Dark Convergence - done with this game until it's gone

Sluggy · August 2022

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

DC is definitely an annoying, and brainless set to exist in PvP. However, like others have said, the mechanic is simple enough to get out of. The problem is that it becomes uncouterable when used with Plgauebreak/VD and Occult Overload. Simply blocking or roll dodging does nothing when you're deleted in 1 shot. The combination is entirely op, and allows players to gain access to ridiculous damage without much skill.

The power doesn't come from the damage. It never did. The power comes from the ability to make an on-demand chokepoint as well as the ability to take control out of the opponent's hands - even if just for a second. Used by good players in the appropriate situation it will never fail and can be used to great effect on any quantity of targets, including one.

Lynxyn · August 2022

KiloCrown wrote: »

Dark Convergence ruined this game's potential imo. I played this game religiously through thick and thin times since 2015, primarily PvP. Despite the many setbacks others have had with changes made over the years, I never minded really minded myself. I definitely had frustrations at times but I ultimately still made the best of them and had fun. I'm nowhere near being one of the great PvPers but I can handle losing and still have fun, so this isn't just a salty post. So many fun memories in PvP - wins and epic losses! But everything changed for me when dark convergence came out.

Whole fun fights just get sucked into it and decimated with a few ultimates. What used to be a fun PvP experience with drawn-out, adrenalin-pumping combat is now, for me at least, completely contingent on whether that set is around or not. When dark convergence is around, there is no fun battle flow anymore - you're just pulled out of combat so frequently and frankly, pulled out of the in-game world experience that takes you away from your real-world troubles.

I've taken several breaks from eso since dark convergence's arrival hoping to come back to it being nerfed or removed. I came for the PvP so I can only stay distracted by PvE content for so long. Now that I'm realizing this set is here to stay, I'm honestly thinking this just isn't the game for me anymore. I'm sure it's dramatic - all over one set. It just ruins the whole experience for me and I'm really that disappointed in the kind of PvP play it has led to - what it was before and what it is now.

Can literally just block the pull and walk out.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Lynxyn · August 2022

FluffWit wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Decent health, block/dodge roll out or just walk out.

It can be annoying but it can be overcome.

Absolutely not true. If you're near the heart of a Colossus proc dodge roll is not going to get you out. If you're not on cc immunity you can't block because you're stunned.

I spent a couple hours today on a full tank pve build in Cyrodiil. All my deaths were DC procs.

The meta gankers cant kill me. I shrug off Cold Fire like it's nothing. But a decent dc proc will kill me every time. By decent I mean one that's also hitting several other players. Its damage stacks and you have the vd proc from the squishy people on top of that and the size of the AoE prevents you getting out and the stun preventing you blocking and.... theres simply no counter play whe someone who knows what they're doing procs it.

It's not just DC though. The Colossus simply deals too much damage over too short a time. It's ridiculous how hard that thing hits. Which is why every dc bomber is a necro rn.

Lmao what? The pull and stun doesn't happen for a full second after the most blatant visual effect in the entire game appears under you. You literally can block this set and walk out of it.

Wolfpaw · August 2022

Play no-proc.

deleted221205-002626 · August 2022

I know how yur feeling but its not dcon.. Its rush of agony's pull and not applying cc immunity so any dcon after pulls u right back in.

dmnqwk · August 2022

Red_Feather wrote: »

dmnqwk wrote: »

I gotta say this thread reminds me of how silly pvp could be in Guild Wars 1. The fun of searing flames wrecking pvp, or touch rangers... or the hilariously broken whirling dervish.

Pvp is always about finding ways to cheat the system - not enough is done to create a level playing field in any MMO you play.

I used to love logging into guild wars and entering observer mode to watch the top pvp matches of that day. A great system.

I liked alliance battles in guild wars, I used to use a longbow and degen snipe for like -10 degen on enemies as they ran away. (I did a bit of thumping, touch ranger etc too but definitely loved degen sniping the most). I also still loved the fact I interrupted a 0.25s cast time spell doing 8v8 on a mesmer once haha.

Firstmep · August 2022

Its worth mentioning, that in big fights or if there is lag, the visual often doesnt show up before the pull happens.
It's easy to say just block and walk out, but we all know the game can be insanely unresponsive at times.
I am not sure how I feel about all the aoe procs and pull sets these days, they have become pretty much mandatory for anything outside super small scale fights.
Plagubreak, dc, agony , occult overload, CD are basically everywhere, even in bgs( well not occult overload).
Kinda makes pvp very one dimensional, as other playstyles just arent really doing much.

HowlKimchi · August 2022

I've never had a problem with DC... But maybe because I don't enjoy grouping with zergs. If I do get pulled in, it's not that hard to react to, and If I do get pulled in and I die because of VD or something else (and that's happened before) then it's fine... That one's on me.

lunaslide · August 2022

sinnereso wrote: »

I know how yur feeling but its not dcon.. Its rush of agony's pull and not applying cc immunity so any dcon after pulls u right back in.

Sometimes, but mostly not. I use Rush in PvE, know how it works, seen it in PvP. Most of the time it's simply DC+VD or DC+PB and occult overload multiplied by several players procing it with colossus. I'm usually in a three or four person group, not a zerg. It's killed just me with my spirit mender before because of OO+PB, and with lag Slippery didn't even automatically CC break.

Tonight in Blackreach a new-to-pvp player asked in zone chat "Is this really all that pvp is here, being sucked into a purple ball and being bombed?" Just a few days into it and that was his impression.

Why is DC and PB in BGs anyway? It was all created to counter large groups.

WoppaBoem · August 2022

I agree with you 100%. I loved the fact really dedicated team could create choke point negate and ulti dump. It required close coordination and earned respect. Outside of this scope battles where won by fighting, healing seige some luck and some skill and was so great fun. Today its just waiting for which alliance losses the most first by a bomb and then its usually decided which alliance wins the first. Its so boring and mostly really unfun. I find myself never going into Cyro for longer than a hour. I still play BG's and Imp city but I do also feel my time is coming to an end with this game. Fights are simply not fun anymore.

kind_hero · August 2022

The set is fun for a short while.

I am not a dedicated PvPer (rank 21, playing since launch), but I can relate with the OP's experience. It's annoying. Especially the DC+Colossus ulti combo, or anything that also stuns. There is no skill involved, just a bunch of people wearing this set and wrecking entire groups with a proc. To me it this set makes group PvP feel broken. I guess this set would be awesome in PvE, to grind packs of mobs and the fun factor, seeing them blow up. What I hate about this set is how it pulls you to a spot. Feels like a glitch to me.

TechMaybeHic · August 2022

KiloCrown wrote: »

okay im logging in... BUT AS SOON AS I SEE DC IM OUT

That had to last 5 minutes. Or however long it took to get to a fight

BXR_Lonestar · August 2022

Yeah, Dark Convergence has reached obnoxious levels in Black Reach. It is just not fun getting blown up. I've played a decent amount of PVP and know how to avoid DC procs and how to survive them, but there is no avoiding/surviving them when your fighting a 30 on 30 fight, and literally - EVERYONE you are facing is using it.

Dark Convergence was made to be a zerg buster, but its being used by zergs now to crush everyone, and so I think Zos missed its mark by a long shot. IMO, the set needs to be reworked so that the proc area, duration of stun/snare get exponentially smaller with each person in your group. When there are 6 or more in the group, the area should be so small as to be completely worthless. This would ensure that it is only being used against very very small groups to combat zergs.

And Zos needs to understand, the best way to counter zergs are with strong seige. Give us sets that massively boost combat effectiveness with siege - particularly anti-personnel siege, with no other bonuses that really help with combat effectiveness while off of siege, and a few smart players can eradicate a zerg without the sets getting exploited by zerg because its not advantageous to have a numbers advantage while ALSO being immobile.

TechMaybeHic · August 2022

I really don't care about being blown up by DC. Or just being blown up. Again; it's just the gameplay of avoid circles until overwhelmed by them then hold block to try not to be pulled, get pulled anyway, hikd block and try to move out.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · August 2022

*waves to the newer players*

Well guys, good luck because it's just:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15QngStkp-E&ab_channel=VladimirGanchev

(Our conversations on the forum are rather revolving)

Remathilis · August 2022

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

DC is definitely an annoying, and brainless set to exist in PvP. However, like others have said, the mechanic is simple enough to get out of. The problem is that it becomes uncounterable when used with Plaguebreak/VD and Occult Overload. Simply blocking or roll dodging does nothing when you're deleted in 1 shot. The combination is entirely op, and allows players to gain access to ridiculous damage without much skill.

So this year I opted to try PvP rather than just hide and do quests for tickets. And I can say the overwhelming amount of my deaths came from Convergence, Vicious Death, Occult Overload and Plague. With a free Caluurion gank in between. Those sets are more cancerous than Oakensoul or any mythic. And Mara and Nocturnal will add fuel to the fire.

MISTFORMBZZZ · August 2022

KiloCrown wrote: »

maybe

no you wont, we both know this

Caribou77 · August 2022

There are a whole lotta players that are satisfied by essentially one-shotting opponents rather than dueling, whether it be exploiting Dark Con with a zerg or a NB gank build that only hits from stealth with ultimate loaded then spams surprise attack and if you survive the initial burst cloaks and runs away.

It’s human nature, I guess. I personally enjoy a more prolonged duel where I can test my skills and reactions against a good opponent.

I don’t enjoy using proc sets like Dark Con or Plaguebreak or Calurions that passively win fights for you. But alot of prople do.

I tend to play BGs because I’m on console and lag is really bad in Cyrodiil, but if/when I do I play no-proc.

Just a play style preference, I know, but I sometimes think crappy set exploiters (DC, PB, Calurions) and gankers are suffering little man in big pickup truck syndrome. ☺️

Nomadic_Atmoran · August 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

DC is definitely an annoying, and brainless set to exist in PvP. However, like others have said, the mechanic is simple enough to get out of. The problem is that it becomes uncounterable when used with Plaguebreak/VD and Occult Overload. Simply blocking or roll dodging does nothing when you're deleted in 1 shot. The combination is entirely op, and allows players to gain access to ridiculous damage without much skill.

So this year I opted to try PvP rather than just hide and do quests for tickets. And I can say the overwhelming amount of my deaths came from Convergence, Vicious Death, Occult Overload and Plague. With a free Caluurion gank in between. Those sets are more cancerous than Oakensoul or any mythic. And Mara and Nocturnal will add fuel to the fire.

There was a time when me and my guildies would go in seeking confrontation with other players. Now we look for ways to gain AP/Tier Up without actual PvP unless we are zerg surfing. Unless you're apart of a dedicated PvP group its too much of a pain to deal with. I hate it because I used to really enjoy PvP. Now its just about who has the least amount of connectivity issues/gets off their proc set first.

Danse_Mayhem · August 2022

Agree 100%.

Sure you can block it if there’s one proc, but groups are learning to stagger the procs every second, so you either stand there like a lemming holding block inside a negate for 5 seconds getting ulti dumped, or you get pulled in immediately and die either way.

Rushing agony definitely is a thing and it’s something else that groups are learning to stack. Both need looking at. An AOE pull by any means is terrible for pvp.

You can have the best block timing in the world, the most resistance, the biggest health pool and the most skill… But what you can’t control - Other players and guards. You can be the best player on eso but when you get a group of guards or other players pulled to your location, who instantly explode for 12800 oblivion damage each, along with a 60k plaguebreak hit… Where’s the counter play?

“Don’t stand near others” ok so we aren’t supposed to defend keeps, even solo, with friendly guards? We aren’t supposed to play in groups of 3-4? To clarify, it takes 2 occult overload procs to deal 25600 oblivion damage, which is mostly a GG for anyone hit by it, and that’s just with 2 others nearby. This isn’t an issue of wanting to Zerg and not be punished by it.

Does occult overload need to be lowered and stop working on guards? Yes. Does the scaling of plaguebreak need to be lower and also not scale from NPCs? Maybe.
But the real issue is dark convergence pulling all of that into a pinhead and creating a stalemate meta where combat is completely based around immediately ending the fight in one DC pull when just one person is low enough health to proc all of that other stuff.

Keep the damage, remove the pull. A growing AOE that nukes a larger crowd but deals relatively low damage to small groups / solo players would still achieve this underdog stuff, but wouldn’t allow ball groups to aimlessly nuke crowds by using your own allies as explosions against you.

Do something. No other set ever in the history of ESO has ever been so talked about by the community and it’s clearly game breaking, we all brought this up at PTS and it still went live.

StarOfElyon · August 2022

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

Hey there,

We do apologize as the incorrect Thread about Dark Convergence was closed down. The other that were active were previously older. As this one is the newer one, with recent postings only, it will be reopened.

We apologize for the confusion. Thank you for your understanding

The fact that there are so many threads and ZOS hadn't deleted this set yet is wild to me. And yes, I try to be in all of those threads.

geonsocal · August 2022

Lynxyn wrote: »

KiloCrown wrote: »

Dark Convergence ruined this game's potential imo. I played this game religiously through thick and thin times since 2015, primarily PvP. Despite the many setbacks others have had with changes made over the years, I never minded really minded myself. I definitely had frustrations at times but I ultimately still made the best of them and had fun. I'm nowhere near being one of the great PvPers but I can handle losing and still have fun, so this isn't just a salty post. So many fun memories in PvP - wins and epic losses! But everything changed for me when dark convergence came out.

Whole fun fights just get sucked into it and decimated with a few ultimates. What used to be a fun PvP experience with drawn-out, adrenalin-pumping combat is now, for me at least, completely contingent on whether that set is around or not. When dark convergence is around, there is no fun battle flow anymore - you're just pulled out of combat so frequently and frankly, pulled out of the in-game world experience that takes you away from your real-world troubles.

I've taken several breaks from eso since dark convergence's arrival hoping to come back to it being nerfed or removed. I came for the PvP so I can only stay distracted by PvE content for so long. Now that I'm realizing this set is here to stay, I'm honestly thinking this just isn't the game for me anymore. I'm sure it's dramatic - all over one set. It just ruins the whole experience for me and I'm really that disappointed in the kind of PvP play it has led to - what it was before and what it is now.

Can literally just block the pull and walk out.
[snip]

[edited to remove quote]

StarOfElyon · August 2022

Sluggy wrote: »

Dem_kitkats1 wrote: »

DC is definitely an annoying, and brainless set to exist in PvP. However, like others have said, the mechanic is simple enough to get out of. The problem is that it becomes uncouterable when used with Plgauebreak/VD and Occult Overload. Simply blocking or roll dodging does nothing when you're deleted in 1 shot. The combination is entirely op, and allows players to gain access to ridiculous damage without much skill.

The power doesn't come from the damage. It never did. The power comes from the ability to make an on-demand chokepoint as well as the ability to take control out of the opponent's hands - even if just for a second. Used by good players in the appropriate situation it will never fail and can be used to great effect on any quantity of targets, including one.

Exactly. This set isn't as strong by itself as it was before but it is still the most disruptive set in the entire game. It ruins your positioning and your momentum, and puts you on the defensive. It's a distinct advantage in PVP to have this set if you're part of a group.

I've said before that the power that this set has should only be found on ultimates.

geonsocal · August 2022

howdy @Danse_Mayhem ...

read through your post, well thought and expressed...

i see you've been playing awhile...not sure what your playstyle is, and how exactly you're running in to this set...it challenges me the most during siege (pulled and then hit with cold-fire or getting stuck under flaming oil) and where the space is confined inside keeps and outposts and there's no where to back up to...

i would be pretty mad at myself if it killed me in a tower...

one of my first loves here in eso was the javelin...over time i've enjoyed other skills and sets which displace an enemy, or enemies...against experienced players knockdowns and knockbacks just annoy them (which is my intent), they generally respond well quickly though from a combat perspective, usually a little more reckless though, less experienced players it'll rattle them to be displaced...

there's different ways to pull folks in: silver leash, dk chains, beckoning armor, that gross spider web thing...taunting folks is a good way to bring them in...dc just makes everyone start running, rolling, streaking, blocking...most of the time it doesn't get me, i'll start rezzing allies, but i'm laughing while doing it...

i've kind of just learned to roll with the patches now...it's a challenge needing to adapt all the time, particularly because i'm constantly rotating through 17 relatively different toons in cyrodiil every campaign...

regarding specifically though: dark convergence, vicious death, plaguebreak, occult overload - i play solo, normally "off-hours" and i like defending, i'm in a lot of situations where i'm outnumbered...siege and these "tools" definitely help with that scenario...

unless someone is using enemy npcs specifically to proc vicious death, plaguebreak or occult overload - this is a complete "small-scale" non-issue...the event is on right now, but - i play a lot of small scale pvp...

anyone whom specializes in small-scale fighting ain't putting on vd, dc or plaguebreak...they're pretty useless in that type of combat situation...

oh, and if someone does use the npcs against me:

seriously, it's not that easy to do...i only really play off their chains and negates...

thinking of it - hopefully occult overload procs from siege kills...i'm a big fan of pouring flaming oil on folks...set them on fire and then blow them up

Danse_Mayhem · August 2022

I get your point about the self challenge (after playing since release day we need that right) but that personal preference doesn’t mean the same thing as objective balance.
It’s personal opinion that someone pulling NPCs and low levels into you is creative, but it’s also terrible balancing and game breaking at the same time.

I’ve never thought we should be punished for playing with friends, and sure VD does a good job of countering those balled up groups at times, but having the on-demand pull that eliminates any element of your own positioning is crazy.

I play from AUS so sure I also play solo after work when the servers are quiet, and this is less of an issue. But the solution to this set should not be to play solo, when the server is dead, or so far away from NPCs that castle combat is a thing of the past.

Also agree with the one guy who replied to ZOS - If you guys can identify that there are multiple threads about this all the time, then please take notice and do something about it

Parasaurolophus · August 2022

I can confirm that everything is fine with this set. At least for bg`s. Learn to block in time and get out of the red circles. Although yes, I can imagine how popular dc can be in cyro... maybe even too much.

geonsocal · August 2022

time to kill, and how long should a pvp fight really last...goodness knows, i've spent at least a good 40 minutes or more fighting over chalman, like about a million times over...

one of the more frequently discussed subjects buried deep in the pvp section here...

it takes too long to kill folks, particularly when there is a bunch of them together, shielding, healing, all other sorts of buffing and de-buffing stuff going on, constantly purging (oops, not anymore

)...find the weak link in the group and start with them...

i get it though, you're right, just different perspectives and preferences while enjoying the game...

no doubt we can both agree performance at times is less than desirable

that and we should get a whole lot more coin from rewards for the worthy bags and end of campaign rewards - three thousand three hundred coins for my continued loyalty, for a whole month...with new gear and countless changes to stuff - pvp is an expensive hobby...

between convergence and oakensoul went through a bunch of coin and transmute geodes switching up builds...

thankfully i'll just need mats for order's wrath at least...

jtm1018 · August 2022

Its called tactics.

They throw darcon when most enemies are low hp, boom, and they are all dead, imagine using it with the veneral disease set, oh the nightmare.

I dont do this, am a nb.

geonsocal · August 2022

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

I’ve never thought we should be punished for playing with friends

two people on a mic, familiar with each other's build, can normally take down a group of five or six randoms, pretty regularly...

as you increase coordinated group numbers their survivability and lethality increases - by a lot...they won't always win, not that good or some of the randoms on hand know how to fight with allies against groups...but, just timing ultimates can have such a devasting effect on the battle...

however, this is from someone who hasn't spoke on a mic in eso in, i don't know, let's say a long time...my colors are blue, but, my bar is green...

i'm pretty sure there are others out there whom don't usually group and whom generally stay off the mic...and, whom would like for the fights to go just a little faster...i die too...

Vakiri · August 2022

Rush of agony atleast needs you to be in the thick of it, it's a great tool for dedicated bombers, and requires more risk. It also doesnt slow ur ass to a crawl.