Grim Focus / NB changes Idea/Question

miguelcura · August 2022

Hi all.

If they are trying to reduce the impact of light attacks on damage, to make it easier to weave. Shouldn't they then make Grim Focus trigger when executing 5 abilities in a row, or 5 veiled strike in a row? (instead of 5LA in a row) Wouldn't that be more consistent with the changes?

I think this would make the NB a much more enjoyable class...

Ghat do you think?

Regards

AlterBlika · August 2022

miguelcura wrote: »

5 veiled strike in a row

You've just ruined the class for everyone who uses other spammables. 5 abilities would be good, but I like the main concept of nb - you need to weave to get buffs. Regardless of the changes, you still need to weave. It just doesn't do that much damage anymore.

miguelcura · August 2022

AlterBlika wrote: »

miguelcura wrote: »

5 veiled strike in a row

You've just ruined the class for everyone who uses other spammables. 5 abilities would be good, but I like the main concept of nb - you need to weave to get buffs. Regardless of the changes, you still need to weave. It just doesn't do that much damage anymore.

Of course you are right. I mean, it's an idea. It can be a particular ability or any 5... But I wish it wasn't so dependent on weave, the game is going in that direction and I think it's the right one.

olsborg · August 2022

if it procced on 5 abilites or 5 light attacks that would be very fine imo, also it should keep the wep / spelldmg from the 5 charges for 1s after casting so it atleast would buff itself aswell

ToRelax · August 2022

If it's 5 abilities that hit a target, it would be a nerf in most situations, as you use light attacks in between defensive skills.

If it's 5 abilities of any type, it would encourage going into stealth or temporarily disengaging to procc it.

I'm not convinced.

miguelcura · August 2022

ToRelax wrote: »

If it's 5 abilities that hit a target, it would be a nerf in most situations, as you use light attacks in between defensive skills.

If it's 5 abilities of any type, it would encourage going into stealth or temporarily disengaging to procc it.

I'm not convinced.

It could be 5 hits but only with specific skills that are used as spam (and also the LAs) Again, the idea would be to stop relying so much on weaving.

WoW's rogue works similarly with combos and is a lot of fun and not as intricate as nb. That is, several skills add points to apply a finishing move (that here would be grim focus)

The problem is that the LA sometimes don't come out in the most difficult fights and not to mention that the server is quite unstable with that issue. Imagine playing with 250ms of latency.

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

the only issue with focus is that it has terrible uptime. You literally can get it to 5, then bar swap to fire the proc, and suddenly drop of out combat and lose it, while also blowing the stamina to "refresh" it.

Light attacks aren't the issue and I have to say this. Everyone should learn how to Light Attack. Trying to erase them from the game isn't going to suddenly make it easier. You will do less damage than anyone who has learned to LA.

miguelcura · August 2022

ninjagank wrote: »

the only issue with focus is that it has terrible uptime. You literally can get it to 5, then bar swap to fire the proc, and suddenly drop of out combat and lose it, while also blowing the stamina to "refresh" it.

Light attacks aren't the issue and I have to say this. Everyone should learn how to Light Attack. Trying to erase them from the game isn't going to suddenly make it easier. You will do less damage than anyone who has learned to LA.

It's just that sometimes it's not just a matter of learning the mechanics. I insist that Latency greatly affects the process of the spectral arc. The server has a lot of ping variance. You can see it in Saligia's guides where he explains how to use the spectral bow with >200 ping in 6th LA instead of 5th. I make 100k on dummie, I know how to knit, but it's really annoying. It seems correct to me that they lower the damage of the LA, and if you master it and the server allows it, you will do 10% more damage. And if not, well, you won't be that far from it and you can still be accepted into groups. There are not too many people in this game and especially people who get involved in endgame. Most of them play skyrim online alone. I think that everyone has to like it, so that they are encouraged, especially when there are so many technical problems that are a barrier when it comes to taking the leap.

Soarora · August 2022

Please no, it sounds like templar jabs all over again. Having to do jabs 4 times in a row due to burning light is a big reason as to why I don't like playing templar. This would also kill a part of nightblade's class identity as nightblade and sorcerer are the only two classes that have well-used skills based on LA weaving, with nightblade being the one who uses that type of skill in the most builds.

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

miguelcura wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

the only issue with focus is that it has terrible uptime. You literally can get it to 5, then bar swap to fire the proc, and suddenly drop of out combat and lose it, while also blowing the stamina to "refresh" it.

Light attacks aren't the issue and I have to say this. Everyone should learn how to Light Attack. Trying to erase them from the game isn't going to suddenly make it easier. You will do less damage than anyone who has learned to LA.

It's just that sometimes it's not just a matter of learning the mechanics. I insist that Latency greatly affects the process of the spectral arc. The server has a lot of ping variance. You can see it in Saligia's guides where he explains how to use the spectral bow with >200 ping in 6th LA instead of 5th. I make 100k on dummie, I know how to knit, but it's really annoying. It seems correct to me that they lower the damage of the LA, and if you master it and the server allows it, you will do 10% more damage. And if not, well, you won't be that far from it and you can still be accepted into groups. There are not too many people in this game and especially people who get involved in endgame. Most of them play skyrim online alone. I think that everyone has to like it, so that they are encouraged, especially when there are so many technical problems that are a barrier when it comes to taking the leap.

A couple things.

First, it doesn't matter what the la damage is. Any additional damage on top of skills will be a deciding factor. So unless they remove light and heavy attacks, the advantage will remain.

Second, I do understand that lag is an issue. Lag is an issue in every connected game. I've hit lag spikes in your favorite battle royale game, watching as my gun somehow misses the person I'm aiming currently at, because of positional issues that also plague ESO.

Latency however is a little different. If I have a ping of 100ms that is static, then I will learn to play at that delay. So long as my ping remains about the same, then my perception of GCD and weaving will stay steady.

It's kind of like how gravity works. We're all standing on a giant ball that's spinning at 460 meters a second. So long as this stays constant, we're okay. The moment it slows or speeds up just a little, we get ripped apart.

The server works the same. So long as our connection to the server remains constant, we can hit our skills and attacks without issue.

The issue is when the server is strained and what we see on our screen no longer matches what the server reports. That is when weaving gets harder to maintain.

But it's also universal. Whether it's a sweaty 120k dps DD or a new comer to the game, if the server is stressed we all are effected. The new comer is at no more disadvantage than the sweat. The sweat might just be better at compensating. This is why I lot on high tier DDs parse alone late at night.

Ksariyu · August 2022

For me personally, I feel that generating stacks with LAs fits pretty well with the identity of a nightblade. LAs are quick and simple, and an assassin has no time for flashy, over-the-top skills. That said, I agree that Grim Focus has some problems with its current form, and I also believe it could be worked to help encourage a style other than just straight weaving all day every day.

Fortunately, the skill just stacks on light/heavy attacks. They don't have to be in a row, which is very important for the skill's flexibility. That said, I also feel the Assassin skill line could use a skill, probably a passive, that would allow Assassins to benefit from stacking Focus in a quick burst. Something that would make using 5 light attacks in a row actually feasible. I always go back to the OG NB skill Haste, which ironically got replaced by Grim Focus (They're a perfect match I swear), but anything to offset the damage loss from not weaving would help.

On top of the skill's identity though, there's two other problems I have with it. The big one is how buggy it is; like most proc skills, Grim Focus suffers from a buggy skill icon that doesn't always properly indicate whether the skill is ready to fire. It'll often show the "ready" icon even at 0 stacks, so players frequently waste resources re-casting the buff on accident. The smaller problem is that the buff needs to be active to generate or use the stacks. Oftentimes the skill will run out just before you get to cast the proc, throwing off your momentum in a parse and screwing up your burst timing in PvP. It's another skill that just feels needlessly clunky to use, and frankly I feel that both Focus and Sorc's Bound Armaments would be a lot easier to use if they were just active all the time. Of course, that would also require them to fix the issue they have with Frags and Whip, where they can only gain stacks if they're on the active bar (This needs to be addressed for everything that's based on your equipped skills).

miguelcura · August 2022

ninjagank wrote: »

Second, I do understand that lag is an issue. Lag is an issue in every connected game. I've hit lag spikes in your favorite battle royale game, watching as my gun somehow misses the person I'm aiming currently at, because of positional issues that also plague ESO.

Latency however is a little different. If I have a ping of 100ms that is static, then I will learn to play at that delay. So long as my ping remains about the same, then my perception of GCD and weaving will stay steady.

It's kind of like how gravity works. We're all standing on a giant ball that's spinning at 460 meters a second. So long as this stays constant, we're okay. The moment it slows or speeds up just a little, we get ripped apart.

In WoW these things don't happen, in LoA, in GW2 either... the server is very bad. what we've gotten used to... the same thing happens to me... only that the game goes well at dawn. What a shame.

DrSlaughtr · August 2022

miguelcura wrote: »

ninjagank wrote: »

Second, I do understand that lag is an issue. Lag is an issue in every connected game. I've hit lag spikes in your favorite battle royale game, watching as my gun somehow misses the person I'm aiming currently at, because of positional issues that also plague ESO.

Latency however is a little different. If I have a ping of 100ms that is static, then I will learn to play at that delay. So long as my ping remains about the same, then my perception of GCD and weaving will stay steady.

It's kind of like how gravity works. We're all standing on a giant ball that's spinning at 460 meters a second. So long as this stays constant, we're okay. The moment it slows or speeds up just a little, we get ripped apart.

In WoW these things don't happen, in LoA, in GW2 either... the server is very bad. what we've gotten used to... the same thing happens to me... only that the game goes well at dawn. What a shame.

Maybe not now, since they are not nearly as popular anymore, but I know for a fact that both those games suffered from performance issues as older hardware (server side AND client side) couldn't keep up with the software.

I don't okay on PC anymore but everyone I've talked to say performance got better with the hardware refresh. We haven't gotten it on console yet.

I can tell you this. There is a reason why I primarily stream in the afternoon ready than evening. I don't want to show the game lagging out and me getting mad. But they are rewriting the code for a game that is 8 years old. I'll give them the time to achieve this.

Having said that, even when the lag is at its worse, I don't usually have an issue with light, medium or heavy attacks. It's the skills that won't fire.