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I think the healing system broken)
selig_fay
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Yesterday I heard another opinion that group healing should be a nerf because all dps in the group can use it, it stacks and makes the group stronger. It also makes gankers stronger. And hearing this, I think people don't understand the fundamental problem. Why do dps have good group healing at all?
In terms of trinity, each class (health, tank, dps) has to sacrifice something in order to be better at something else. The problem with eso is that when you invest in damage, you also invest in heavy healing. And this is objectively much stronger than if you were investing in outgoing healing.
I just think that the current stat that promotes healing only increase is much (at the point of uselessness) weaker than weapon and spell damage. This is because 10% damage is a lot when it comes to 50k dps, but healers never work with 50k hps as it's pointless. Much easier to put an extra burst heal on the panel.
This is my thought on this matter. I think most of the available AoE healing should be based on a healer-unique stat rather than spell/weapon damage. Of course, I'm not talking about vampirism or self-healing stuff, because I think self-healing is okay if it's expensive. I mean, when you spend 6k stamina to heal, it will significantly reduce your potential damage or defense, because stamina is not infinite. Lifesteal, on the other hand, is damage based and is needed by warriors to survive mid-combat, but it doesn't work behind a wall when you can't deal damage. Of course it would be great if vampirism was just for melee, but i dont care. On the other hand, I find it essential that healers have easy access to powerful group healing. This will increase their importance in both pvp and pve.
Message for gankers. Guys, you are not the center of the world) Some people want good group pvp because this is an mmorpg where role should matter.
In terms of trinity, each class (health, tank, dps) has to sacrifice something in order to be better at something else. The problem with eso is that when you invest in damage, you also invest in heavy healing. And this is objectively much stronger than if you were investing in outgoing healing.
I just think that the current stat that promotes healing only increase is much (at the point of uselessness) weaker than weapon and spell damage. This is because 10% damage is a lot when it comes to 50k dps, but healers never work with 50k hps as it's pointless. Much easier to put an extra burst heal on the panel.
This is my thought on this matter. I think most of the available AoE healing should be based on a healer-unique stat rather than spell/weapon damage. Of course, I'm not talking about vampirism or self-healing stuff, because I think self-healing is okay if it's expensive. I mean, when you spend 6k stamina to heal, it will significantly reduce your potential damage or defense, because stamina is not infinite. Lifesteal, on the other hand, is damage based and is needed by warriors to survive mid-combat, but it doesn't work behind a wall when you can't deal damage. Of course it would be great if vampirism was just for melee, but i dont care. On the other hand, I find it essential that healers have easy access to powerful group healing. This will increase their importance in both pvp and pve.
Message for gankers. Guys, you are not the center of the world) Some people want good group pvp because this is an mmorpg where role should matter.
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AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My healer is a healer precisely because of the synergy between her healing and her respectable damage. If she has to choose between healing and dps, she'll retire from healing and join the dps hordes.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
selig_fay✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »My healer is a healer precisely because of the synergy between her healing and her respectable damage. If she has to choose between healing and dps, she'll retire from healing and join the dps hordes.
It all depends on the numbers. You still have max stamina/magic that affect abilities. But as a semi dps player you will have a cap. This is what I'm talking about. If you want more healing, decrease your dps. You can also have a glass canon dps healer. But you should never have all three things in good condition. You can, on average, but it should be much less than people who specialize in things. I think that dps with easy access to healing just crowd out healers as a class and create a huge imbalance in pvp.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Of course, I'm not talking about vampirism or self-healing stuff, because I think self-healing is okay if it's expensive. I mean, when you spend 6k stamina to heal, it will significantly reduce your potential damage or defense, because stamina is not infinite.
Zenimax should not create different systems for different heals. Further, every heal costs resource so the justifications of a stamina heal being ok because stamina is not infinite and it reduces potential damage and healing is the same justification that can be applied to magicka heals.
It does not jive.0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »My healer is a healer precisely because of the synergy between her healing and her respectable damage. If she has to choose between healing and dps, she'll retire from healing and join the dps hordes.
That'd be your personal preference. If they separated healing/DPS stats, I would go the other way because I think the healing aspect of the game would be far more important due to the lack of self-heal ability for DPS characters.
Overall, I don't think it makes sense for healers and DPS to have their respective roles scale off the same stats. I honestly think Heals should scale exclusively with max stats, whereas damage scales exclusively with max damage. If this happened, it would emphasize the healer's greater need for sustain, and because DPS would build only for max weapon/spell damage, their self-heals would necessarily be much weaker, making healers actually more needed and desired in more phases of the game.4 -
selig_fay✭✭✭Well I had an idea to increase the cost of healing abilities. And then link their strength to a resource recovery or cost reduction statistic. Might even introduce a special cost reduction glyph for support abilities and have the outgoing healing stat reduce the cost as well. But it looks like a crutch to me.0
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rauyran✭✭✭✭Damage should be scaled mostly by weapon/spell damage and only a little from max resources. Healing should be the opposite.1 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭Here's a thought, might be kind of crazy, but when you queue for a random dungeon or a BG you need to queue as a tank, dps, or healer. What if that would be a game wide setting instead of a group setting as it is now, and could only be changed at a temple like a respec. Then if a person specs as a tank your character got a +50% bonus to resists, a -25% to damage done, and a -25% to healing done. Queueing as DPS would give a +25% bonus to DPS, a -50% to healing done, and a +25% reduction to combat skills. Going in as a healer would give a +25% bonus to healing done, a -50% to DPS, and a 25% bonus to stat recoveries. It would be mandatory to spec as one of the three archetypes.
Maybe game-wide would be going too far, and instead just for dungeons, trials, and pvp. Just a thought on how to make each archetype valued for what it is, and not able to do everything all the time.1 -
dmnqwk✭✭✭✭✭Here's a thought, might be kind of crazy, but when you queue for a random dungeon or a BG you need to queue as a tank, dps, or healer. What if that would be a game wide setting instead of a group setting as it is now, and could only be changed at a temple like a respec. Then if a person specs as a tank your character got a +50% bonus to resists, a -25% to damage done, and a -25% to healing done. Queueing as DPS would give a +25% bonus to DPS, a -50% to healing done, and a +25% reduction to combat skills. Going in as a healer would give a +25% bonus to healing done, a -50% to DPS, and a 25% bonus to stat recoveries. It would be mandatory to spec as one of the three archetypes.
Maybe game-wide would be going too far, and instead just for dungeons, trials, and pvp. Just a thought on how to make each archetype valued for what it is, and not able to do everything all the time.
Oof that's an awful idea!
Firstly, tanks and healers can go into normal dungeons and perform their role while bringing 20-30k dps with them. If their damage was reduced 25%, you'd discourage a lot of people who queue as real tanks in randoms (or at least push them into veteran only).
Secondly, dps who end up getting fake tanks (since you've just said a dps who queues as a tank loses 25% damage BUT retains their full healing done) so all you'd do is ensure more fake tanks in every run.
You'd also have healers who'd feel it necessary to spec into full dps with a single heal for randoms, because healing in normal dungeons is too easy. So you'd simply run a full dps spec that can do 60k, and pull 30k, while throwing out 1 heal.
Your suggestion would basically risk destroying the group finder entirely.0 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe, that's the point? Discourage FAKE roles? Encourage real roles?
Honestly, the buff/debuff idea is the best idea to solve the group finder and fake role issues, I've heard in a long time. Like very long time.
There might be the need to drop the roles system for normal Dungeons, entirely. I mean the base game Normals are very easy. And the DLC normals only a little bit less easy. That is part of the problem.
But emphasising specialization for Veteran Dungeons at the same time? That is a good idea. 👍
Concerning the OP's different stats idea for different roles, I say it is good one in theory. But ESO just hasn't these stats, that are exclusively used by healers.
Elder Scrolls lore just doesn't provide.
Maybe, if you emphasize the healing done and received buffs via sets. And at the same time reduce healing overall by 50% or more?
Add in a unique raid buff for healers, equivalent to minor/major Slayer and Aegis.
But then you'd have to redesign every encounter in vet Dungeons and Trials. And at that point you are basically redesigning the entire game... 😳If anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...
Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.0 -
selig_fay✭✭✭You can go in any dungeon with any group, while you not query. Fake exist, becouse we have many dps players, litle healer player (i mean, healer, who actually heal, not semi-dps), and very few tanks.
Well, let's clarify one point to get back to the topic. What gives the best benefit in healing, 129 w/s damage or 4% healing done?0
