Done with tanking, less stressful to heal or dps.

bathynomusESO

So, I've made 2 tanks. 1 Warden and 1 Dragonknight. They can do normal dungeons very well, with high resists, armor, shields, health, etc. However, most people seem to want speed runs and I am not built for that. DPS going in first to aggro everything, then they die and complain. No thanks. To you guys that continue to tank for us, thank you. Tanking WoW raids was less complicated to hold aggro on everything.

BejaProphet

Sad truth is that many players won’t let you tank until the content makes them need a tank.

For some that means veteran. For yet others that means not until vet DLC dungeons. I would encourage to see if you have a better experience running veteran dungeons. But if not, I hope you have fun in whatever role you choose.

Amottica

BejaProphet wrote: »

Sad truth is that many players won’t let you tank until the content makes them need a tank.

When speaking of normal dungeons, that OP says their tanks can do well, it is not really needed, but I have not seen groups try to kick a real tank from them. Nor have I seen anyone want to kick a real tank for any vet dungeons.

BejaProphet

When I say “they won’t let you,” I do not mean to suggest that they kick you. I mean they rush ahead and don’t give you the chance to do the things a tank should do.

Sambucca1973

I will just repeat what is often suggested: finding a guild you like and running with guildmates is much less stressful compared to a lot of PUGs.

As a mostly-DPS player, it’s still frustrating to get a PUG on a speed run. Mag characters aren’t built for speed. So I throw on Ring of the Wild Hunt, which reduces my damage and makes the dungeon run longer than it needs to be. Not an issue in FG1 ir other base game normals. But you get Scallecaller or the Lady Thorn dungeons, and you want damage to be up.

Based entirely on personal experience in delves and soloing dungeons, they actually feel a bit faster the faster I can kill things vs. using Ring of the Wild Hunt to speed through. Except for Gloomreach in The Reach where you can usually run by many of the enemies without triggering them.

Jaimeh

Yeah, the rushing sucks for tanks, especially if they're new and they're trying to learn how to make good stacks of mobs, etc. It makes you feel useless as a tank. But don't let that discourage you OP, as it mostly happens in normal dungeons, because in vet the DDs will wait for the tank to pull first, and you won't have to stress about gathering up mobs that someone pulled first and are now running all over the place. So if you like the role, I'd say stick to it, and when you will start doing vet content you'll find that you won't get the YOLO DDs that you see a lot of in normals (it happens but it's rarer, and usually in PUG runs). And you could also level a DD and slot a taunt for normals, so you can set the pace, and also hold aggro at the same time. As a role, I personally find healing more stressful, because if someone dies even if they were standing in red etc., you do feel like you failed them and were to blame somehow (the 'it's always the healer's fault' thing ).

Araneae6537

I hear you! I only tank with a group that is going to support me in my role (at least not running ahead — I kick or leave when dps continue to do that regardless of what role I’m in). Mostly I play as a healer where my job priorities are 1) Support the tank, followed by 2) Keep everyone alive. I remember one vet dungeon where the tank, and then me too, would stand in the doorway and watch as one of the dps would rush in for their yolo pull and death. I only tried to save them the first time, then said they should wait for the tank. Oh well, at least in that particular circumstance it was only amusing since it only delayed things and didn’t ruin the dungeon for the rest of us!

ixthUA

In normal dungeons bosses hp and damage are very low, DDs solo them and don't need the rest of the group, so they just rush ahead.
In vet dungeons bosses have 2-6 mln life, so DDs want buffs from healer and tank. Also some bosses will 1-shot a healer/DD, so again a tank is wanted.
In vet dungeons the worst case scenario is that you get 2 fake DDs, if that happens - just quit and queue again.
In normal dungeons healer is as useless as tank.

KaGaOri

ixthUA wrote: »

In normal dungeons bosses hp and damage are very low, DDs solo them and don't need the rest of the group, so they just rush ahead.
In vet dungeons bosses have 2-6 mln life, so DDs want buffs from healer and tank. Also some bosses will 1-shot a healer/DD, so again a tank is wanted.
In vet dungeons the worst case scenario is that you get 2 fake DDs, if that happens - just quit and queue again.
In normal dungeons healer is as useless as a tank.

This is quite accurate, but also kind of horrible, since it makes learning to heal and tank extremely hard. The choices for tank / healer are basically: A) the content where they're irrelevant at best, useless at worst, or B ) content where they are wanted / needed, but have to be already good at their role (or get yelled at / kicked).

Wish all those self important dingleberries, who can't spare extra couple seconds in low end normals to let low level / beginner tank taunt the boss and stack adds, remembered their selfishness when they can't find decent tank for their vet trial group. Same with healers. It's like half of playerbase wishes they didn't even exist in normal content, then came out of the woodwork in time for vet all geared out and perfect.

ixthUA

I spent half of year in normal dungeons as a healer, but ended up dpsing anyway and occasionally healing. Cannot say i learned much from that time.
In veteran dungeons many bosses don't require much healing, so team will be fine even if healer dies. From my vet dungeon runs i learned to keep buffs/debuffs up and occasionally healing.

Magdalina

KaGaOri wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

In normal dungeons bosses hp and damage are very low, DDs solo them and don't need the rest of the group, so they just rush ahead.
In vet dungeons bosses have 2-6 mln life, so DDs want buffs from healer and tank. Also some bosses will 1-shot a healer/DD, so again a tank is wanted.
In vet dungeons the worst case scenario is that you get 2 fake DDs, if that happens - just quit and queue again.
In normal dungeons healer is as useless as a tank.

This is quite accurate, but also kind of horrible, since it makes learning to heal and tank extremely hard. The choices for tank / healer are basically: A) the content where they're irrelevant at best, useless at worst, or B ) content where they are wanted / needed, but have to be already good at their role (or get yelled at / kicked).

Wish all those self important dingleberries, who can't spare extra couple seconds in low end normals to let low level / beginner tank taunt the boss and stack adds, remembered their selfishness when they can't find decent tank for their vet trial group. Same with healers. It's like half of playerbase wishes they didn't even exist in normal content, then came out of the woodwork in time for vet all geared out and perfect.

Let's not blame players for playing the game the way it's been made by ZOS, shall we?

ZOS made it so that the best source of resources highly sought-after at high levels (transmutes) is random NORMALS. You put same valueable reward behind quick easy content or behind harder and longer one, which are people going to run? Especially considering you can run it over and over on multiple characters? As much as I personally prefer vets, if the goal is farming crystals/xp, queueing for vet is effectively punishing oneself. It isn't players going out of their way to exploit something, it's Zenimax consciously making a design decision that encourages players to farm the hell out of random normals. Personally I think that vet players should be encouraged to run vet content, not feel punished for it, but we have what we have.

ZOS also made said normals so absurdly easy they don't require a tank nor a healer for most groups (especially those high CP people who are farming them in droves), which leads to both the problem of fake tanks/healers and the problem of proper tank/healers being unable to learn. Also the problem of normal vs vet dungeon difficulty gap that can be way too huge and hard to bridge for newer players.

There're such things as common etiquette which entail not speeding ahead skipping all the things if someone said they have quest and not pulling/killing the bosses til everyone gets there/close to there, but to expect people running their random normal #5 out of 9 to stop and wait for a newbie tank to stack the adds? Those adds you can kill without even stopping, just by dropping some AoEs as they run through? Let's be reasonable here, this just isn't going to happen as long as this insane farming is going on, ain't no one got time for that.

To OP - if you want actual coherent tanking/healing experience, run vet dungeons. Better yet, vet dlc. In this content most groups, even pugs, will generally wait for tank before pulling (and if they don't, you can always let them pull and watch them get one-shot) and there will be no speedrunning to last boss. Contrary to popular belief, most of them on non HM aren't that horrible and are actually a great place for practice. With latest dungeon dlcs in particular, they seem to be aiming for easy vet dungeons with the challenging part being all in the HM. Cauldron, Black Drake Villa, Red Petal, Icereach, Castle Thorn, Stone Garden - those are all very doable with a non perfect group/setup. They have some heavy attacks that can one-shot you if you don't block and a few mechanics here and there but nothing overly punishing (unless you activate HM) or complicated. Enough to make a tank matter but not enough to make him want to suicide from 1269727921 mechs he needs to follow at once (there's HM for that). Vet dlcs do have their caveats, especially if you pug them, but if you want to actually feel needed as a tank, that's where you go.

GuildedLilly

It's not perfect, but one thing I've taken to doing on my tanks in random normal is is slotting rapid maneuver, or the NB movement speed buff for my sap tanks--it lets me get in front of, or at least alongside, the dps in time to taunt and turn.

Everyone who's said vet dungeons are where tanks are needed & dps are more willing to wait for buffs and positioning are correct--but if you want to run normals, slotting something that lets you move quickly is very helpful, otherwise you'll be slogging behind the group trying to catch up while random adds and mobs focus you as the rest of the 'team' sprints ahead. Speed runs can be fun...you've just gotta be prepared to go FAST.

Elendir2am

Getting a real tank in the PUG in recent months has always been more of a surprise. It can also disrupt the way people behave in dungeons.
If they are not used to a party with a tank, then they behave accordingly.

It's a vicious circle, Lack of tanks -> fake tanks -> people get used to playing in a way unpleasant for tanks -> Lack of tanks.

I just don't understand why with each update ZOS is looking for new ways to ruin the lives of tanks.

BejaProphet

I think your analysis is spot on, but I think we tanks have gotten some great stuff the last couple patches. I think the life of a tank is getting better.

ixthUA

In the next update, with the armory system, i am looking forward to tanking vet dungeons on my warden.

AvalonRanger

bathynomusESO wrote: »

So, I've made 2 tanks. 1 Warden and 1 Dragonknight. They can do normal dungeons very well, with high resists, armor, shields, health, etc. However, most people seem to want speed runs and I am not built for that. DPS going in first to aggro everything, then they die and complain. No thanks. To you guys that continue to tank for us, thank you. Tanking WoW raids was less complicated to hold aggro on everything.

Just keep running with DPS, then amazing amount of mobs keep flowing with you.
But, It's OK....

Turn back and use Flawless Dawn Breaker against them. And stab everything by taunt skill.
Maybe, this will work only for DK tank.

Lynxyn

bathynomusESO wrote: »

So, I've made 2 tanks. 1 Warden and 1 Dragonknight. They can do normal dungeons very well, with high resists, armor, shields, health, etc. However, most people seem to want speed runs and I am not built for that. DPS going in first to aggro everything, then they die and complain. No thanks. To you guys that continue to tank for us, thank you. Tanking WoW raids was less complicated to hold aggro on everything.

Some people run random normals every day on every character for transmutes. No one has the time for you to rp as the big beefy tank walking everywhere in fungal grotto 1 normal. Healing is just as stressful when you get a tank with no taunt and people decide they don't want to move out of aoes. Best tip anyone can give you is to run a more DPS oriented build but just slot a taunt and maybe rally or something in case you get a fake healer. Absolutely nobody cares that you have 50k hp when we're doing content where I can run ahead aggro 20 enemies and then one shot them all with dawnbreaker.

AvalonRanger

Gathering many of mobs with DPS, and use DawnBreaker ultimate.
Then, many of mobs disappear at once. When I do DK class tanking
with over CP1K players, I usually use this method.