High end players hitting 130k+ already. What was the point?
Chef42
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I just have to ask. With high end players already hitting 130k+ on the current PTS (8/8), what is the point of all these changes? It was stated to lower the ceiling and raise the floor. The ceiling is right back where it was, and I have seen nothing to indicate the floor did anything except drop. And this happened at the expense of a massive amount of animosity between factions of the player base.
So what has actually been accomplished?
Edited by Chef42 on August 8, 2022 9:34PM So what has actually been accomplished?
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don’t forget, they are hitting that, and the boss health is lowered in general. Therefore, dps is more valid than before as it’s possible to skip even more phases now than before, when you have that extreme dps. Lol.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 8, 2022 9:38PMWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions16 -
gypsysonb14_ESO✭✭✭There were three extra DMG buffs added to the dummy on PTS, though. You cannot simply compare the numbers to live parses.26
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Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You assume that they know what they are doing... I wonder if it's because they try to balance things on paper, and isolated dummy parses, and not by actually playing content in groups, seeing how powerful group buffs are and so on... but so far most of their proposed reasons for the changes fell through given testing on the pts--oh, and don't forget that damage now gets boosted by medium weaving...
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ThirdEye_PULSE✭✭✭✭They lowered the ceiling by 2 inches and dug a basement into the floor miles deep. Its gonna take a month or so for this to hit the entire game community, as many dont come here. But that time will come. Question is how many people will they retain between this patch cycle and the next one that reverts most of this patch cycle after it effects them financially?
Its easy to get a new person. Its hard to retain a new person. Its even harder to retain a loyal player after youve made them loyal then disregarded them as important. Theyve effectively given the middle finger to all their most loyal players with this patch. Once youve lost a loyal player... doubtful youll ever get them back.Edited by ThirdEye_PULSE on August 8, 2022 9:45PM26 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Go check a 3m or 6m dummy. Dps has been gutted for anyone lacking full group support.
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gypsysonb14_ESO✭✭✭The gap is probably increased, however, as the top end players will adapt to medium weaving (which from conversations I've had, most of us don't want to do... But plenty will) since it will be much stronger than light weaving after LA buffs all got removed.3
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@ZOS_GinaBruno Did the combat team acomplish what they set out to do this patch? Please explain how Medium weaving meta and dps higher then it is on life helps raise the floor and lower the ceiling?. All ZOS has acomplished this patch is loose tons of veteran players and lost trust of the rest, what a joke.21
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gypsysonb14_ESO✭✭✭arkadiusz1992eb17_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno Did the combat team acomplish what they set out to do this patch? Please explain how Medium weaving meta and dps higher then it is on life helps raise the floor and lower the ceiling?. All ZOS has acomplished this patch is loose tons of veteran players and lost trust of the rest, what a joke.
DPS is not higher than on live. Though, I agree that medium weaving becoming the best option is not good for the skill gap.2 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good players adapt and thrive, while the “floor” they seek to raise just dropped into a sinkhole many will never recover from.
You can’t make low end players improve if they don’t want to. And if they wanted to, they already would be top players. All these changes do is make the game harder for them.
Let the gap widening begin.14 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭130k on pts is probably closer to 100k on live.
They added EC to it too this week.
Damage is down by 20-25%
Enemy HP is down by 10%
Healing is nerfed and made a lot more complicated.
Incoming dmg from enemies remains the same.
Heal over time and damage over time timers are all over the place.
In the name of "accessibility," update 35 has made the game exponentially harder for everyone. Casuals, midtiers and endgame a like will find it harder and more annoying and time consuming to relearn combat yet again. The top end probaby already quit long ago. And the handful left will still make records while everyone else slowly realizes what happened.
Im sorry to say but the game developers really dont seem to have any idea about what they are doing. The past five weeks are a living proof of it. Even a child can see through it at this point."Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.25 -
Kusto✭✭✭✭✭U35 brings more complicated rotations and med weaving which is more difficult than light attacking. Skill gap didn't close, it widened even more.21 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand why lowering the ceiling and raising the floor matters. I'm a mid range player (at best) and it doesn't hurt me a bit if good players can do two or three times my dps.
That said, if it is still felt important (for some reason) to lower the ceiling and raise the floor, crafting a horribly complex dumpster fire of changes is doomed to failure. Keep things simple! Want to lower the ceiling? Use a damage cap. Want to raise the floor? Buff basic skills, light and heavy attacks. Simple and done.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo21 -
Galiferno✭✭✭✭✭The buffs ZOS has added throughout this patch seem to be convincing people that DPS is fine or even going up. I know the guy whose parse was posted above personally, and he can parse around 115k on a stamplar on live. And his 129k PTS parse is probably closer to a 100k parse on live. So, his parse number might be higher on PTS but with all the buffs to the dummy, his parse is still down about 15k.5 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭I disagree the ceiling is higher than before because medium attack weaving is pretty hard. Like really hard.
I am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!4 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭francesinhalover wrote: »I disagree the ceiling is higher than before because medium attack weaving is pretty hard. Like really hard.
Remember when they said they were doing this for "accessibility"? 😅"Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.7 -
Mace1994✭✭✭
This pts has been nothing but a joke. First they nerf heavy and light attacks then they buff heavy attacks and empower making medium attacks meta WHICH makes the whole "accessibility" moot. How is medium attacking easier then light attacking? There is a thousand things I could rant about U35 but I'm tired at this point and it's not like the devs care about what we have to say.Edited by Mace1994 on August 8, 2022 11:57PMVet since beta@Mace_WolfheartMace Wolfheart - hybrid templar dps [main]Mafalda Wolfheart - warden tank19 -
Dawnblade✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I don't understand why lowering the ceiling and raising the floor matters. I'm a mid range player (at best) and it doesn't hurt me a bit if good players can do two or three times my dps.
That said, if it is still felt important (for some reason) to lower the ceiling and raise the floor, crafting a horribly complex dumpster fire of changes is doomed to failure. Keep things simple! Want to lower the ceiling? Use a damage cap. Want to raise the floor? Buff basic skills, light and heavy attacks. Simple and done.
It is an admirable goal - and I do believe it would be good for the game in general to have a flatter performance curve than current.
It is difficult if not impossible to create content that is appealing and challenging to as wide an audience as necessary to support the game financially when the difference between mid and top is as large as it is.
Their changes though don't seem to be moving in the right direction, don't seem to be narrowing the gap or improving accessibility, though do seem to be alienating numerous players of all skill levels.
As such, I can still support their stated goal while considering what I've tested in the patch not to be meeting those goals while also being terrible for the game as a whole.
Edited by Dawnblade on August 9, 2022 12:02AM7 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭The parsing mini game on both live and PTS are not an accurate representation of what really happens in the game once you get into particular combat situations. IDK why we keep trying to balance the combat system based on what is essentially a mini game.
All normal and most vet PvE content dies easily whether your group hits 70K on the dummy or 140K. You will literally see almost zero difference except for some of the newer trials where mechanics are more HP based rather than timer based or a mix of both where you need actual group awareness.
The only place where you need big DPS is on hard mode trials where outside of the sweatiest players DPS numbers are generally not anywhere near those dummy numbers because the gear sets and skills are different. You need to set up to survive and not just straight burn or you need to wear different gear sets because fights are mobile or to get that extra flex spot to survive.
This hard modes hit harder, have more HP and force you to a different setup to already not hit as hard. The game was already balanced. Older content should have been buffed rather than DPS and healing nerfed.
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Tar000un✭✭The dummy was changed again, now it has additional 15% crit damage taken.
Certainly to represent EC and brittle.
But as OP, I m dont understand how we can see 130k parse when they want to reduce the gap. Moreover considering a medium weaving that may turn your char to suicide when you have a kind of bug where you char keep facing the target and make your move erratic despite that you're going opposite direction.Edited by Tar000un on August 9, 2022 1:38AM0 -
cro25519✭✭✭The buffs ZOS has added throughout this patch seem to be convincing people that DPS is fine or even going up. I know the guy whose parse was posted above personally, and he can parse around 115k on a stamplar on live. And his 129k PTS parse is probably closer to a 100k parse on live. So, his parse number might be higher on PTS but with all the buffs to the dummy, his parse is still down about 15k.
I asked the guy and he says he doesn't know you smh. If you know him, tell me what his name means.
/s but also not really.0 -
shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭francesinhalover wrote: »I disagree the ceiling is higher than before because medium attack weaving is pretty hard. Like really hard.
I don't even understand what medium attack weaving is? But I'll bet even though I've played for 8 years, I won't be able to do it.
Too fine a line in when you hit the button.2 -
cro25519✭✭✭shadyjane62 wrote: »francesinhalover wrote: »I disagree the ceiling is higher than before because medium attack weaving is pretty hard. Like really hard.
I don't even understand what medium attack weaving is? But I'll bet even though I've played for 8 years, I won't be able to do it.
Too fine a line in when you hit the button.
You hold the button for a bit before leaving it, without fully charging heavy attack in a way you can maximize dps while minimizing time, idealy casting a medium weave attack and skill in a gcd or more if it gains you more damage on a certain skill.
A stark contrast from just tapping button not caring about the timing and casting skill. It's an order of magnitude of complexity, especially when you have to hold the button longer or shorter depending on the skill.Edited by cro25519 on August 9, 2022 3:39AM4 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭shadyjane62 wrote: »francesinhalover wrote: »I disagree the ceiling is higher than before because medium attack weaving is pretty hard. Like really hard.
I don't even understand what medium attack weaving is? But I'll bet even though I've played for 8 years, I won't be able to do it.
Too fine a line in when you hit the button.
You hold the button for a bit before leaving it, without fully charging heavy attack in a way you can maximize dps while minimizing time, idealy casting a medium weave attack and skill in a gcd or more if it gains you more damage on a certain skill.
A stark contrast from just tapping button not caring about the timing and casting skill. It's an order of magnitude of complexity, especially when you have to hold the button longer or shorter depending on the skill.
#accessibility"Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.6 -
Lady_Galadhiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭shadyjane62 wrote: »francesinhalover wrote: »I disagree the ceiling is higher than before because medium attack weaving is pretty hard. Like really hard.
I don't even understand what medium attack weaving is? But I'll bet even though I've played for 8 years, I won't be able to do it.
Too fine a line in when you hit the button.
You hold the button for a bit before leaving it, without fully charging heavy attack in a way you can maximize dps while minimizing time, idealy casting a medium weave attack and skill in a gcd or more if it gains you more damage on a certain skill.
A stark contrast from just tapping button not caring about the timing and casting skill. It's an order of magnitude of complexity, especially when you have to hold the button longer or shorter depending on the skill.
Sounds unneccesary complicated.Total ESO playtime: 8325 hours
ESO plus status: Cancelled
ESO currently uninstalled.6 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭shadyjane62 wrote: »francesinhalover wrote: »I disagree the ceiling is higher than before because medium attack weaving is pretty hard. Like really hard.
I don't even understand what medium attack weaving is? But I'll bet even though I've played for 8 years, I won't be able to do it.
Too fine a line in when you hit the button.
You hold the button for a bit before leaving it, without fully charging heavy attack in a way you can maximize dps while minimizing time, idealy casting a medium weave attack and skill in a gcd or more if it gains you more damage on a certain skill.
A stark contrast from just tapping button not caring about the timing and casting skill. It's an order of magnitude of complexity, especially when you have to hold the button longer or shorter depending on the skill.
Easier to do with a controller. Giving console its only potential advantage. Raise the floor, lower the ceiling, I see what you did there. /sarcasm0
