Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
RIP Templar
-
EnerG✭✭✭✭✭Hi if anyone is new here *waves as he enters*
Just to tell you that it's been perhaps the 5th time that Templar has been benched.
When the game began no one wanted Templars, oh they did, but only for healing.
Get your support sets ready and hope that your team will accept you as a 'buff bot'.
Also I saw this:good luck clearning vRGhm or getting Godslayer (or GH) with a bunch of players that cant hit 100k on the dummy...
Well, it just means you'll have to do things like at the launch of this trial a few years back. I assume the person is talking about last boss in Hardmode which is essentially a 'Time Attack' or wipe. We used to have to wear a debuff set downstairs and it worked and we were'nt hitting 100K DPS back then
Higher dps often can make it easier to deal with mechanics. Lower dps can also mean that a lot of people have to relearn several fights with a higher emphasis on mechanics, while also having to deal with new rotations.
Not my idea of making end game more accessible.
Oh no, actually doing the mechanics, how absurd 🙃2 -
MaraxusTheOrc✭✭✭✭✭As someone who just discovered a dps templar with oakensoul, after playing the class strictly as a healer:
My god the nerfs are necessary. It’s not even fair how mindless and yet powerful this build can be. Even without oakensoul, it is a monster of a build. It’s unbalanced. There’s nothing wrong with admitting the class as it exists is unbalanced.1 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daggerfell0929 wrote: »Templar is already hurting in mid-high-end groups especially as a DPS. They don't bring utility like necro or DK, they don't bring damage like warden or Stam sorc.
Now in the patch notes burning light proc has gotten hammered in addition to light attacks and dots nerf. NEFASQS had a higher parse using rapid strikes at 107.5k compared to jabs at 106k.
Templar needs something to offer the group in terms of being a dps or tank.
Every class is basically getting a nerf with the new combat systems, so relax. Templars are known for their high DPS with the easiest rotations available, so even if they're being outperformed, people will still play them due to ease of rotation.
That said, I agree, templars used to bring more to groups in terms of utility, but since Orbs energy synergy came along, Jesus beam getting nerfed, etc., templars really don't have much to offer a group in the way of group buffs other than minor sorcery. As a templar healer main, I'd gladly exchange some combat effectiveness for more group utility along the lines of what the Warden or Necro have to offer.0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daggerfell0929 wrote: »Templar is already hurting in mid-high-end groups especially as a DPS. They don't bring utility like necro or DK, they don't bring damage like warden or Stam sorc.
Now in the patch notes burning light proc has gotten hammered in addition to light attacks and dots nerf. NEFASQS had a higher parse using rapid strikes at 107.5k compared to jabs at 106k.
Templar needs something to offer the group in terms of being a dps or tank.
They don't even have a place as a healer that much anymore either, since there's other healing classes that bring more in terms of buffs, etc.
There hasn't been a place in mid- to high-end content for a very long time, and unless you're doing extremely high DPS on your templar, you play another class that can actually "contribute".
I'm a templar healer main and while I agree that Templar has less to offer in terms of group buffs, a templar healer is just so much easier to play than a Warden or Necro and, IMO, because of the way their heals work, I think they're a bit more reliable overall than either of those classes in terms of healing output, just because they utilize far less directional heals than the Warden, and are not overly reliant on the presence of a corpse to increase healing power, a la the Necro. At least that is how I feel after having played the other classes as a healer. I have a Warden healer and barely touch him just because I don't like the way he plays vs. my templar. With an extremely organized group, I can see it working, but that is an extremely rare group that can coordinate and be that disciplined.1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hi if anyone is new here *waves as he enters*
Just to tell you that it's been perhaps the 5th time that Templar has been benched.
When the game began no one wanted Templars, oh they did, but only for healing.
Get your support sets ready and hope that your team will accept you as a 'buff bot'.
Also I saw this:good luck clearning vRGhm or getting Godslayer (or GH) with a bunch of players that cant hit 100k on the dummy...
Well, it just means you'll have to do things like at the launch of this trial a few years back. I assume the person is talking about last boss in Hardmode which is essentially a 'Time Attack' or wipe. We used to have to wear a debuff set downstairs and it worked and we were'nt hitting 100K DPS back then
Higher dps often can make it easier to deal with mechanics. Lower dps can also mean that a lot of people have to relearn several fights with a higher emphasis on mechanics, while also having to deal with new rotations.
Not my idea of making end game more accessible.
Oh no, actually doing the mechanics, how absurd 🙃
You would be suprised, yes.0 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi if anyone is new here *waves as he enters*
Just to tell you that it's been perhaps the 5th time that Templar has been benched.
When the game began no one wanted Templars, oh they did, but only for healing.
Get your support sets ready and hope that your team will accept you as a 'buff bot'.
Also I saw this:good luck clearning vRGhm or getting Godslayer (or GH) with a bunch of players that cant hit 100k on the dummy...
Well, it just means you'll have to do things like at the launch of this trial a few years back. I assume the person is talking about last boss in Hardmode which is essentially a 'Time Attack' or wipe. We used to have to wear a debuff set downstairs and it worked and we were'nt hitting 100K DPS back then
Higher dps often can make it easier to deal with mechanics. Lower dps can also mean that a lot of people have to relearn several fights with a higher emphasis on mechanics, while also having to deal with new rotations.
Not my idea of making end game more accessible.
My experience has been that you'll always need some hard hitters, but it dosen't have to be everyone in the group.
Of course someone who is 'not participating' damage wise, won't help you that much.
I like mechanical play though as I've found it to bond players together a bit more than the rat race for dps
I'm getting off track now though and mixing everything up.
Don't worry Templars the sun will shine upon you again, brothers and sisters.Edited by Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo on August 11, 2022 3:03PM1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hi if anyone is new here *waves as he enters*
Just to tell you that it's been perhaps the 5th time that Templar has been benched.
When the game began no one wanted Templars, oh they did, but only for healing.
Get your support sets ready and hope that your team will accept you as a 'buff bot'.
Also I saw this:good luck clearning vRGhm or getting Godslayer (or GH) with a bunch of players that cant hit 100k on the dummy...
Well, it just means you'll have to do things like at the launch of this trial a few years back. I assume the person is talking about last boss in Hardmode which is essentially a 'Time Attack' or wipe. We used to have to wear a debuff set downstairs and it worked and we were'nt hitting 100K DPS back then
Higher dps often can make it easier to deal with mechanics. Lower dps can also mean that a lot of people have to relearn several fights with a higher emphasis on mechanics, while also having to deal with new rotations.
Not my idea of making end game more accessible.
My experience has been that you'll always need some hard hitters, but it dosen't have to be everyone in the group.
Of course someone who is 'not participating' damage wise, won't help you that much.
I like mechanical play though as I've found it to bond players together a bit more than the rat race for dps
I think it depends on the players also.
Back in the vmol days we had players who could just simply not do the twin bosses rotating mechanic, no matter how simply we tried explain it to them, they would eventually get confused and wipe the group.
Spending less time on a boss like that can be very beneficial, as it lessens the chances of someone screwing up.1 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi if anyone is new here *waves as he enters*
Just to tell you that it's been perhaps the 5th time that Templar has been benched.
When the game began no one wanted Templars, oh they did, but only for healing.
Get your support sets ready and hope that your team will accept you as a 'buff bot'.
Also I saw this:good luck clearning vRGhm or getting Godslayer (or GH) with a bunch of players that cant hit 100k on the dummy...
Well, it just means you'll have to do things like at the launch of this trial a few years back. I assume the person is talking about last boss in Hardmode which is essentially a 'Time Attack' or wipe. We used to have to wear a debuff set downstairs and it worked and we were'nt hitting 100K DPS back then
Higher dps often can make it easier to deal with mechanics. Lower dps can also mean that a lot of people have to relearn several fights with a higher emphasis on mechanics, while also having to deal with new rotations.
Not my idea of making end game more accessible.
My experience has been that you'll always need some hard hitters, but it dosen't have to be everyone in the group.
Of course someone who is 'not participating' damage wise, won't help you that much.
I like mechanical play though as I've found it to bond players together a bit more than the rat race for dps
I think it depends on the players also.
Back in the vmol days we had players who could just simply not do the twin bosses rotating mechanic, no matter how simply we tried explain it to them, they would eventually get confused and wipe the group.
Spending less time on a boss like that can be very beneficial, as it lessens the chances of someone screwing up.
Yeah it can be difficult for some people and I reckon many fail at those mechanics because they are worrying about a rotation or DPS. Peer pressure can affect a lot of people and you can hear the stress in their voices (RL for many years).
It's important to be as calm as possible and try to find people who thrive in that environment.
As an anecdote; I managed to get the lowering performing players of my guild to understand all these mechanics. I just took the time to explain and retry without getting angry. When I stopped organizing for various IRL reasons and also game issues, those people stopped raiding as they were not able to be accepted elsewhere for 10K DPS differences with existing members/and/or they didn't like the exclusive vibes from meta chasing groups and felt that no flexibility was present. (I can kinda get that)
To sum up my experience of lower performing members in a group:
-Environment and patience helps
-Find a hero player who can support you too
PS: I'm a middle man, always have been (intermediate)Edited by Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo on August 11, 2022 3:30PM3 -
Kirawolfe✭✭✭✭✭I love the new flurry animation too.
So you're happy it's the missed dual wield light attack animation?
Instead of an intense attack on the target - a 'flurry' of 'rapid strikes', if you will /s - you get much slower, wild 'hits' where half the time you're flailing above your head like you're having a tantrum?
All while the actual striking noise is desynchronized from what you're doing?
This is a good 'animation'?
It is not. Glad you love it though - I'm glad some folks aren't upset with what's being done.2 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Daggerfell0929 wrote: »Templar is already hurting in mid-high-end groups especially as a DPS. They don't bring utility like necro or DK, they don't bring damage like warden or Stam sorc.
Now in the patch notes burning light proc has gotten hammered in addition to light attacks and dots nerf. NEFASQS had a higher parse using rapid strikes at 107.5k compared to jabs at 106k.
Templar needs something to offer the group in terms of being a dps or tank.
"Templar is already hurting in mid-high-end groups especially as a DPS. They don't bring utility like necro or DK, they don't bring damage like warden or Stam sorc."
No it's not. I'm not having any issue keeping up with other classes in any group and neither are any of the other Templars I run with.
"Now in the patch notes burning light proc has gotten hammered in addition to light attacks and dots nerf. NEFASQS had a higher parse using rapid strikes at 107.5k compared to jabs at 106k."
Yes, every class got nerfed. 1.5k DPS is within the margin of error and means almost nothing.
"Templar needs something to offer the group in terms of being a dps or tank."
Coming from the author of the 'why I fake tank' thread, I'll be seeking other opinions on who should be tanking and what they should bring to the group.
It's almost like the OP doesn't play Templar and formed their opinion watching content creators who capitalize on outrage. Just a rule of thumb: If the youtuber is posting 'RIP Jabs' thumbnails with their mouths wide open, the opinion you're about to get is probably not carefully considered.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"3 -
Galiferno✭✭✭✭✭Classed get nerfed and buffed in time, play whats enjoyable, nobody needs a 100k+ parse, content can be cleared with any dps. If the parse is whats enjoyable to you then play an alt, but if itd Templar thats enjoyable then play it anyway.
Have you done any vet/hard mode dlc trials? Do you have any sympathy for tanks at that level of content? People wonder why there's so many fake tanks in dungeons but then when people have this mentality it totally drives away real tanks from pugs and encourages them to play with their groups who do actually put in effort into the game and want to contribute as much as they can to the group. Some trifectas are literally impossible without higher parsers and good luck getting Xalvakka HM without good DPS. When bosses have over 200 million health and tanks are forced to play at a high level or risk wiping the group, we expect DPS to also play at a high level. It is not fair at all to expect so much from tanks and want to take it easy as a DPS when doing hard mode trials. This is why "gatekeeping" exists, to make sure we roster players who genuinely care about the run and the group.4 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Daggerfell0929 wrote: »Templar is already hurting in mid-high-end groups especially as a DPS. They don't bring utility like necro or DK, they don't bring damage like warden or Stam sorc.
Now in the patch notes burning light proc has gotten hammered in addition to light attacks and dots nerf. NEFASQS had a higher parse using rapid strikes at 107.5k compared to jabs at 106k.
Templar needs something to offer the group in terms of being a dps or tank.
"Templar is already hurting in mid-high-end groups especially as a DPS. They don't bring utility like necro or DK, they don't bring damage like warden or Stam sorc."
No it's not. I'm not having any issue keeping up with other classes in any group and neither are any of the other Templars I run with.
"Now in the patch notes burning light proc has gotten hammered in addition to light attacks and dots nerf. NEFASQS had a higher parse using rapid strikes at 107.5k compared to jabs at 106k."
Yes, every class got nerfed. 1.5k DPS is within the margin of error and means almost nothing.
"Templar needs something to offer the group in terms of being a dps or tank."
Coming from the author of the 'why I fake tank' thread, I'll be seeking other opinions on who should be tanking and what they should bring to the group.
It's almost like the OP doesn't play Templar and formed their opinion watching content creators who capitalize on outrage. Just a rule of thumb: If the youtuber is posting 'RIP Jabs' thumbnails with their mouths wide open, the opinion you're about to get is probably not carefully considered.
Jabs being in line with other spammables looks good on paper, and the damage is made up for by running more dots for example, but it's not like the 40% nerf left the skill better off than it was.
That being said pve dps is not the only place this skill is used, and in pvp we didnt get much to compensate for the colossal nerf.
Yes it was a strong skill that enabled a lot of simple but deadly 1 button style gameplay, but its not like we can now suddenly line up fantastic burst combos in pvp.
It's also worth considering that major evasion still reduces the damage the skill does, in the past major evasion brought jabs damage in line with other spammables, but now its going to be significantly weaker.5 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭ESO is finally fixing its AoE vs. Single target skills. Making AoE do less damage to a single target but overall more damage than a single target ability would when you have multiple enemies within the ability AoE.
I think that puncture sweep and biting jabs AoE should be smaller with both producing more damage.
I hope the devs go back and modiy dungeons and trials by adding fodder type enemies during each phase to ensure that players AoE skills used don't go to waste.
This is the only MMO game where single target damage seems the most important. Most other games I played you always brought at least AoE damage dealer through dungeon runs.
0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Classed get nerfed and buffed in time, play whats enjoyable, nobody needs a 100k+ parse, content can be cleared with any dps. If the parse is whats enjoyable to you then play an alt, but if itd Templar thats enjoyable then play it anyway.
seriously... just stop.
good luck clearning vRGhm or getting Godslayer (or GH) with a bunch of players that cant hit 100k on the dummy...
Groups were getting Godslayer long before 100k DPS was obtainable.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Daggerfell0929 wrote: »Templar is already hurting in mid-high-end groups especially as a DPS. They don't bring utility like necro or DK, they don't bring damage like warden or Stam sorc.
Now in the patch notes burning light proc has gotten hammered in addition to light attacks and dots nerf. NEFASQS had a higher parse using rapid strikes at 107.5k compared to jabs at 106k.
Templar needs something to offer the group in terms of being a dps or tank.
They don't even have a place as a healer that much anymore either, since there's other healing classes that bring more in terms of buffs, etc.
There hasn't been a place in mid- to high-end content for a very long time, and unless you're doing extremely high DPS on your templar, you play another class that can actually "contribute".
I'm a templar healer main and while I agree that Templar has less to offer in terms of group buffs, a templar healer is just so much easier to play than a Warden or Necro and, IMO, because of the way their heals work, I think they're a bit more reliable overall than either of those classes in terms of healing output, just because they utilize far less directional heals than the Warden, and are not overly reliant on the presence of a corpse to increase healing power, a la the Necro. At least that is how I feel after having played the other classes as a healer. I have a Warden healer and barely touch him just because I don't like the way he plays vs. my templar. With an extremely organized group, I can see it working, but that is an extremely rare group that can coordinate and be that disciplined.
Yes! I couldn't agree more. In a chaos group it makes it so much easier to support the players.
PS5/NA0 -
deleted221205-002626✭✭✭✭✭Ive always loved templar infact I only have 1 toon.. templar! Its had its ups and down but nothing like it was in the beginning.1
-
Amerises✭✭✭✭Classed get nerfed and buffed in time, play whats enjoyable, nobody needs a 100k+ parse, content can be cleared with any dps. If the parse is whats enjoyable to you then play an alt, but if itd Templar thats enjoyable then play it anyway.
Have you done any vet/hard mode dlc trials? Do you have any sympathy for tanks at that level of content? People wonder why there's so many fake tanks in dungeons but then when people have this mentality it totally drives away real tanks from pugs and encourages them to play with their groups who do actually put in effort into the game and want to contribute as much as they can to the group. Some trifectas are literally impossible without higher parsers and good luck getting Xalvakka HM without good DPS. When bosses have over 200 million health and tanks are forced to play at a high level or risk wiping the group, we expect DPS to also play at a high level. It is not fair at all to expect so much from tanks and want to take it easy as a DPS when doing hard mode trials. This is why "gatekeeping" exists, to make sure we roster players who genuinely care about the run and the group.
I love tanking, and have for every vet dlc dungeon and about half vet trials. I hate groups that can’t dps. I love tanking, but dps honestly has the easiest job. Healing well and tanking well are even more challenging if the dps isn’t doing their job.
1 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »ESO is finally fixing its AoE vs. Single target skills. Making AoE do less damage to a single target but overall more damage than a single target ability would when you have multiple enemies within the ability AoE.
I think that puncture sweep and biting jabs AoE should be smaller with both producing more damage.
I hope the devs go back and modiy dungeons and trials by adding fodder type enemies during each phase to ensure that players AoE skills used don't go to waste.
This is the only MMO game where single target damage seems the most important. Most other games I played you always brought at least AoE damage dealer through dungeon runs.
Remove cleave from Jabs and Sweeps, and it would hardly be noticed.
The only useful part of the cleave was Sweeps healing yourself in large trash mobs.
The purpose of a spammable is to do high consistent DPS, but also to be usable in PvP burst rotations.
How are melee Templars supposed to kill enemy PvPers with pool noodle damage from their spammable?
ZOS should have separated PvP and PvE entirely.3 -
shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Templars must be doing something right. Today I was called a filthy spamming jab monkey while pvping. He said he couldn't wait till Templars were nerfed.
Sadly he gets his wish soon.0 -
Galiferno✭✭✭✭✭Classed get nerfed and buffed in time, play whats enjoyable, nobody needs a 100k+ parse, content can be cleared with any dps. If the parse is whats enjoyable to you then play an alt, but if itd Templar thats enjoyable then play it anyway.
Have you done any vet/hard mode dlc trials? Do you have any sympathy for tanks at that level of content? People wonder why there's so many fake tanks in dungeons but then when people have this mentality it totally drives away real tanks from pugs and encourages them to play with their groups who do actually put in effort into the game and want to contribute as much as they can to the group. Some trifectas are literally impossible without higher parsers and good luck getting Xalvakka HM without good DPS. When bosses have over 200 million health and tanks are forced to play at a high level or risk wiping the group, we expect DPS to also play at a high level. It is not fair at all to expect so much from tanks and want to take it easy as a DPS when doing hard mode trials. This is why "gatekeeping" exists, to make sure we roster players who genuinely care about the run and the group.
I love tanking, and have for every vet dlc dungeon and about half vet trials. I hate groups that can’t dps. I love tanking, but dps honestly has the easiest job. Healing well and tanking well are even more challenging if the dps isn’t doing their job.
I completely agree. I've tanked every hard mode trial except vDSR and am working on my second trifecta now and the biggest factor in the success of my groups is whether the DPS is high enough to make runs smooth and easy. There's a reason the best tanks are selective with who they run and DPS who don't even try to improve should not feel entitled to good tanks in their runs.1 -
nb_rich✭✭✭As long as They dont remove or nerf major brutality into a minor buff im fine with everything else. It feels so good not always having to pop weapon potions just to do more damage.nb_rich0 -
Auldwulfe✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love the new flurry animation too.
So you're happy it's the missed dual wield light attack animation?
Instead of an intense attack on the target - a 'flurry' of 'rapid strikes', if you will /s - you get much slower, wild 'hits' where half the time you're flailing above your head like you're having a tantrum?
All while the actual striking noise is desynchronized from what you're doing?
This is a good 'animation'?
It is not. Glad you love it though - I'm glad some folks aren't upset with what's being done.
I've already heard people referring to it as "swinging like a meth addict" ---- so, yeah, I agree, it isn't that great.
On the plus side, the Orc with the two maces doesn't like quite so odd
AuldwulfeEdited by Auldwulfe on August 12, 2022 7:54PM0 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭shadyjane62 wrote: »Templars must be doing something right. Today I was called a filthy spamming jab monkey while pvping. He said he couldn't wait till Templars were nerfed.
Sadly he gets his wish soon.
Honestly the funniest bit about this is how easy jabs are to avoid in PvP (I say as a filthy spamming jabs monkey).2
