U35 - The Opposite of Accessibility

UrQuan · August 2022

U35 has been live for a week now, and I want to share my experience with it.

For some background, a few years ago I suffered some nerve damage that affects my fingers (it doesn't only affect my fingers, but that's what's relevant here and I don't really feel like going into a lot of detail about it). Initially I basically couldn't play at all (among other things: I also couldn't work or really do anything at first), but I gradually improved and got to the point where I rarely think about the nerve damage and unless I'm having a particularly bas day I can do most things without really noticing it.

Even before my nerve damage I'd usually tank or heal rather than DPS, because I found those roles more interesting, but after the nerve damage I basically stopped DPSing entirely, because the best DPS I could do was good enough for overland content, public dungeons, etc, but not good enough for vet dungeons or trials. Part of my problem has been that it's very difficult to weave when you can't precisely control exactly when your finger fires (there's a very slight delay between when I intend my finger to hit a light attack and when it actually moves, and it's not consistent). Muscle memory doesn't really work for me like it used to.

Eventually, after a lot of practice and trying a lot of different setups, I finally found a build & rotation that worked pretty well for me, and let me start doing decent DPS. When I say "decent DPS" I mean "good enough to do vet DLC dungeons & vet trials without feeling like I'm getting carried, but far from top DPS and frankly not good enough to do every HM." When DPSing trials I'd usually end up in the lower half of the DPS in my prog group, but not embarrassingly low. I started to actually enjoy DPSing, and as much as I love tanking, I was finding a break from it refreshing, because it can be nice to not have that much responsibility.

Then along came U35, which was supposed to lower the ceiling without also lowering the floor. We all know that it has done absolutely nothing of the sort, and that it's a straight-up DPS nerf across the board, for top tier players, mid tier players (like me), and bottom tier players.

OK, so my already middling DPS has been nerfed, so I just need to adapt, right? Adjust my rotation to take into account the longer duration on some DoTs and use my spammable more, right? Yeah, it's not that easy. DoT durations are now all over the place so that I've now got 5 different durations for my 6 DoTs. Either I do a significantly more complicated rotation than before (which is incredibly difficult for me with my nerve damage), or I let some of my DoTs go away for a little bit before refreshing them (which is a DPS loss), or I just stick with my existing rotation and refresh almost all of my DoTs way before I need to (which is also a DPS loss).

The problem with doing a more complicated rotation that actually refreshes DoTs at about the right time isn't just that it's more difficult for me to do, involving much more weapon swapping & paying much closer attention to timers, it's that I'm spending so much more time on my spammable. My previous rotation used a spammable, but varied things up just the right amount for me. Thanks to my nerve damage, making the exact same movement with my finger over and over and over causes my finger to start twitching uncontrollably. That wasn't a problem with my old rotation. It's a massive problem with trying to do a new rotation that relies a lot more on a spammable. I get to a point where I basically have to stop in the middle of a fight to shake my hand around and wiggle my fingers for 30 seconds or so to be able to get my finger to work properly again.

I've had some people suggest I switch to some sort of heavy attack rotation so that I'm not relying on a spammable so much, and it's a good idea that I'm sure will work for some people having issues with the changes in U35, but that doesn't really work for me either. It kind of works in that I can do a heavy attack build without worrying about my finger starting to twitch uncontrollably, and I can get moderately decent DPS numbers with a build like that, but there's another problem. Spending too much time holding down that mouse button for heavy attacks gradually makes my nerve pain worse, and puts a hard limit on how long I can play before I have to stop (note: I also have this problem with holding down block when I'm tanking, but that uses my middle finger, which isn't as badly affected as my index finger, so I can hold down block for much longer than holding down heavy attacks before it starts to cause me problems). That means that I can't use a heavy attack DPS build for vet DLC dungeons and trials, because with a rotation like that I can't play for long enough to get through one of them.

For me U35 has been a complete mess that didn't even come close to achieving anything it was meant to achieve, and is instead the absolute opposite of accessibility. My already middle-of-the-road DPS has been significantly nerfed. Trying to adjust for this has led to nothing but a brutal reminder of my disability & the physical limits that I've worked really hard to overcome. Content that I used to be able to do now feels out of reach unless I'm being carried. I used to feel like a useful, contributing member of my prog team, and now I feel like I'm a liability holding them back. It sucks, it's *** demoralizing, and I'm seriously considering just giving up on being able to do DLC dungeons and trials.

I really wish ZOS had considered accessibility.

UrQuan · August 2022

Also, I absolutely hate the new animations for jabs and rapid strikes. Those don't really impact my ability to play the game, but both animations are far worse and uglier than the animations they replaced. Whoever worked on those animations should really have watched some videos of how weapons are actually used. You don't move a spear like you're using a shovel, and the whole point of wielding a weapon in each hand is so that you can either attack from multiple directions or parry with one weapon while attacking with the other - not so that you can make a leisurely heavily-telegraphed and easily-parried swing with each from along the exact same vector.

Cyber10 · August 2022

UrQuan wrote: »

U35 has been live for a week now, and I want to share my experience with it.

For some background, a few years ago I suffered some nerve damage that affects my fingers (it doesn't only affect my fingers, but that's what's relevant here and I don't really feel like going into a lot of detail about it). Initially I basically couldn't play at all (among other things: I also couldn't work or really do anything at first), but I gradually improved and got to the point where I rarely think about the nerve damage and unless I'm having a particularly bas day I can do most things without really noticing it.

Even before my nerve damage I'd usually tank or heal rather than DPS, because I found those roles more interesting, but after the nerve damage I basically stopped DPSing entirely, because the best DPS I could do was good enough for overland content, public dungeons, etc, but not good enough for vet dungeons or trials. Part of my problem has been that it's very difficult to weave when you can't precisely control exactly when your finger fires (there's a very slight delay between when I intend my finger to hit a light attack and when it actually moves, and it's not consistent). Muscle memory doesn't really work for me like it used to.

Eventually, after a lot of practice and trying a lot of different setups, I finally found a build & rotation that worked pretty well for me, and let me start doing decent DPS. When I say "decent DPS" I mean "good enough to do vet DLC dungeons & vet trials without feeling like I'm getting carried, but far from top DPS and frankly not good enough to do every HM." When DPSing trials I'd usually end up in the lower half of the DPS in my prog group, but not embarrassingly low. I started to actually enjoy DPSing, and as much as I love tanking, I was finding a break from it refreshing, because it can be nice to not have that much responsibility.

Then along came U35, which was supposed to lower the ceiling without also lowering the floor. We all know that it has done absolutely nothing of the sort, and that it's a straight-up DPS nerf across the board, for top tier players, mid tier players (like me), and bottom tier players.

OK, so my already middling DPS has been nerfed, so I just need to adapt, right? Adjust my rotation to take into account the longer duration on some DoTs and use my spammable more, right? Yeah, it's not that easy. DoT durations are now all over the place so that I've now got 5 different durations for my 6 DoTs. Either I do a significantly more complicated rotation than before (which is incredibly difficult for me with my nerve damage), or I let some of my DoTs go away for a little bit before refreshing them (which is a DPS loss), or I just stick with my existing rotation and refresh almost all of my DoTs way before I need to (which is also a DPS loss).

The problem with doing a more complicated rotation that actually refreshes DoTs at about the right time isn't just that it's more difficult for me to do, involving much more weapon swapping & paying much closer attention to timers, it's that I'm spending so much more time on my spammable. My previous rotation used a spammable, but varied things up just the right amount for me. Thanks to my nerve damage, making the exact same movement with my finger over and over and over causes my finger to start twitching uncontrollably. That wasn't a problem with my old rotation. It's a massive problem with trying to do a new rotation that relies a lot more on a spammable. I get to a point where I basically have to stop in the middle of a fight to shake my hand around and wiggle my fingers for 30 seconds or so to be able to get my finger to work properly again.

I've had some people suggest I switch to some sort of heavy attack rotation so that I'm not relying on a spammable so much, and it's a good idea that I'm sure will work for some people having issues with the changes in U35, but that doesn't really work for me either. It kind of works in that I can do a heavy attack build without worrying about my finger starting to twitch uncontrollably, and I can get moderately decent DPS numbers with a build like that, but there's another problem. Spending too much time holding down that mouse button for heavy attacks gradually makes my nerve pain worse, and puts a hard limit on how long I can play before I have to stop (note: I also have this problem with holding down block when I'm tanking, but that uses my middle finger, which isn't as badly affected as my index finger, so I can hold down block for much longer than holding down heavy attacks before it starts to cause me problems). That means that I can't use a heavy attack DPS build for vet DLC dungeons and trials, because with a rotation like that I can't play for long enough to get through one of them.

For me U35 has been a complete mess that didn't even come close to achieving anything it was meant to achieve, and is instead the absolute opposite of accessibility. My already middle-of-the-road DPS has been significantly nerfed. Trying to adjust for this has led to nothing but a brutal reminder of my disability & the physical limits that I've worked really hard to overcome. Content that I used to be able to do now feels out of reach unless I'm being carried. I used to feel like a useful, contributing member of my prog team, and now I feel like I'm a liability holding them back. It sucks, it's *** demoralizing, and I'm seriously considering just giving up on being able to do DLC dungeons and trials.

I really wish ZOS had considered accessibility.

Exactly this.. Nerfing damage across the board and then lowering boss health only in Vet dungeons accomplished nothing. The entire update is a complete mess.

Kingsindarkness · August 2022

I just don't think they are done...

I am betting my shiny new Donkey that in U36 content will be down-tuned across the board.

This may upset some/and I would never presume to speak for the devs...but I think they could want to eliminate carry guilds for money.

Allowing that presents a huge problem ethically and perhaps legally, not to mention the hypocrisy of saying you loathe casuals while taking their money to pretty much hand them the best gear in the game.

I'm just thinking out loud here though and am not a 100% sold on these musings.

imno007b14_ESO · August 2022

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

I just don't think they are done...

I am betting my shiny new Donkey that in U36 content will be down-tuned across the board.

This may upset some/and I would never presume to speak for the devs...but I think they could want to eliminate carry guilds for money.

Allowing that presents a huge problem ethically and perhaps legally, not to mention the hypocrisy of saying you loathe casuals while taking their money to pretty much hand them the best gear in the game.

I'm just thinking out loud here though and am not a 100% sold on these musings.

I really don't think that's the motivation for the changes. Never say never and all that, but I haven't seen any evidence for that, and I don't think that the carry-for-money stuff is as big business in ESO as it is in something like WoW - or at least like it used to be in WoW. Not sure how it would help much, in any case. I mean, if dps is lowered across the board, but with dedicated players still doing the highest dps by far, and at the same time end-game content is commensurately made easier, it all sort of equals out, doesn't it? It will likely still be much harder for more casuals players and easier for more hard-core players, and the former will still be as likely to seek out the latter for help.

SpacemanSpiff1 · August 2022

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

I just don't think they are done...

I am betting my shiny new Donkey that in U36 content will be down-tuned across the board.

This may upset some/and I would never presume to speak for the devs...but I think they could want to eliminate carry guilds for money.

Allowing that presents a huge problem ethically and perhaps legally, not to mention the hypocrisy of saying you loathe casuals while taking their money to pretty much hand them the best gear in the game.

I'm just thinking out loud here though and am not a 100% sold on these musings.

nailed it.

Kalle_Demos · August 2022

This isn't the first time that a patch has accomplished the exact opposite of Zos' stated goals. Remember 'racial balance and diversity'?

I'm really sorry that U35 has affected you and other players in such a negative way that many of us don't experience.

FYI: Zos doesn't really care about us here in the forums. They even disbanded intermediaries whose role was to relay community feedback years ago. After the Great Bosmer Extinction. Posting on ESO Reddit, Discord or their personal social media accounts are probably better ways to reach them. And even then you may be banned or blocked for simple disagreements. This has been a mess for a long time.

Ksariyu · August 2022

For starters, I'm genuinely sorry that the update has been so destructive to your enjoyment of the game. As much as I make fun of the top-tier players complaining, I respect and understand the frustration of the lower- to mid-tier players who got unnecessarily punished this patch (I'm right there too). More so I understand why a lot of people are angry that the "accessibility update" actively went against making the game more accessible to people with legitimate IRL conditions like the one you describe.
To that end, I'm curious what kind of playstyle/mechanics changes would help someone in your scenario. Especially in a game where APMs are kind of the be-all-end-all of skill (BS in my opinion, but that's what they say), it can be difficult to find something that's inclusive enough for the general community while also allowing some level of skill expression for those who really want to test their limits.
From what you said, I'd guess that something based around basic attacks (Light or heavy) is out of the question, so maybe something more ability-centric would be helpful. I checked the build you said you had the most fun with; there was indeed a decent amount of variation in regards to the order of skills being used, however it seems as though weaving is still present and therefore a roadblock for you. Perhaps skills with longer cast times that fit/extend beyond the normal GCD could be helpful, such as the old Uppercut/Crystal Frags with the 1.2 second cast time, so long as the damage is enough to make up for the lack of light attacks.
For much of the game, it seems that some kind of option between weaving and HA builds would be great for players at a variety of skill tiers, the devs just seem unwilling/unable to incorporate such a thing. Hopefully we can give them some ideas that actually create a variety of playstyles for a community with as much variety, rather than this one-size-fits-all thing they have going now.

Jaraal · August 2022

They never actually mentioned accessibility for disabled players, but rather accessibility for the “floor”, or lower tier players. And that was based on their original plan of nerfing DOTs to the same extended timer and making all light and heavy attacks do the same damage across the board.

It appeared to many of us at the time that this was just a selling point to rationalize an across the board damage nerf. And once they walked the changes back, accessibility was never mentioned again, until the live patch notes, where they claimed that it would be easier for players to hold down one button and use Empowered heavy attacks.

Unfortunately, as the OP states, this can actually make things more difficult for disabled players. They said there would be a Q&A explaining their motivation for the published changes, but they have either forgotten about that or decided not to tell us after all.

Varana · August 2022

But even for that definition, the original plan didn't achieve their goals. How on earth they assumed that their changes would "raise the floor", is absolutely baffling.

BretonMage · August 2022

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so my already middling DPS has been nerfed, so I just need to adapt, right? Adjust my rotation to take into account the longer duration on some DoTs and use my spammable more, right? Yeah, it's not that easy. DoT durations are now all over the place so that I've now got 5 different durations for my 6 DoTs. Either I do a significantly more complicated rotation than before (which is incredibly difficult for me with my nerve damage), or I let some of my DoTs go away for a little bit before refreshing them (which is a DPS loss), or I just stick with my existing rotation and refresh almost all of my DoTs way before I need to (which is also a DPS loss).

This is my main problem with the update. Regardless of how DPS or content is readjusted subsequently, my biggest issue is that my rotation with all the mismatched DOTs is just too complicated to play in any satisfactory manner.

I'm taking a break till U36 or later, whenever they decide to let us have fun again.

Klingenlied · August 2022

Varana wrote: »

But even for that definition, the original plan didn't achieve their goals. How on earth they assumed that their changes would "raise the floor", is absolutely baffling.

Well, it's already some time with the patch. By now, to me it feels more like they "accidently" didn't realize that many players really were struggling with content. And that the people that are unhappy did struggle with "mid tier" content - arenas, vet content and so on. And those got actually hit. Those "newbie players" that just started out? They don't realize any of this anyway. Same for those doing overland stuff.

But .. yea, anyway, the result is: we see there is a likely significant chunk of players that really wants to progress into more difficult activities. Instead of making those easier to access, the patch has done the opposite. I guess we all can take this as a simple matter of fact and the community seems to agree on this.

This means: the ball is at ZOS now. Doesn't matter if they talk to us or not, there is no way they could ever not realize what is going on within the community right now. So with Update 36, there is pretty much one choice only: pretty much buff all relevant combat metrics to make content feel pre Update 35 (or easier) - or tone down content to achieve the same.

And if it doesn't happen? Well, I guess this likely will be something that will be as close to an "endgame player exodus" as it can be. So it will be pretty interesting

SPR_of_HA_community · August 2022

Current game version have a lot of bugs.

The same time standartization of DOTS with no standartization of ground AOEs make skills with 10/14/15/20/24/35 seconds time. If all or the most part of skills look like 20/24 seconds - it would not be so big problem now.

So yes. It is not more accessible now. But with little fixes it can become much better.

If you are interested in it, you can read topic about it here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/616336/u35-feels-really-bad-but-it-may-be-can-be-really-good-if

anvilbert · August 2022

U35 hasn't even hit console yet and we have heavy hitters from our guild taking a break to see what comes after. Having a hard time filling rosters because people are so disgusted with all the major upside down changes. The cities are empty compared to a few weeks ago. This update is a player disaster.

SPR_of_HA_community · August 2022

anvilbert wrote: »

U35 hasn't even hit console yet and we have heavy hitters from our guild taking a break to see what comes after. Having a hard time filling rosters because people are so disgusted with all the major upside down changes. The cities are empty compared to a few weeks ago. This update is a player disaster.

Sone our players leave or stop play too.
Constant changes is not some thing we like. We do not feel any progress in our characters with constant nerfs and TESO is MMO game. A lot of players do not like arena weapons nerfs, it took a lot of time for players get it. The same time we dislike new timers on skills. It becomes much longer, that was not best change, but OK it is not really to bad, but that it has all different numbers on it feels even worse

anvilbert · August 2022

The fact that all of my characters are back to beginner level after investing 4 yrs in this game makes me very angry. I have real world money invested as well. I wont be able to even do content which I have already paid for and been running is enough to make anyone step away.

anvilbert · August 2022

That is akin to theft in my opinion. I paid for this content then it gets pulled out of my reach. Get my money then tell me oh so sorry you can't have this, how is that more accessible?

Lady_Galadhiel · August 2022

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

I just don't think they are done...

I am betting my shiny new Donkey that in U36 content will be down-tuned across the board.

This may upset some/and I would never presume to speak for the devs...but I think they could want to eliminate carry guilds for money.

Allowing that presents a huge problem ethically and perhaps legally, not to mention the hypocrisy of saying you loathe casuals while taking their money to pretty much hand them the best gear in the game.

I'm just thinking out loud here though and am not a 100% sold on these musings.

More likely the opposit... The end game players still adapt the best to changes and can complete their runs while normal people struggle more to do so, which in the end Jimmy may just buy a quick carry run to get some more gear from this dlc dungeon or trial.
Carry run prices also go up as content becomes more difficult to complete and carry runers need to do it with one less person.

While normal players complain about their templars and dps loss,I did talk 2 days ago with an end game player who still takes his templar to carry runs, so there goes that...They just adapt much better.

Necrotech_Master · August 2022

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

I just don't think they are done...

I am betting my shiny new Donkey that in U36 content will be down-tuned across the board.

This may upset some/and I would never presume to speak for the devs...but I think they could want to eliminate carry guilds for money.

Allowing that presents a huge problem ethically and perhaps legally, not to mention the hypocrisy of saying you loathe casuals while taking their money to pretty much hand them the best gear in the game.

I'm just thinking out loud here though and am not a 100% sold on these musings.

More likely the opposit... The end game players still adapt the best to changes and can complete their runs while normal people struggle more to do so, which in the end Jimmy may just buy a quick carry run to get some more gear from this dlc dungeon or trial.
Carry run prices also go up as content becomes more difficult to complete and carry runers need to do it with one less person.

While normal players complain about their templars and dps loss,I did talk 2 days ago with an end game player who still takes his templar to carry runs, so there goes that...They just adapt much better.

to go along with that, my templar is one of my highest dps toons still, and i effectively havent changed his build (i changed 1 skill) and hes still working fine with his main spammable as jabs (the animation is a bit wonky but the skill still delivers)

i normally run with a group that does vet trials, we usually just go for completion, and dont really do hard modes, but i mean the first time i completed vet blackrose prison arena was with my templar post U35 (and arena bosses didnt get a health nerf in there either)

imno007b14_ESO · August 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

They never actually mentioned accessibility for disabled players....

Right, and think what that might mean. How bad might the nerfs have been been if they thought they were nerfing for actual disabled people, rather than people who are only "motivation-disabled"?

SPR_of_HA_community · August 2022

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

They never actually mentioned accessibility for disabled players....

Right, and think what that might mean. How bad might the nerfs have been been if they thought they were nerfing for actual disabled people, rather than people who are only "motivation-disabled"?

What motivation can exist in MMO where your character gets nerfs each update - and you need adapt just to stay each time the same level as you was before nerfs ?

Just think about it as in some old MMO you try to capture the castle. And when you do it server administrator returns it to NPC or previous owner.

How many times will you do it to understand that it is some cheating here ? )))

Mario, you Princess is in another castle. Try another level or find another Princess ☺️😂

Gargath · August 2022

anvilbert wrote: »

U35 hasn't even hit console yet and we have heavy hitters from our guild taking a break to see what comes after. Having a hard time filling rosters because people are so disgusted with all the major upside down changes. The cities are empty compared to a few weeks ago. This update is a player disaster.

[SNIP]
PC has no problem with players, who are crowding cities and roaming overland. This update is not a disaster, but a typical forum whining because someone has to make changes in their build, and disaster for them is adaptation to changing game environment.

Edited for baiting

ZOS_Suserial · August 2022

Greetings,

Please remember that while it’s all right to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. This is a friendly reminder to remain on topic and civil when posting.

Thank you for your understanding.

joseayalac · August 2022

Actually, even with all the theory etc that many have come up with, the game feels GOOD to play in this new update, PVE content is fine and doable (maybe besides solo arenas for some classes). PVP also is fun this patch, maybe Mara's is overtuned but combat feels good overall.

You should at least play and try it before complaining. It's surprising that the game feels good.

Ragnarok0130 · August 2022

Gargath wrote: »

anvilbert wrote: »

U35 hasn't even hit console yet and we have heavy hitters from our guild taking a break to see what comes after. Having a hard time filling rosters because people are so disgusted with all the major upside down changes. The cities are empty compared to a few weeks ago. This update is a player disaster.

[SNIP]
PC has no problem with players, who are crowding cities and roaming overland. This update is not a disaster, but a typical forum whining because someone has to make changes in their build, and disaster for them is adaptation to changing game environment.

Edited for baiting

ESO uses something called "instancing" so for example if before we had 30 instances of 100 people (made up numbers for example use only), and later due to a controversial update we now only have 10 instances of 100 people you will think there's no change in the player population based on what you see in zone until you try to queue for a dungeon or try to gather players for a raid.

After U35 as a healer I've noticed that I've had to wait significantly longer for the queue to pop in both normal random dungeons and veteran dungeons even at peak player times than before U35. My guilds and discords are ghost towns compared to U34, and it's far more difficult to fill DPS holes in a raid team via discord, guild, and zone chat than under U34 when it was very easy to fill DPS holes in rosters. I see you're in Poland and I'm on PCNA so there may be slight regional differences but to act like U35 hasn't caused a large number of players to stop playing is naive at best and disingenuous at worse. I've played since Beta and have seen all of the bad and good changes and the only patch that comes close to this one regarding community backlash is Morrowind and Morrowind's effects damaged the end game scene for years.

Paralyse · August 2022

As someone who has nerve issues in my left hand and left elbow, I understand that nerve issues can be challenging to overcome, and kudos to you for not letting it hamper your gameplay experience. It took me many hours of playing with key and mouse binds to get somewhat comfortable since the left two fingers on my left hand are pretty useless.

That being said, your post is well-written and you raise some valid issues that merit further discussion, but I take slight issue with the following statement::

Then along came U35, which was supposed to lower the ceiling without also lowering the floor. We all know that it has done absolutely nothing of the sort, and that it's a straight-up DPS nerf across the board, for top tier players, mid tier players (like me), and bottom tier players.

Now, I am but one player among many, but I am a very active participant in 6 different Discord servers dedicated to running trials and dungeons at all levels of difficulty from normal training runs to vet HM's and trifecta/score push groups. I am not at that top level by any means, but have completed some of the vet trial HM's. I suppose I would be a "mid" player.

My two DPS toons are a Dunmer magicka sorcerer and a Khajiit stamina nightblade.

Best 21M DPS parse on sorc before last patch: 106K DPS
Best 21M DPS parse on sorc after last patch: (Currently) 109K DPS
Gain: ~3K DPS

Best 21M DPS parse on NB before last patch: 79K DPS
Best 21M DPS parse on NB after last patch: (Currently) 98.3K DPS (last night)
Gain: ~19.3k DPS

In terms of actual content that I've done since patch, my sorc's parses are slightly down on Yoln HM; but they are up significantly on Lokke HM, up slightly on Nahvi HM, down slightly on Yandir HM, up significantly on Vrol HM and slightly lower on Falg HM. The only other vet trials I've run so far have been a vCR+0 (DPS up moderately on Z'maja) and a vAA HM (slightly lower to about the same on all bosses except slightly lower on Varlariel and moderately higher on the Mage HM.) I attribute some of those DPS gains and losses to improved cleave damage on my sorc but slightly lower single target damage.

This is just my personal experience, but my intent is to show that once you get your build and gear updated for the new changes, parses and actual performance in content are not game-breaking in my experience and those of my trial partners so far. Unless you are pushing scores in content like vRG HM and vDSR HM, you should still be able to complete trial content you did before, at about the same level of performance, if you put some work into optimizing your DPS toons with new setups.

I would also mention that if ZOS can resolve the numerous bugs currently plaguing arena weapons (BRP and MA) that should further restore some of the losses (at least, I hope so!)

Best of luck in your future trial endeavours!

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · September 2022

Paralyse wrote: »

As someone who has nerve issues in my left hand and left elbow, I understand that nerve issues can be challenging to overcome, and kudos to you for not letting it hamper your gameplay experience. It took me many hours of playing with key and mouse binds to get somewhat comfortable since the left two fingers on my left hand are pretty useless.

That being said, your post is well-written and you raise some valid issues that merit further discussion, but I take slight issue with the following statement::

Then along came U35, which was supposed to lower the ceiling without also lowering the floor. We all know that it has done absolutely nothing of the sort, and that it's a straight-up DPS nerf across the board, for top tier players, mid tier players (like me), and bottom tier players.

Now, I am but one player among many, but I am a very active participant in 6 different Discord servers dedicated to running trials and dungeons at all levels of difficulty from normal training runs to vet HM's and trifecta/score push groups. I am not at that top level by any means, but have completed some of the vet trial HM's. I suppose I would be a "mid" player.

My two DPS toons are a Dunmer magicka sorcerer and a Khajiit stamina nightblade.

Best 21M DPS parse on sorc before last patch: 106K DPS
Best 21M DPS parse on sorc after last patch: (Currently) 109K DPS
Gain: ~3K DPS

Best 21M DPS parse on NB before last patch: 79K DPS
Best 21M DPS parse on NB after last patch: (Currently) 98.3K DPS (last night)
Gain: ~19.3k DPS

In terms of actual content that I've done since patch, my sorc's parses are slightly down on Yoln HM; but they are up significantly on Lokke HM, up slightly on Nahvi HM, down slightly on Yandir HM, up significantly on Vrol HM and slightly lower on Falg HM. The only other vet trials I've run so far have been a vCR+0 (DPS up moderately on Z'maja) and a vAA HM (slightly lower to about the same on all bosses except slightly lower on Varlariel and moderately higher on the Mage HM.) I attribute some of those DPS gains and losses to improved cleave damage on my sorc but slightly lower single target damage.

This is just my personal experience, but my intent is to show that once you get your build and gear updated for the new changes, parses and actual performance in content are not game-breaking in my experience and those of my trial partners so far. Unless you are pushing scores in content like vRG HM and vDSR HM, you should still be able to complete trial content you did before, at about the same level of performance, if you put some work into optimizing your DPS toons with new setups.

I would also mention that if ZOS can resolve the numerous bugs currently plaguing arena weapons (BRP and MA) that should further restore some of the losses (at least, I hope so!)

Best of luck in your future trial endeavours!

You're not taking into account the massive buffs to the trials dummy. Elemental Catalyst, 100% uptime on major slayer, minor courage, and full Alkosh debuffs were added to the dummy to bloat the parses in update 35.