BejaProphet wrote: »

Sad truth is that many players won’t let you tank until the content makes them need a tank.

When speaking of normal dungeons, that OP says their tanks can do well, it is not really needed, but I have not seen groups try to kick a real tank from them. Nor have I seen anyone want to kick a real tank for any vet dungeons.

I will just repeat what is often suggested: finding a guild you like and running with guildmates is much less stressful compared to a lot of PUGs.

As a mostly-DPS player, it’s still frustrating to get a PUG on a speed run. Mag characters aren’t built for speed. So I throw on Ring of the Wild Hunt, which reduces my damage and makes the dungeon run longer than it needs to be. Not an issue in FG1 ir other base game normals. But you get Scallecaller or the Lady Thorn dungeons, and you want damage to be up.

Based entirely on personal experience in delves and soloing dungeons, they actually feel a bit faster the faster I can kill things vs. using Ring of the Wild Hunt to speed through. Except for Gloomreach in The Reach where you can usually run by many of the enemies without triggering them.

I hear you! I only tank with a group that is going to support me in my role (at least not running ahead — I kick or leave when dps continue to do that regardless of what role I’m in). Mostly I play as a healer where my job priorities are 1) Support the tank, followed by 2) Keep everyone alive. I remember one vet dungeon where the tank, and then me too, would stand in the doorway and watch as one of the dps would rush in for their yolo pull and death. I only tried to save them the first time, then said they should wait for the tank. Oh well, at least in that particular circumstance it was only amusing since it only delayed things and didn’t ruin the dungeon for the rest of us!

ixthUA wrote: »

In normal dungeons bosses hp and damage are very low, DDs solo them and don't need the rest of the group, so they just rush ahead.
In vet dungeons bosses have 2-6 mln life, so DDs want buffs from healer and tank. Also some bosses will 1-shot a healer/DD, so again a tank is wanted.
In vet dungeons the worst case scenario is that you get 2 fake DDs, if that happens - just quit and queue again.
In normal dungeons healer is as useless as a tank.

This is quite accurate, but also kind of horrible, since it makes learning to heal and tank extremely hard. The choices for tank / healer are basically: A) the content where they're irrelevant at best, useless at worst, or B ) content where they are wanted / needed, but have to be already good at their role (or get yelled at / kicked).

Wish all those self important dingleberries, who can't spare extra couple seconds in low end normals to let low level / beginner tank taunt the boss and stack adds, remembered their selfishness when they can't find decent tank for their vet trial group. Same with healers. It's like half of playerbase wishes they didn't even exist in normal content, then came out of the woodwork in time for vet all geared out and perfect.

KaGaOri wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

In normal dungeons bosses hp and damage are very low, DDs solo them and don't need the rest of the group, so they just rush ahead.
In vet dungeons bosses have 2-6 mln life, so DDs want buffs from healer and tank. Also some bosses will 1-shot a healer/DD, so again a tank is wanted.
In vet dungeons the worst case scenario is that you get 2 fake DDs, if that happens - just quit and queue again.
In normal dungeons healer is as useless as a tank.

This is quite accurate, but also kind of horrible, since it makes learning to heal and tank extremely hard. The choices for tank / healer are basically: A) the content where they're irrelevant at best, useless at worst, or B ) content where they are wanted / needed, but have to be already good at their role (or get yelled at / kicked).

Wish all those self important dingleberries, who can't spare extra couple seconds in low end normals to let low level / beginner tank taunt the boss and stack adds, remembered their selfishness when they can't find decent tank for their vet trial group. Same with healers. It's like half of playerbase wishes they didn't even exist in normal content, then came out of the woodwork in time for vet all geared out and perfect.

Let's not blame players for playing the game the way it's been made by ZOS, shall we?

ZOS made it so that the best source of resources highly sought-after at high levels (transmutes) is random NORMALS. You put same valueable reward behind quick easy content or behind harder and longer one, which are people going to run? Especially considering you can run it over and over on multiple characters? As much as I personally prefer vets, if the goal is farming crystals/xp, queueing for vet is effectively punishing oneself. It isn't players going out of their way to exploit something, it's Zenimax consciously making a design decision that encourages players to farm the hell out of random normals. Personally I think that vet players should be encouraged to run vet content, not feel punished for it, but we have what we have.

ZOS also made said normals so absurdly easy they don't require a tank nor a healer for most groups (especially those high CP people who are farming them in droves), which leads to both the problem of fake tanks/healers and the problem of proper tank/healers being unable to learn. Also the problem of normal vs vet dungeon difficulty gap that can be way too huge and hard to bridge for newer players.

There're such things as common etiquette which entail not speeding ahead skipping all the things if someone said they have quest and not pulling/killing the bosses til everyone gets there/close to there, but to expect people running their random normal #5 out of 9 to stop and wait for a newbie tank to stack the adds? Those adds you can kill without even stopping, just by dropping some AoEs as they run through? Let's be reasonable here, this just isn't going to happen as long as this insane farming is going on, ain't no one got time for that.

To OP - if you want actual coherent tanking/healing experience, run vet dungeons. Better yet, vet dlc. In this content most groups, even pugs, will generally wait for tank before pulling (and if they don't, you can always let them pull and watch them get one-shot) and there will be no speedrunning to last boss. Contrary to popular belief, most of them on non HM aren't that horrible and are actually a great place for practice. With latest dungeon dlcs in particular, they seem to be aiming for easy vet dungeons with the challenging part being all in the HM. Cauldron, Black Drake Villa, Red Petal, Icereach, Castle Thorn, Stone Garden - those are all very doable with a non perfect group/setup. They have some heavy attacks that can one-shot you if you don't block and a few mechanics here and there but nothing overly punishing (unless you activate HM) or complicated. Enough to make a tank matter but not enough to make him want to suicide from 1269727921 mechs he needs to follow at once (there's HM for that). Vet dlcs do have their caveats, especially if you pug them, but if you want to actually feel needed as a tank, that's where you go.

Getting a real tank in the PUG in recent months has always been more of a surprise. It can also disrupt the way people behave in dungeons.
If they are not used to a party with a tank, then they behave accordingly.

It's a vicious circle, Lack of tanks -> fake tanks -> people get used to playing in a way unpleasant for tanks -> Lack of tanks.

I just don't understand why with each update ZOS is looking for new ways to ruin the lives of tanks.

In the next update, with the armory system, i am looking forward to tanking vet dungeons on my warden.

bathynomusESO wrote: »

So, I've made 2 tanks. 1 Warden and 1 Dragonknight. They can do normal dungeons very well, with high resists, armor, shields, health, etc. However, most people seem to want speed runs and I am not built for that. DPS going in first to aggro everything, then they die and complain. No thanks. To you guys that continue to tank for us, thank you. Tanking WoW raids was less complicated to hold aggro on everything.

Some people run random normals every day on every character for transmutes. No one has the time for you to rp as the big beefy tank walking everywhere in fungal grotto 1 normal. Healing is just as stressful when you get a tank with no taunt and people decide they don't want to move out of aoes. Best tip anyone can give you is to run a more DPS oriented build but just slot a taunt and maybe rally or something in case you get a fake healer. Absolutely nobody cares that you have 50k hp when we're doing content where I can run ahead aggro 20 enemies and then one shot them all with dawnbreaker.