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We are people screaming in the desert
Rishikesa108
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The forum is full of people who report bugs, who complain of malfunctions, who document even long-standing problems ... but ZOS does not intervene. The moderators only intervene to close threads or to punish those who violate the rules and cut unseemly pieces. Very rarely does anyone say that the bug has been noticed and will be fixed in the near future...
Man did not weave the web of life – he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.
You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.
You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!37 -
Rishikesa108✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.
You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.
You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.
This is your isolated opinion :-) Thanks for thatEdited by Rishikesa108 on August 30, 2022 5:07PMMan did not weave the web of life – he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself30 -
Gandalf_72✭✭✭✭7 Agree a 1 Awesome for now, shortly after opening this thread.
At the moment, the majority seems to agree with @Rishikesa108 more than against.
Edit after this post:
I wrote too soon ...
After my post was mocked, later many other people have written expressing themselves in favor by confirming that this topic is considered important by many players ...
I probably should have just shut up and wait instead of just counting the first appreciations.
I have the utmost respect even for those who disagree, but discontent EXISTS and it is not right that it be underestimated and belittled as I saw in posts number #2 and #5 and others.
I don't understand what you get by defending ZOS against players like you and us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not an enemy of ZOS and I love ESO, but if there are any problems that, if solved, would improve the game, I do not understand the advantage of fighting and trolling those who try to report them with the purpose to have a collaboration from ZOS.
In fact, then, ZOS responded positively and I am very happy about this:
Edited by Gandalf_72 on August 31, 2022 4:53PMPC | EU- My ESO gallery
- Tamriel: The Elder Scrolls Online (by Ra'Shtar)
- ESO pics (by sean.plackerb14_ESO)
- ESO is stunningly beautiful
- ESO Beauty Pageant
- Show your character!
- People choosing to play the game differently to you are not wrong, bad, stupid or playing too much, or too little. They are just playing it differently to you, they don't need you to "correct" them. No one is playing the game wrong unless they are cheating or hurting others.
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alternatelder✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gandalf_72 wrote: »7 Agree a 1 Awesome for now, shortly after opening this thread.
At the moment, the majority seems to agree with @Rishikesa108 more than against.
216 views. Is 7 agrees (9 now) really what you consider to be the majority?Rishikesa108 wrote: »You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.
You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.
You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.
This is your isolated opinion :-) Thanks for that
More of an actual fact than an opinion.10 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It might be nice to at least have a "known issues" list that is kept up to date. If a bug is already known, I won't feel the need to report it so it saves player time and dev time as it's hopefully less sifting through reports. I assume the bug report system is already a pile of near useless information with a few gems they can actually gain some info from.
I've reported many bugs. I can only assume the reports were read and the bug was acknowledged internally, but I have no clue. Do I report it again 3 months later? A year later? How often do I update bug reports? We have no clue if the reports are even taken seriously. They may just toss a LOT of them aside for various reasons. Who knows? A known issues list could help with this, but they have probably mentioned reasons why they don't do it in the past.13 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭And the funny thing is a lot of these things are surface level issues that are picked up with like the bare minimum of play testing. The frustration of trying get a second legion jack style page from the grab bag during MYM is a prime example. It took all of 30 seconds for me to ask why they didn't do a coffer for specific styles instead of having like 30 different rewards in the one bag. Like what even is the dev team doing? Things like this aren't a lot of work to implement but their absence really upsets players leads to the perception that they don't care. Why do we still not have a minimap on console? Why is there no option to view your character and zoom in on them when changing styles, costumes and earrings?10 -
The_Boggart✭✭✭✭In rlse 34 they had an attempt at fixing a 5 Yr bug in bangkorai. They actually almost fixed it still waiting for the final solution.0
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ZOS_KevinCommunity Manager@Rishikesa108 The mods job is to moderate the forum. If they see trends with bugs, they to report, but if you want assistance with bugs, please ping myself or another community manager. We send the bugs we see noted to the dev team for them to tackle as they can. And we follow up when the Dev team has solutions or updates on progress. We understand there are bugs players are encountering. These do take time to address and resolve, especially between launch cycles for PC and console. Thanks for your continued patience.Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter29 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭adapt to change. Don't think about the bad - be above it.
And don't forget - it's just a video game.5 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adapt to change. Don't think about the bad - be above it.
And don't forget - it's just a video game.
Part of the original post is asking for better communication regarding bug reports. Communication is a good thing and ZOS could definitely improve on that aspect. Suggesting people ignore that is a noble request, but without pushing for change, you'll never see it.
Suggesting to ZOS that they could better communicate bug reports, acknowledgement and potentially a timeline for fixes in a constructive way shouldn't be discouraged. Suggesting players should just accept the current situation is the path to stagnation and player apathy over time.8 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
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every patch note ZOS fix a lot of bugs, if you read those notes. You may not have encountered them, but they are there.redspecter23 wrote: »Suggesting to ZOS that they could better communicate bug reports
Also, they fix real bugs, not stuff like "remove dark convergence ASAP cuz i don't like it" etc.5 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
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every patch note ZOS fix a lot of bugs, if you read those notes. You may not have encountered them, but they are there.redspecter23 wrote: »Suggesting to ZOS that they could better communicate bug reports
Also, they fix real bugs, not stuff like "remove dark convergence ASAP cuz i don't like it" etc.
Absolutely. I'm not suggesting they never fix anything. They do. However, they also introduce new bugs, which is to be expected of course. How many people need to report a broken world boss in High Isle? Is ZOS aware that boss is broken? I assume they are, but since we're going on 3 months now, we're left to wonder. And that's a rather obvious bug that has been around for a relatively short time.
ZOS has asked previously how they can improve communication. They have literally asked for this feedback. It isn't out of the ordinary to suggest ways to help with that request.6 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rishikesa108 wrote: »You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.
You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.
You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.
This is your isolated opinion :-) Thanks for that
Not quite so isolated.
Have you ever noticed what happens with the maintenance notices? They give a time frame, like 6 a.m. to 10 a.m.; and at approximately 10:00:45 the OMG ZOS SAID 10 A.M. WHY ISN'T THE SERVER UP YET??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! and OMG ANOTHER EXTENDED MAINTENANCE, WHY ZOS WHY DO YOU HATE THE PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!! and so on shows up on the forums. Happens quite frequently, really. Any time they give a time and because computers are computers stuff out of human control happens, they hear about it.Edited by JKorr on August 30, 2022 7:19PM12 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
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every patch note ZOS fix a lot of bugs, if you read those notes. You may not have encountered them, but they are there.redspecter23 wrote: »Suggesting to ZOS that they could better communicate bug reports
Also, they fix real bugs, not stuff like "remove dark convergence ASAP cuz i don't like it" etc.
To say that's what people mean when they say fix bugs is bad faith and disingenuous. Take sub assault and scorch for example. On the last boss of VDSR they straight up don't hit the boss. That's one of warden's hardest hitting skills and it just does nothing 9.8 times out of ten on that boss. All it would have taken was a SINGLE tester UNO, UNE, UM, EINS tester with a warden on there and that would have been spotted when logs are looked at. The vma staff not working when you bar swap is a snafu of the most epic proportion. This a new weapon functionality that you're including and you can't even be bothered to barswap and make sure it works properly before signing off on it? Really? It's just frustrating. If a player playing as a hobby can pick up on these things immediately why can't trained progressions do so when they have access to the software for weeks and months?12 -
danthemann5✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rishikesa108 wrote: »The forum is full of people who report bugs, who complain of malfunctions, who document even long-standing problems ... but ZOS does not intervene. The moderators only intervene to close threads or to punish those who violate the rules and cut unseemly pieces. Very rarely does anyone say that the bug has been noticed and will be fixed in the near future...
Exactly one thing, and one thing only matters, and that is REVENUE.
Until and unless a problem affects revenue, it is on the very bottom of the priority list. This is a simple fact of life in most corporations.ZeniMax has no obligation to correct any errors or defects in the Services.
Greetings! We've closed this thread due to its non-constructive nature.
"You know you don't have to be here right?" - ZOS_RichLambert7 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭danthemann5 wrote: »Rishikesa108 wrote: »The forum is full of people who report bugs, who complain of malfunctions, who document even long-standing problems ... but ZOS does not intervene. The moderators only intervene to close threads or to punish those who violate the rules and cut unseemly pieces. Very rarely does anyone say that the bug has been noticed and will be fixed in the near future...
Exactly one thing, and one thing only matters, and that is REVENUE.
Until and unless a problem affects revenue, it is on the very bottom of the priority list. This is a simple fact of life in most corporations.
This is is an oversimplification imo. Bugs aren't fun. Fixing bugs therefore improves the player experience. Improving the player experience increases revenue.
For example, take something like Mara's Balm. It is currently healing on an effect reapplication, not just when an effect ends. Hopefully this is a bug, and not the intended design of the set (because that would be stupid). Every single player who looked at this set reported it and talked about how unhealthy it would be during the PTS (and pretty early on in the PTS I might add). Right now, PvP is downright unfun against someone running that set, and I know just based on talking to those in my guild that a lot of people aren't playing in Cyro or doing BG pugs until it's fixed. Those players are revenue lost, even if its not immediately apparent. Had ZOS fixed the set during the PTS cycle, then those players would be playing right now.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on August 30, 2022 8:05PM4 -
danthemann5✭✭✭✭✭
✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »danthemann5 wrote: »Rishikesa108 wrote: »The forum is full of people who report bugs, who complain of malfunctions, who document even long-standing problems ... but ZOS does not intervene. The moderators only intervene to close threads or to punish those who violate the rules and cut unseemly pieces. Very rarely does anyone say that the bug has been noticed and will be fixed in the near future...
Exactly one thing, and one thing only matters, and that is REVENUE.
Until and unless a problem affects revenue, it is on the very bottom of the priority list. This is a simple fact of life in most corporations.
This is is an oversimplification imo. Bugs aren't fun. Fixing bugs therefore improves the player experience. Improving the player experience increases revenue.
For example, take something like Mara's Balm. It is currently healing on an effect reapplication, not just when an effect ends. Hopefully this is a bug, and not the intended design of the set (because that would be stupid). Every single player who looked at this set reported it and talked about how unhealthy it would be during the PTS (and pretty early on in the PTS I might add). Right now, PvP is downright unfun against someone running that set, and I know just based on talking to those in my guild that a lot of people aren't playing in Cyro or doing BG pugs until it's fixed. Those players are revenue lost, even if its not immediately apparent. Had ZOS fixed the set during the PTS cycle, then those players would be playing right now.
And they've announced they're going to make an adjustment (belatedly), which, to your point, also proves my point.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7695753#Comment_7695753
Of course, we don't know what that adjustment will be, as it could range from making the set even more powerful to making it completely worthless.Edited by danthemann5 on August 30, 2022 8:21PMZeniMax has no obligation to correct any errors or defects in the Services.
Greetings! We've closed this thread due to its non-constructive nature.
"You know you don't have to be here right?" - ZOS_RichLambert0 -
Kingsindarkness✭✭✭✭✭Rishikesa108 wrote: »You could imagine the sheer to-do list the team already has.
You could imagine adding more to it is impractical at times.
You could imagine a Company making verbal acknowledgements that they will do every little thing the community wants could land them in PR Nightmares if they can't deliver in a time the community deems reasonable.
This is your isolated opinion :-) Thanks for that
Not quite so isolated.
Have you ever noticed what happens with the maintenance notices? They give a time frame, like 6 a.m. to 10 a.m.; and at approximately 10:00:45 the OMG ZOS SAID 10 A.M. WHY ISN'T THE SERVER UP YET??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! and OMG ANOTHER EXTENDED MAINTENANCE, WHY ZOS WHY DO YOU HATE THE PLAYERS!!!!!!!!!!! and so on shows up on the forums. Happens quite frequently, really. Any time they give a time and because computers are computers stuff out of human control happens, they hear about it.
Yeah
The screaming in the desert has become more shrill and over the top by the day.
Personally I can't take it seriously any longer if you say anything positive some streamer or his fan base will literally start screaming about your ''Toxic positivity" and these guys are part of the official stream team.
I guess I'm just going to disengage, from these type of threads and stay far away from the end game; giving less oxygen to the negativity is the only rational thing you can do at this point.5 -
Carcamongus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ESO is a huge game, which means the potential for bugs is also huge. While it's reasonable to cut the dev team some slack because, after all, they have to fix the game while developing it at the same time, some questions arise about their priorities. Why was it more important to remove the Flying Horseman of Gonfalon Bay than to fix the Theurges WB or Isobel's duel achievement? Sure, grounding a gravity-defying soldier is easier, but it's hard to avoid raising an eyebrow when one considers it took almost 3 months for Isobel's bug to be fixed and the WB remains broken. Another bug, the one with WB and delve icons showing as black when they should be white, is even older.
It's obvious the devs have to stick to a timetable and creation takes precedence over correction, since the former has a deadline, whereas the latter doesn't. It's too easy - and probably incorrect - to say the devs are indifferent to all these problems. Could they instead, despite their best efforts, be struggling to handle all the work?Imperial DK and Necro tank. PC/NA
"Nothing is so bad that it can't get any worse." (Brazilian saying)1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let's just say I've been playing another AAA MMO in a similar genre as ESO.
Each weekly patch is accompanied by a "Known Issues" post right by the article for the patch notes for that update. Yes, there are some things that have been on there for months (years), but at least we know they're aware of them.
Also, when maintenance does go over (which is rare), we almost always receive a "maintenance extension compensation mail" in the game. It has stuff perhaps equivalent to an Oroborous crate. But it's the gesture that counts.
So, yes, it's possible for a game of the size of ESO to do this. I really wish they did, because I love the world of ESO, the dungeon/trial design/concept is utterly top notch compared (this other MMO doesn't hold a candle to ESO in that realm). I just wish I felt more valued and appreciated as a customer and that I was "let in" on what is actually happening.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger70,730 achievement points15 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adapt to change. Don't think about the bad - be above it.
And don't forget - it's just a video game.
But if players find a bug and exploit it, you can bet it will be fixed right away. And if players tell ZOS “it’s just a video game” and keep doing it, what do you think will happen?
It would be nice if they put the same amount of effort into fixing bugs that have ‘been on the list’ for years, but are still encountered by us every single day.9 -
Rishikesa108✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Carcamongus wrote: »It's obvious the devs have to stick to a timetable and creation takes precedence over correction, since the former has a deadline, whereas the latter doesn't. It's too easy - and probably incorrect - to say the devs are indifferent to all these problems. Could they instead, despite their best efforts, be struggling to handle all the work?
IMHO the correction should take precedence over creation, for some time. If someone did a survey about preferring a new game-extension or stopping a few months but fixing 90% of the bugs in the game ... guess what would prevail?
Man did not weave the web of life – he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself4 -
Tenthirty2✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Rishikesa108 The mods job is to moderate the forum. If they see trends with bugs, they to report, but if you want assistance with bugs, please ping myself or another community manager. We send the bugs we see noted to the dev team for them to tackle as they can. And we follow up when the Dev team has solutions or updates on progress. We understand there are bugs players are encountering. These do take time to address and resolve, especially between launch cycles for PC and console. Thanks for your continued patience.
@Rishikesa108 , there is also a Bug Reporting forum in case you were unaware: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports- "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs - horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
- "When my time comes, I will smile. And that will be all." -Sir Nathain Galien
- IGN: TenThirty2 (PC/PS: NA, PC/PS: EU)
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Rishikesa108✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Rishikesa108 The mods job is to moderate the forum. If they see trends with bugs, they to report, but if you want assistance with bugs, please ping myself or another community manager. We send the bugs we see noted to the dev team for them to tackle as they can. And we follow up when the Dev team has solutions or updates on progress. We understand there are bugs players are encountering. These do take time to address and resolve, especially between launch cycles for PC and console. Thanks for your continued patience.
Thanks @ZOS_Kevin for your kind answer.
As you can read from many posts, many people would very much like a simple list of bugs awaiting repair, which is updated with the ever new known bugs and obviously contains a lot of "FIXED" about the fixed bugs. We know that no one is a god and therefore it takes time, work, effort and commitment to fix everything. But a simple answer of acknowledgment, awareness and scheduling of reported bugs, would be a great, great improvement.
So that we don't have to feel like people screaming in the desert ... give us this simple but useful gift.Man did not weave the web of life – he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself3 -
EldritchSun✭✭✭Carcamongus wrote: »ESO is a huge game, which means the potential for bugs is also huge. While it's reasonable to cut the dev team some slack because, after all, they have to fix the game while developing it at the same time, some questions arise about their priorities. Why was it more important to remove the Flying Horseman of Gonfalon Bay than to fix the Theurges WB or Isobel's duel achievement? Sure, grounding a gravity-defying soldier is easier, but it's hard to avoid raising an eyebrow when one considers it took almost 3 months for Isobel's bug to be fixed and the WB remains broken. Another bug, the one with WB and delve icons showing as black when they should be white, is even older.
It's obvious the devs have to stick to a timetable and creation takes precedence over correction, since the former has a deadline, whereas the latter doesn't. It's too easy - and probably incorrect - to say the devs are indifferent to all these problems. Could they instead, despite their best efforts, be struggling to handle all the work?
Wrothgar museum be like 'Hold my beer'.
The whole situation with bugs and bugfixing is rather frustrating.2 -
Rishikesa108✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tenthirty2 wrote: »@Rishikesa108 , there is also a Bug Reporting forum in case you were unaware: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/bug-reports
If my computer did not work and I asked you for a solution, you would reply: "Did you plug the computer in?"
LOLMan did not weave the web of life – he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself5 -
ZOS_SuserialadminGreetings all,
Please remember that while it’s all right to disagree and debate with each other. Provoking, baiting, inciting, mocking, being rude, antagonizing, or exacerbating a situation. Towards community members, devs, and others is against our forum rules and not in the spirit of our game and is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.
Any questions regarding such please see the Terms of service and Code of Conduct
Terms-Of-Service Code-Of-Conduct
Thank you for your understanding.
Edited by ZOS_Suserial on August 31, 2022 12:26AMThe Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Community Rules | Code-of-Conduct | Terms-of-Service | ESO-Home | ESO-Help0
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