Please stop trying to balance pvp and pve, they need to be separated.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

These constant balance changes keep pointing to this. It's been said a thousand times by much wiser, skilled, and informed folks who have put thousands of hours into this game. Oakensoul was a non-issue until I started being used in pvp. In fact it was the ultimate accessibility option for a ton of folks. There are skills and attack styles that are abused in pvp but they are important, useful, or even necessary in pve and vise versa. This will never work. Save yourselves from the endless balance grind, spend 6 months doing it, whatever it and however long it takes. In the long haul it will be better for the game, the devs and the players. Instead of having to constantly rework skills and gear you could then focus on content and making patches something for players to look forward to and not dread. It's time to seriously consider this.

Xarc · August 2022

no

Azyle1 · August 2022

I think FFXIV balances PVE and PVP separately. Skills do different things in PVP than PVE. At least... I thought it did. Idk about anymore.

Point is, that game doesn't have nearly the balance issues ESO does.

heaven13 · August 2022

Some skills even already do this. Sorc negate, for example. It’s possible. They choose not to.

Parasaurolophus · August 2022

What for? All damage has long been standardized. What's the point?

OBJnoob · August 2022

There’s enough to learn about the game and I remember from my time as a beginning player how difficult it is to find up to date information… I think it’d be a huge detriment and unnecessary complication to suddenly have skills operating differently in pvp versus pve.

I play in no proc cyrodiil and we still don’t have an official list from Zos on what does or doesn’t work in there.

It just doesn’t need to happen.

Oakensoul was too strong in pve too. On one hand it doesn’t really help get players into organized vet trials because those groups would already be providing you with those buffs so really you’re just down a bar. But what it did do was give every pug 4-man dungeoneer buffs that you should only have in a trial. And that is wicked OP. People just didn’t care as much because when npcs get beat up nobody cares cuz we’re all on the same team. Pvp highlighted the issue because frankly issues are just more obvious there.

Now let’s look at mist form as an example. Some pve-ers were abusing this to get past a certain hard mode, right? And so the skill was adjusted for pve but left alone for pvp, right, or am I remembering wrong? Well, gotta tell you, as an avid pvper they really should’ve nerfed it in pvp too. It’s widely abused and a very trolly mechanic in general.

Overpowered is overpowered, it’s just who complains first.

FrankonPC · August 2022

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

What for? All damage has long been standardized. What's the point?

dots in pvp in general on live underperform other dmg. cross healing in pvp on live over-performs whereas a case can be made that it's not enough in some content. as more and more content comes out for pve and different standards are needed...it would be in the best interest of the players and the developers if they separated the standardization of skills and abilities.

you see it happen a lot in past patch notes where they have an idea that looks like it could be fun for pve or pvp, but it ends up too powerful in the other environment and in need of adjustments. This standardization would allow the developers to get more creative with balancing, without having concerns of hurting other aspects of the game. It's win/win imo

hisoka · August 2022

i have said this many times it will make the devs work way easier, it might take some time setting it up the first time but in the long run they wont have issues balancing sets and mythics, hope this post goes noticed by the devs

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

From another thread:

The first issue with splitting the game that is now you have to farm even more sets. Right now there are dozens of sets that work perfectly fine in both PvE and pvp. I have a dark convergence tank for non-HM vet PvE content, for example. I use archers mind on a character and deadlands assassin. If you cut off the game and have only certain sets work for certain modes, then that's a mess.

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

The second issue is there just isn't an economic way for them to develop two separate game modes. The sheer amount of money they spend now is solely covered by ESO+ and crown store purchases. How are they supposed to support two large teams to tackle PvE and pvp separately?

It would be different if the game started that way from the beginning but it didn't. To untangle then now would be a monumental undertaking.

Lykeion · August 2022

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

Hurbster · August 2022

Should have been separated from the start, or at least use Battle Spirit to do the same thing.

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

Nathyiel · August 2022

Most mmo have different balance for PvE and PvP because it's easier to balance.

For PvE, balance is easier to do so they can focus on gameplay. For PvP, Dev can work more on number to create meta and change it regularly to keep things interesting.

Some mmo don't use different number, or keep it hidden, but use specific skill and standardized pvp gear.

FF14 - different number and effect
WoW - different effect, specific skill, standardized gear
BDO - different number/effect and standardized gear

It's easier for mmo like FF14/BDO because there's only choice from gear.
WoW is a little more complex but they balance each specialization to move the meta regularly.

For ESO, since a lot of things depend on weapon choice. The pvp balancing could be done at this level. Maybe it's this kind of things they test.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

^ this. It's unfeasible to start from scratch but with battle spirit you could say add a much larger cool down for dark convergence for example or make it so it doesn't stack in pvp. They have already done similar thing and then you could keep that tank build intact instead of having them nerf it across the board because it's abused by ball groups. I already farm or build different sets for pvp. I've never used a trial set in pvp for example but plaguebreaker you already have to farm from BG. I understand it's a large undertaking, I mentioned that in my op. That said we wouldn't have to worry about wild meta swings and they could focus more on new content as opposed to constant balancing which either nerfs pvp severally or pve or both.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

Unrealistic expectations only leaves a person disappointed. As I pointed out, in year 8 of a game that was designed to make moving in and out of PvE/PvP seamless, the massive amount of time it would take to rip it apart now would drastically hurt the game for a perceived benefit by PvErs who just want a ring that makes them burn through content.

They would need more money generated. A lot more. How would they get it? From us. Who wants to pay to cover this? Not me, that's for sure.

It would mean no more content until the code could be untangled and every set and skill in the game balanced for both. At least a year. That kind of stagnation kills games.

Plus there's no guarantee that doing the way players wouldn't reject this change just like the current pts.

All because it's perceived incorrectly that a ring was nerfed solely for PVP, which isn't true. It is OP in both modes and no MMO game developer wants an item that lets someone burn through content solo that was meant for group play. Because it's an mmo.

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

You cannot make a BS condition for every set and skill. Do you not understand why this will be a performance issue? BS is for flat changes for core combat concerns.

VaranisArano · August 2022

These constant balance changes point to an MMO that is trying to keep players engaged and their endgame from stagnating by making constant balance changes.

Imagine if PVE is balanced separately.

How long can ZOS leave one class as the top DPS and another class at the bottom?
How long can ZOS leave one class as the best tank and healer and others at the bottom?
How long can ZOS allow power creep to balloon from new sets, new Mythics, and new buffs before the Combat Team sweeps in with more nerfs to keep old content from becoming obsolete and new content from becoming (even more) out of reach?

And perhaps more bluntly, how can ZOS sell their brand new, shiny, overpowered Mythic Item to PVEers with the latest Chapter if the older Mythic Items are just as overpowered? (Thrassians Stranglers, Ring of the Pale Order, and Harpooner's Wading Kilt already learned what happens.)

If PVE is balanced separately, the constant balance changes will continue.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

You cannot make a BS condition for every set and skill. Do you not understand why this will be a performance issue? BS is for flat changes for core combat concerns.

I am not suggesting you make a new condition for every skill or set what are you talking about. Limiting stacking for example would work on numerous sets to limit issues as well as overhealing and not being able to throw down 8 dark convergence on top of each other would HELP performance issues. That IS a core flat change. You don't add a specific condition to every set individually. Good. God.

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

You cannot make a BS condition for every set and skill. Do you not understand why this will be a performance issue? BS is for flat changes for core combat concerns.

I am not suggesting you make a new condition for every skill or set what are you talking about. Limiting stacking for example would work on numerous sets to limit issues as well as overhealing and not being able to throw down 8 dark convergence on top of each other would HELP performance issues. That IS a core flat change. You don't add a specific condition to every set individually. Good. God.

You just added numerous, perhaps hundreds of calculations at a single point, like a resource flag.

ThirdEye_PULSE · August 2022

Interesting. Right as this post is trending, theres also another post saying they shouldnt be seperated.

I didnt know this was controversial.. but ive yet to hear why seperating problemtic skills and sets is a bad thing... at least an argument that is founded on solid logic and reason for why its bad.

If something is balanced in one form of content and OP in another, wouldnt it make more sense to seperate it with battle spirit rather than nerfing it?

What happens when you nerf something that is balanced for pve but op in pvp? Typically becomes unusable in pve and even pvp when they use a big enough nerf hammer like their prone to do.

jaws343 · August 2022

I always feel like this separate balance argument falls into the fallacy of assuming that balance changes only happen due to PVP.

This patch is an extremely good example of the game being balanced solely around PVE content. They are nerfing overall DPS due to PVE. PVP players rely mostly on burst damage, not DPS. This patch would still be happening, regardless of separate balancing.

ThirdEye_PULSE · August 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

I always feel like this separate balance argument falls into the fallacy of assuming that balance changes only happen due to PVP.

This patch is an extremely good example of the game being balanced solely around PVE content. They are nerfing overall DPS due to PVE. PVP players rely mostly on burst damage, not DPS. This patch would still be happening, regardless of separate balancing.

Yeah. Really theres only two things with U35 that are bad for pvp. Mara's set is INSANELY op... best defensive set in game for pvp. Then, DoT nerf for sticky DoTs (usually only DoTs we use) dmg nerf is so high for pvp especially with battle spirit i dont think it will be worth slotting DoTs for most classes in pvp.

Well, and nearly every class getting their class spammable nerfed. Gonna be a lot of weapon spammables u35 in pvp lol.

Which is a good case for using battle spirit for DoTs with U35. Instead of half dmg they could do 25% or 0% damage reduction from battle spirit and still be worse than current live lol.

Ive seen many good skills/sets that overperform in pvp get nerfed and its horrible for pve and vice versa. So yeah i agree with you. Didnt even think maybe thats why people dont want them seperate because they think it doesnt effect pve? Idk

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

I always feel like this separate balance argument falls into the fallacy of assuming that balance changes only happen due to PVP.

This patch is an extremely good example of the game being balanced solely around PVE content. They are nerfing overall DPS due to PVE. PVP players rely mostly on burst damage, not DPS. This patch would still be happening, regardless of separate balancing.

I actually mentioned that specifically. That balancing one almost always unbalances the other.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

You cannot make a BS condition for every set and skill. Do you not understand why this will be a performance issue? BS is for flat changes for core combat concerns.

I am not suggesting you make a new condition for every skill or set what are you talking about. Limiting stacking for example would work on numerous sets to limit issues as well as overhealing and not being able to throw down 8 dark convergence on top of each other would HELP performance issues. That IS a core flat change. You don't add a specific condition to every set individually. Good. God.

You just added numerous, perhaps hundreds of calculations at a single point, like a resource flag.

That's already happening lol

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

You cannot make a BS condition for every set and skill. Do you not understand why this will be a performance issue? BS is for flat changes for core combat concerns.

I am not suggesting you make a new condition for every skill or set what are you talking about. Limiting stacking for example would work on numerous sets to limit issues as well as overhealing and not being able to throw down 8 dark convergence on top of each other would HELP performance issues. That IS a core flat change. You don't add a specific condition to every set individually. Good. God.

You just added numerous, perhaps hundreds of calculations at a single point, like a resource flag.

That's already happening lol

Yes it is. So why would you want to add a bunch more?

boi_anachronism_ · August 2022

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

You cannot make a BS condition for every set and skill. Do you not understand why this will be a performance issue? BS is for flat changes for core combat concerns.

I am not suggesting you make a new condition for every skill or set what are you talking about. Limiting stacking for example would work on numerous sets to limit issues as well as overhealing and not being able to throw down 8 dark convergence on top of each other would HELP performance issues. That IS a core flat change. You don't add a specific condition to every set individually. Good. God.

You just added numerous, perhaps hundreds of calculations at a single point, like a resource flag.

That's already happening lol

Yes it is. So why would you want to add a bunch more?

Uhhhhh because one will mitigate some issues while the other just leaves a continuous mess that makes pvp miserable for most players even those who are legitimately good but refusing to use cheese sets. Is that some kind of trick question? If its a trade off you obviously take the one that improves the overall health of the game. I mean are you a ball group player or something cause that's what it sounds like. I suppose your right, let's leave it how it is until nobody wants to pvp anymore. No stress with server calculations then, right 👍🏻

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Lykeion wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

no

And, reason?

In 8.1.0 zos clearly showed a lack of consideration in balancing pve and pvp at the same time. Although subsequent changes have sought some sort of compromise between the two, it is clear that this also cost them a lot of efforts. Separating the balance between the two is a better choice for both zos and players

ninjagank wrote: »

By segregating sets, you also make it harder for players who primarily play one mode to get into the other.

You can't really split PvE from PVP and not have sets only work in either. Otherwise you have to make duplicate copies of the same sets with different bonuses.

Well, I've never seen anyone use Rele and BM in pvp, and I've never seen anyone use Caluu in pve

And?

So you're saying you want PvE sourced gear that should only work in pvp? Should the also be RotW gear that only works in PvE?

Curse Easter is pvp sourced gear that only is used in PvE.

C'mon.

By the by, I've ran Caluurions plenty of times when I'm just running a dungeon for funsies and didn't need/want to break out my slayer/aegis gear.

And what happened? They nerfed caluurions because of pvp and now it's barely worth running.

I'm not suggesting that they don't allow crossover, I'm suggesting they expand battle spirit to add additional cooldowns or a limit on stacking for example in pvp so sets like dark convergence can remain viable in pve and not create a ball group nightmare in pvp.

I already have duplicate sets for pvp and pve because they need different traits but that's anyone issue with what I and many other folks have proposed.

You cannot make a BS condition for every set and skill. Do you not understand why this will be a performance issue? BS is for flat changes for core combat concerns.

I am not suggesting you make a new condition for every skill or set what are you talking about. Limiting stacking for example would work on numerous sets to limit issues as well as overhealing and not being able to throw down 8 dark convergence on top of each other would HELP performance issues. That IS a core flat change. You don't add a specific condition to every set individually. Good. God.

You just added numerous, perhaps hundreds of calculations at a single point, like a resource flag.

That's already happening lol

Yes it is. So why would you want to add a bunch more?

Uhhhhh because one will mitigate some issues while the other just leaves a continuous mess that makes pvp miserable for most players even those who are legitimately good but refusing to use cheese sets. Is that some kind of trick question? If its a trade off you obviously take the one that improves the overall health of the game. I mean are you a ball group player or something cause that's what it sounds like. I suppose your right, let's leave it how it is until nobody wants to pvp anymore. No stress with server calculations then, right 👍🏻

It's not a trick question, you just didn't understand it, which is on me for not properly explaining what I meant.

A video game of any type is a visual representation of thousands of lines of code, maybe even millions, all being executed at once. The more calculations, the bigger the resources required on both the server side and client side to manage these calculations and communicate with one another.

So let's say you have a battle at a resource flag.

You have positional calculations for every player and NPC in the area happening multiple times a second in order to properly report player movements to the server, back to the client, and then to all the others in the area.

You have the gear being worn, the procs being fired, and all the skills going off. You have all the passives that boost the various skills being fired. You have all the NPC actions and movements. These are just a few of the things going on behind the scenes that hog a LOT of resources, and all these things combined are running on code from before launch.

They have stated many times now along with other measures one of the things they are doing to help performance issues is reduce calculations to ease the strain on the servers.

So back to your statement. You may think it's just an easy thing to add a set condition to Battle Spirit, but it isn't, because every time someone with oakensoul runs into the scene, that's a multiple-times per second adjustment being made via BS. Then you have more people and more people, which means more and more calculations.

And then you have all the instances of people asking for this over the years for other sets and skills. More and more individual calculations.

Hopefully you can understand why this is an issue. Whether or not you want to wear oaklensoul is not more important than people being able to actually play the game without their characters freezing every other second or skills not firing.

mzprx · August 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

...I play in no proc cyrodiil and we still don’t have an official list from Zos on what does or doesn’t work in there...

THIS! ZOS - THIS! hello? anyone? THIS!

how absolutely ridiculous is the fact that there is a TON of information on topics that no one cares about (you press F1 in game and one of the topics there is about aiming a siege weapon, as if that is something anyone would ever try to look for because they can't figure out that they should simply aim the crosshair of the siege weapon at the spot they want to destroy) but there is NO official list of sets that work in no CP campaign(s). how is that even possible? how inappropriate (and, frankly, rude and offensive) is ti that if we, the players, want to know what sets we actually can use in no CP we have to do the testing OURSELVES? hello?