We are people screaming in the desert

Sandman929 · August 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.

You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.

You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.

That seems optimistic to say they keep a list. Seems more like we're just reporting problems and every now and then one of them gets seen by someone who can do something, but that's very rare.

Tenthirty2 · August 2022

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

@Rishikesa108 , there is also a Bug Reporting forum in case you were unaware: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports

If my computer did not work and I asked you for a solution, you would reply: "Did you plug the computer in?"
LOL

Uh huh...
If you had read through that forum that I linked instead of tapping out a snarky reply you would find that ZoS DOES reply to bug reports there...

Is everything in a nice tidy little list that is updated each day for you? No, it is not.

If you spend some time reading you will likely find the answers you seek.
And if you don't, then report your issue so it gets visibility.

Do I sometimes wish we got full disclosure of everything that was going on? Sure.
But as customers we get what they decide we get and what is relevant. Read the bug reports forum, read the patch notes, read the dev tracker, a lot of info there.
If you expect more than that then you'll keep screaming in the desert and no one will pay attention anymore.

Oh and by the way, one of the first roles I had in IT was technical support.
So yes, if all you came to me with is that "My computer does not work." and gave me no other useful info then yes, I would tell you to check your power cords.

And I can tell you the number of times that actually WAS the cause of the problem is higher than many would believe.

Carcamongus · August 2022

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's obvious the devs have to stick to a timetable and creation takes precedence over correction, since the former has a deadline, whereas the latter doesn't. It's too easy - and probably incorrect - to say the devs are indifferent to all these problems. Could they instead, despite their best efforts, be struggling to handle all the work?

IMHO the correction should take precedence over creation, for some time. If someone did a survey about preferring a new game-extension or stopping a few months but fixing 90% of the bugs in the game ... guess what would prevail?

What I said was how I saw things, but you're right. Many people have said throughout the years they'd rather have bug fixes than new content and I agree with them. Say, release only a chapter and a dungeon DLC and spend the rest of the time fixing what's broken and implementing changes people actually asked for. Putting the game in proper shape will also alllow devs to spend less time fixing bugs, meaning more time for new content. Granted, doing this would dent revenue, but it's a sacrifice that'll allow the game to last much longer.

opalcity · August 2022

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

@Rishikesa108 , there is also a Bug Reporting forum in case you were unaware: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports

If my computer did not work and I asked you for a solution, you would reply: "Did you plug the computer in?"
LOL

You think you're joking, but that's a weekly conversation for anyone who works in tech support.

Hurbster · August 2022

The Screaming Desert sounds like an area in Moorcock's Young Kingdom's world (Elric).

Brrrofski · August 2022

It doesn't always need an action attached to it.

Sometimes a "thanks for raising, we'll make sure the correct team is aware" is fine.

"Listening to players" can mean two things.

They take their feedback and do something with it.

And

They track what players are saying and acknowledge their comments.

The latter is a serious issue with ZOS.

As an example, a thread about the brightness setting on new consoles resetting went 6 months before a single comment for ZOS. So for 6 months, it felt like nobody at ZOS even knew. Or that they even cared.

While it might be that they did know, were working on it, but it's a bit complicated and will take time.

As a customer, those scenarios give me a very different experience.

As someone who works in a sort of PR role, sometimes not having the RIGHT answer is fine, as long as you actually give an answer. And sometimes a "we'll look into it" is absolutely fine. At least you feel like something might be fixed at some point. Without it, it feels like there's no attempt to engage at all.

I get that it's a mod's job to mainly mod the forum. But it can't be that hard to have a spreadsheet that gives a link to threads about bugs, that is then sent to a central point, and that person spends 15-20 mins a week just replying to the thread, saying "thanks for making us aware". It seems crazy that if someone is reading the threads for one reason, but ignore something else about it.

It's so frustrating to see a ZOS account has posted, and you think that finally someone will acknowledge what is a real frustrating, only to see it's a reminder about being polite and accepted behaviours, is actually demoralising. It comes across like ZOS doesn't want to acknowledge it.

You could even give mods a copy and paste template, like the violations ones, that says "thanks for flagging, I've added it to our weekly round up of threads about bugs that will be passed on to our dev team". I honestly feel like it's really not hard and will go a long way to ease a lot of frustrations. It's a quick and easy win.

Destyran · August 2022

It’s wild there’s still away to kill a boss by making him. Stand on flames or cheese crocs by tanking in a certain place and you report it it’s still not fixed. Even the place you can kill NPCs with no guards.

Rishikesa108 · August 2022

Two examples.
1) Books. Lorebooks. Eidetic memory. There is an encyclopedia on this topic on this forum, but ZOS fixes a book every 3 months, but breaks 5 more. People scream and moan in the desert. No reply. For years, many years.

2)These days the Shoulders and Head of Encratis Behemoth have come out and are bugged. Nobody can eat them. Two threads have been opened on the forum (bug section). ZOS's only intervention was to ask "Are you sure you haven't known them already?" obviously it was impossible, since they were new items. The bug persists, people may have spent virtual money (keys) to buy them and have no answers. Will they fix them? maybe yes ... but no communication came out, neither about if nor when.

These are just 2 examples. But the list is very long.

kalabakk · August 2022

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.

You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.

You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.

This is your isolated opinion :-) Thanks for that

It's not isolated at all. Everything stated there is accurate. It reads to me like it was written by someone who has dealt with the reality of software coding, project management, and public relations (I've worked in that field, and that's the reality of it). Dismissing them simply because you don't like them doesn't help matters.

I do agree that we need better communication, but there needs to be a happy medium. The level of communication we get now feels quite low. I understand that they can't give us detailed descriptions of everything in the queue or future updates. But we could certainly do with something. Even high level thoughts on what they'd like to do with the game, items they are investigating, and so forth would at least give us the impression that our concerns aren't simply being ignored. They can put as many disclaimers as they want around timeframes, etc. and I'd be fine with that.

kalabakk · August 2022

Sandman929 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.

You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.

You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.

That seems optimistic to say they keep a list. Seems more like we're just reporting problems and every now and then one of them gets seen by someone who can do something, but that's very rare.

Just because we're not seeing the list doesn't mean it's non-existent. Think about it from the flip side. Would you want to publish a list of every single thing that's wrong with your product? Yes, it would be nice to have some updates on major problems, even to just say they are investigating it, but to list out every single problem is putting their own product in a bad light.

Rugby_hook · August 2022

kalabakk wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.

You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.

You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.

That seems optimistic to say they keep a list. Seems more like we're just reporting problems and every now and then one of them gets seen by someone who can do something, but that's very rare.

Just because we're not seeing the list doesn't mean it's non-existent. Think about it from the flip side. Would you want to publish a list of every single thing that's wrong with your product? Yes, it would be nice to have some updates on major problems, even to just say they are investigating it, but to list out every single problem is putting their own product in a bad light.

Disagree that it puts it in bad light. Coming from a person who has expertise in communication, and particularly social media communication, these types are statements and acknowledgements are usually viewed favorably. Everyone understands no product is perfect, so when companies are open and honest about glitches/bugs AND show that they are working on them, it provides a level of trust in the community and tends to foster good will.

When instead there are lists of bugs (the forums) that haven't been acknowledged, it gives the impression the company either is indifferent to the community, fixing the issues, or both. The silence around issues puts the product in bad light.

ZOS_Kevin · August 2022

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin for your kind answer.
As you can read from many posts, many people would very much like a simple list of bugs awaiting repair, which is updated with the ever new known bugs and obviously contains a lot of "FIXED" about the fixed bugs. We know that no one is a god and therefore it takes time, work, effort and commitment to fix everything. But a simple answer of acknowledgment, awareness and scheduling of reported bugs, would be a great, great improvement.
So that we don't have to feel like people screaming in the desert ... give us this simple but useful gift.

So just for some context here, we have looked at this idea and would like to implement something like this in the future. However, we want to make sure it's something that we could do well and constantly maintain. Keeping track of bug lists are a large undertaking. But we are still keeping a bug list top of mind as we think about more ways to get information out to players and the infrastructure needed for maintain said list.

JKorr · August 2022

opalcity wrote: »

If my computer did not work and I asked you for a solution, you would reply: "Did you plug the computer in?"
LOL

My coworker called the tech support desk. They had reorganized the furniture and moved their desk and pc in their office. They were loudly declaring the pc didn't work and it was working earlier before they moved everything so a tech had to come IMMEDIATELY to fix it. They didn't want to hear any suggestions about checking anything themselves. When a tech did come down to "fix" the problem, it was discovered my coworker had two surge supressors, and had managed to plug them both into each other. Neither one was plugged into the power outlet on the wall.... The problem was eradicated instantly when the tech unplugged one of the surge suppressors, and actually plugged it into the wall outlet. Coworker never did live that down.

Yes, "Check the power cords" is a valid troubleshooting request.

oregonrob · August 2022

The underlying issue here is communication that has spilled over in the bug reports. Personally, I have found when I report bugs, that when I have not jumped the gun or misunderstood what was going on, in general, those bugs have been addressed and sometimes I get closure through a message.

However we are all going through an update that for the most part, is not popular. Some of the changes fall under the saying "if it is not broke, don't fix it", which frustrates a number of us. Others were communicated to the developers during the PTS stage that they would cause more problems than they would fix but they were still implemented. Overall there has been mostly at best, partial explanations about why the many of the changes in Update 35 were done. This causes gamers to come up with their own scenarios which range from incompetence of the coders, ( which I personally do not believe) to developers creating a game for their own playing style and everything in-between.

ZoS needs to do a better job at communicating. For example, they need to tell the gamers that as it is being used now, PTS is a beta testing platform and not a development platform. By the time it gets to PTS there are only going to be tweaks rather than overhauls. When there is a large pushback, on a topic, whether it is the sneaking of wood elves being taken away, the nerfing of vampires, making achievements account wide, or the the replacing good animations for jabs and flurry with clunky animations, those issues need to be addressed and fixed. Ignoring them leads us to where we are today. Developers need to understand that gamers feel ownership of the game and without gamers to play it, a game dies.

Finally, EOS is not a shark that has to always be moving or it will die. It is more like a dragon and sometimes dragons need to sleep (work on fixing bugs, performance issues, and addressing customer (gamer) issues instead of releasing another DLC). For marketing purposes, additional new story lines for the guilds for one year instead of issuing a DLC, while working on performance, might be a way to go.

SaffronCitrusflower · August 2022

oregonrob wrote: »

The u....

Finally, EOS is not a shark that has to always be moving or it will die. It is more like a dragon and sometimes dragons need to sleep (work on fixing bugs, performance issues, and addressing customer (gamer) issues instead of releasing another DLC). For marketing purposes, additional new story lines for the guilds for one year instead of issuing a DLC, while working on performance, might be a way to go.

Far too often it seems like ZOS is Smaug sitting on all their gold in the bowels of the mountain. I say this because they sure don't invest in more server capacity for PvP or anything really to bring back PvP, and High Isle was, well, not much by comparison to past chapter releases.

Kingsindarkness · August 2022

Hurbster wrote: »

The Screaming Desert sounds like an area in Moorcock's Young Kingdom's world (Elric).

Wasn't there a screaming Desert?

Oh well I just guess I'll have to go back and reread all the Elric sagas to make sure there isn't.

Araneae6537 · September 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.

You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.

You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.

I would have rather ZOS taken the year to do this! I am not aware of any change this year for the better anyway. (Disclaimer: I don’t have High Isle and haven’t been following combat changes as closely since the whole accountwide achievements and the handling thereof really soured me.)

Turtle_Bot · September 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.

You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.

You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.

Except the vast majority of the community wouldn't care as long as proper communication was put in place. For example, creating a bug tracker, and keeping it up to date with simple notes on the tracker that states "we are currently looking into this issue and are working on ways to fix it." Combined with simple progress update notes such as "this issue is more complicated than we were anticipating and are still finding a way to fix it without causing other issues." or "we think we are close to finding a suitable solution and working on implementing it." See Minecraft's Bug tracker as an example of how such a thing can be done.

In fact, doing something as simple as this would not only be good PR for the company, it would bring back the majority of the trust that has been steadily broken over the years.

The issue with your statement is that it assumes that a verbal acknowledgement of an issue is the same as a verbal agreement that that issue will be fixed immediately, which is completely wrong. Verbal acknowledgement of an issue means that they are aware of it and are working on a fix and communicating that with their customers (us players). A fix that will take as long as it takes to fix the issue and that is where clear and concise communication helps to turn this issue from being bad PR into good PR.

If there are that many issues that there are not enough staff to fix them while also creating new content, then they need to hire more engineering/technical staff or perhaps put some of the more technical aspects of the new content on hold and divert some of those resources into fixing bugs/issues.

As an example, instead of the combat team working on the largely disastrous U35 combat changes, maybe delay those for a patch or 2 to communicate those changes better and allow time to get more solid evidence based feedback for those changes and get that team to work on fixing existing combat bugs (such as the permanent combat bug in pvp instances, or the bugs associated with gap closers that don't work in lag, or the positional desync/lag back bugs from knock back/knock into the air abilities, or the health bar desync from specific abilities such as snipe, overload, etc) or even have the team work on finishing existing combat changes they started, but are yet to finish implementing, changes such as hybridisation or going even further back to changes such as finishing the adjusting of abilities to scale off of weapon/spell damage instead of max stats.

Yes, the devs have a big "To Do" list, but most of that list is of their own making. They also aren't doing themselves any favors by only half completing projects (hybridisation, changing damage to scale off damage instead of max stats, etc), ignoring game breaking bugs (abilities not working, desyncs, lag/performance, etc), refusing to do regular maintenance (server upgrades that should be done every few years, not once every decade) in favor of introducing more and more content because it's "easier".

As someone who has done a lot of projects, it astonishes me at how often Zos only half completes things they have introduced over the years. If I were to do that in my line of work, not only would I not get paid, I would be out of work so fast and unable to get any future work either.

Ittrix · September 2022

Whether they do or don't, I think a very large portion of this community (knowingly or not) thinks ZoS either doesn't listen or is very lax when fixing bugs.

An example'd probably be the maelstrom staff. It's been bugged a few times. The big one I remember was when it didn't work with elf bane after it's big buff. Wall of fire was extended and the maelstrom staff's effect was not.
There were dozens of bug reports immediately after this went onto the PTS. Elf bane was THE meta set at the time, and of course maelstrom inferno staff was THE meta item before it didn't work with elf bane. Every magDK wanted to use this set combination because it was the meta for them.

Here's a question for everyone: When they found maelstrom was bugged on the PTS, did they say to use or not use the maelstrom staff on build websites? I mean, it was a bug that people caught on to very early. Since people think ZoS takes care of important issues, surely they shrugged off the idea that the maelstrom staff would still be bugged when it went live, right?
... right?
I think everyone has already guessed this, but no, the maelstrom staff was not fixed by the time it went live. And no, players were not shocked and didn't have to change their recommended builds because everyone assumed it wouldn't be fixed and said to use the asylum staff instead.

Actions speak louder than words. Player actions pretty clearly said they either didn't expect ZoS to listen or didn't expect them to fix it in a timely manner.

It really doesn't help that ZoS very rarely communicates with us.
Is the removal of the troll leap in Sanctum Ophidia a stopgap solution or a permanent one? I'unno.
ZoS claims they fixed the hel ra softlock which was ongoing for five years, but they didn't. Are they aware of this? Are they working on fixing it? I'unno.
Is trading crowns for gold Allowed? Well, we do know that one. Sorta. ZoS has never outright said 'yes', but they *have* said separately that you can trade ingame items for other ingame items, and that gold and the things crowns can buy are considered ingame items. Past that? I'unno.
Whenever a bunch of innocent players were accused of gold duping awhile back, for a week the question of 'hey is ZoS looking into this' only had the answer of Iunno. Probably not, since every time I make a post it gets deleted and every time I email them a bot tells me I'm guilty and nothing'll change. They did eventually answer them, though they made dang sure to iterate that it was company policy not to discuss ban decisions on forums and that it wouldn't happen again.
It's a trend.

Rishikesa108 · September 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin for your kind answer.
As you can read from many posts, many people would very much like a simple list of bugs awaiting repair, which is updated with the ever new known bugs and obviously contains a lot of "FIXED" about the fixed bugs. We know that no one is a god and therefore it takes time, work, effort and commitment to fix everything. But a simple answer of acknowledgment, awareness and scheduling of reported bugs, would be a great, great improvement.
So that we don't have to feel like people screaming in the desert ... give us this simple but useful gift.

So just for some context here, we have looked at this idea and would like to implement something like this in the future. However, we want to make sure it's something that we could do well and constantly maintain. Keeping track of bug lists are a large undertaking. But we are still keeping a bug list top of mind as we think about more ways to get information out to players and the infrastructure needed for maintain said list.

I'm taking this as a promise :-)))

JKorr · September 2022

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin for your kind answer.
As you can read from many posts, many people would very much like a simple list of bugs awaiting repair, which is updated with the ever new known bugs and obviously contains a lot of "FIXED" about the fixed bugs. We know that no one is a god and therefore it takes time, work, effort and commitment to fix everything. But a simple answer of acknowledgment, awareness and scheduling of reported bugs, would be a great, great improvement.
So that we don't have to feel like people screaming in the desert ... give us this simple but useful gift.

So just for some context here, we have looked at this idea and would like to implement something like this in the future. However, we want to make sure it's something that we could do well and constantly maintain. Keeping track of bug lists are a large undertaking. But we are still keeping a bug list top of mind as we think about more ways to get information out to players and the infrastructure needed for maintain said list.

I'm taking this as a promise :-)))

And.....that is where problems start. People reading what an official type person says and interpreting it to fit their own bias/idea when it doesn't really do that.

There was no promise. "We have looked at this idea and would like to implement "something" like this in the future." does not in any way imply they will actually manage to do this. They may try. However, I'm going to guess they don't want to start this idea and find they don't have the time or enough people to keep a constant vigil on a bug list. If they would start a list and find it is too labor intensive to maintain it, well....Divines help them when they stop. The outraged ranting would instantly start, with OMG, TEH DEVS LIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ZOS HATES THEIR PLAYERS!!!!, DISRESPECTFUL AND DISGRACEFUL DEVS and so on. They know what happens when a maintenance period runs over the guesstimate they gave.

Jaraal · September 2022

JKorr wrote: »

There was no promise. "We have looked at this idea and would like to implement "something" like this in the future." does not in any way imply they will actually manage to do this. They may try. However, I'm going to guess they don't want to start this idea and find they don't have the time or enough people to keep a constant vigil on a bug list.

And that's why you see the same bug topics popping up in the forums over and over again. Because there's no acknowledgement that they are working on it, plan on working on it in the future, or even know it exists. If they actually had a public bug list, they could direct every new thread about Bug X, Bug Y, and Bug Z to the list to at least acknowledge that is, in fact, on the list. And for extra communication points, they could state where they are in the fixing timeline.

It's a win-win situation.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2022

kargen27 · September 2022

Carcamongus wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's obvious the devs have to stick to a timetable and creation takes precedence over correction, since the former has a deadline, whereas the latter doesn't. It's too easy - and probably incorrect - to say the devs are indifferent to all these problems. Could they instead, despite their best efforts, be struggling to handle all the work?

IMHO the correction should take precedence over creation, for some time. If someone did a survey about preferring a new game-extension or stopping a few months but fixing 90% of the bugs in the game ... guess what would prevail?

What I said was how I saw things, but you're right. Many people have said throughout the years they'd rather have bug fixes than new content and I agree with them. Say, release only a chapter and a dungeon DLC and spend the rest of the time fixing what's broken and implementing changes people actually asked for. Putting the game in proper shape will also alllow devs to spend less time fixing bugs, meaning more time for new content. Granted, doing this would dent revenue, but it's a sacrifice that'll allow the game to last much longer.

Thing is they can do both. The team creating new content isn't the same team chasing down bugs. Different skill sets are involved.

Ittrix · September 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

It's obvious the devs have to stick to a timetable and creation takes precedence over correction, since the former has a deadline, whereas the latter doesn't. It's too easy - and probably incorrect - to say the devs are indifferent to all these problems. Could they instead, despite their best efforts, be struggling to handle all the work?

IMHO the correction should take precedence over creation, for some time. If someone did a survey about preferring a new game-extension or stopping a few months but fixing 90% of the bugs in the game ... guess what would prevail?

What I said was how I saw things, but you're right. Many people have said throughout the years they'd rather have bug fixes than new content and I agree with them. Say, release only a chapter and a dungeon DLC and spend the rest of the time fixing what's broken and implementing changes people actually asked for. Putting the game in proper shape will also alllow devs to spend less time fixing bugs, meaning more time for new content. Granted, doing this would dent revenue, but it's a sacrifice that'll allow the game to last much longer.

Thing is they can do both. The team creating new content isn't the same team chasing down bugs. Different skill sets are involved.

Yes, but no.
They are different teams. Obviously we aren't saying to make those team members do something about the bugs.
More money and people could still be funneled towards bug fixing though.

A dev said this same cheeky-ish response and all the youtubers immediately jumped on board to flame them once.

Ittrix · September 2022

JKorr wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin for your kind answer.
As you can read from many posts, many people would very much like a simple list of bugs awaiting repair, which is updated with the ever new known bugs and obviously contains a lot of "FIXED" about the fixed bugs. We know that no one is a god and therefore it takes time, work, effort and commitment to fix everything. But a simple answer of acknowledgment, awareness and scheduling of reported bugs, would be a great, great improvement.
So that we don't have to feel like people screaming in the desert ... give us this simple but useful gift.

So just for some context here, we have looked at this idea and would like to implement something like this in the future. However, we want to make sure it's something that we could do well and constantly maintain. Keeping track of bug lists are a large undertaking. But we are still keeping a bug list top of mind as we think about more ways to get information out to players and the infrastructure needed for maintain said list.

I'm taking this as a promise :-)))

And.....that is where problems start. People reading what an official type person says and interpreting it to fit their own bias/idea when it doesn't really do that.

There was no promise. "We have looked at this idea and would like to implement "something" like this in the future." does not in any way imply they will actually manage to do this. They may try. However, I'm going to guess they don't want to start this idea and find they don't have the time or enough people to keep a constant vigil on a bug list. If they would start a list and find it is too labor intensive to maintain it, well....Divines help them when they stop. The outraged ranting would instantly start, with OMG, TEH DEVS LIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ZOS HATES THEIR PLAYERS!!!!, DISRESPECTFUL AND DISGRACEFUL DEVS and so on. They know what happens when a maintenance period runs over the guesstimate they gave.

This doesn't sit right with me...

If they never promise anything then players can't be mad that they didn't uphold their promises?
... shouldn't there be promises? Shouldn't that accountability be there? When something needs doing, they ought to say they will do it. And if they don't? They ought to say sorry. They shouldn't purposefully be leaving themselves an out of "oh well we said we *might!*"

N00BxV1 · September 2022

merpins · September 2022

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.

You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.

You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.

This is your isolated opinion :-) Thanks for that

I can be both. And it probably is both.

JKorr · September 2022

Ittrix wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin for your kind answer.
As you can read from many posts, many people would very much like a simple list of bugs awaiting repair, which is updated with the ever new known bugs and obviously contains a lot of "FIXED" about the fixed bugs. We know that no one is a god and therefore it takes time, work, effort and commitment to fix everything. But a simple answer of acknowledgment, awareness and scheduling of reported bugs, would be a great, great improvement.
So that we don't have to feel like people screaming in the desert ... give us this simple but useful gift.

So just for some context here, we have looked at this idea and would like to implement something like this in the future. However, we want to make sure it's something that we could do well and constantly maintain. Keeping track of bug lists are a large undertaking. But we are still keeping a bug list top of mind as we think about more ways to get information out to players and the infrastructure needed for maintain said list.

I'm taking this as a promise :-)))

And.....that is where problems start. People reading what an official type person says and interpreting it to fit their own bias/idea when it doesn't really do that.

There was no promise. "We have looked at this idea and would like to implement "something" like this in the future." does not in any way imply they will actually manage to do this. They may try. However, I'm going to guess they don't want to start this idea and find they don't have the time or enough people to keep a constant vigil on a bug list. If they would start a list and find it is too labor intensive to maintain it, well....Divines help them when they stop. The outraged ranting would instantly start, with OMG, TEH DEVS LIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ZOS HATES THEIR PLAYERS!!!!, DISRESPECTFUL AND DISGRACEFUL DEVS and so on. They know what happens when a maintenance period runs over the guesstimate they gave.

This doesn't sit right with me...

If they never promise anything then players can't be mad that they didn't uphold their promises?
... shouldn't there be promises? Shouldn't that accountability be there? When something needs doing, they ought to say they will do it. And if they don't? They ought to say sorry. They shouldn't purposefully be leaving themselves an out of "oh well we said we *might!*"

No, not really. For the sake of lawsuits and sanity they really shouldn't chisel in granite promises about anything. Things happen; software glitches, coders make mistakes, systems conflict, tech isn't able to support the feature, and basically, organic bovine-produced fertilizer results. Add in the chaos of players, and sometimes promises can't be kept. They promised a justice system, implemented the first part, and then found they couldn't implement the second part because they couldn't find a way the players wouldn't instantly exploit, which would ruin the game for many people. Many times we, the players, are why we can't have nice things. And yes, there have been threats of class action lawsuits because someone was upset about something about the game.

Ittrix · September 2022

JKorr wrote: »

Ittrix wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin for your kind answer.
As you can read from many posts, many people would very much like a simple list of bugs awaiting repair, which is updated with the ever new known bugs and obviously contains a lot of "FIXED" about the fixed bugs. We know that no one is a god and therefore it takes time, work, effort and commitment to fix everything. But a simple answer of acknowledgment, awareness and scheduling of reported bugs, would be a great, great improvement.
So that we don't have to feel like people screaming in the desert ... give us this simple but useful gift.

So just for some context here, we have looked at this idea and would like to implement something like this in the future. However, we want to make sure it's something that we could do well and constantly maintain. Keeping track of bug lists are a large undertaking. But we are still keeping a bug list top of mind as we think about more ways to get information out to players and the infrastructure needed for maintain said list.

I'm taking this as a promise :-)))

And.....that is where problems start. People reading what an official type person says and interpreting it to fit their own bias/idea when it doesn't really do that.

There was no promise. "We have looked at this idea and would like to implement "something" like this in the future." does not in any way imply they will actually manage to do this. They may try. However, I'm going to guess they don't want to start this idea and find they don't have the time or enough people to keep a constant vigil on a bug list. If they would start a list and find it is too labor intensive to maintain it, well....Divines help them when they stop. The outraged ranting would instantly start, with OMG, TEH DEVS LIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ZOS HATES THEIR PLAYERS!!!!, DISRESPECTFUL AND DISGRACEFUL DEVS and so on. They know what happens when a maintenance period runs over the guesstimate they gave.

This doesn't sit right with me...

If they never promise anything then players can't be mad that they didn't uphold their promises?
... shouldn't there be promises? Shouldn't that accountability be there? When something needs doing, they ought to say they will do it. And if they don't? They ought to say sorry. They shouldn't purposefully be leaving themselves an out of "oh well we said we *might!*"

No, not really. For the sake of lawsuits and sanity they really shouldn't chisel in granite promises about anything. Things happen; software glitches, coders make mistakes, systems conflict, tech isn't able to support the feature, and basically, organic bovine-produced fertilizer results. Add in the chaos of players, and sometimes promises can't be kept. They promised a justice system, implemented the first part, and then found they couldn't implement the second part because they couldn't find a way the players wouldn't instantly exploit, which would ruin the game for many people. Many times we, the players, are why we can't have nice things. And yes, there have been threats of class action lawsuits because someone was upset about something about the game.

I would rather they say they do something and don't than dance around the idea of doing something for years and years while never saying anything solid about anything. I'm sure they can find a way to say they will do something without getting sued when they don't because things do indeed happen.