Fix Oakensoul (and almost every argument) by adding Battle Spirt

PvXGamer · July 2022

Just like the title says. Fix every current gear/skill dispute between PvP and PvE regarding nerfs and buffs by adding a "While Battle Spirit is active" effect to every piece of gear, all the skills, and all the passives in the game. Permanently separate PvE and PvP from each other by providing stats on items and skills for both versions of gameplay. Put the argument to rest. Adjustments and nerfs could be done to placate one side without irritating the hell out of the other. This would mean less headache for the developers, both now and later, for a little forethought and consideration for the playerbase.

EDIT: removed the sorta-curse word

merpins · July 2022

Oakensoul is very underpowered in the PTS right now, for the people that need it. It's no longer worth running over other options unless you are disabled and really have no other choice. This is due to the harsh downside.

Reverting the changes and using battle sprit to make it to you get the major versions, the live versions that is, of the ring's buffs while out of pvp, and minor versions (the nerfed version) while in pvp would be best.

Otherwise, add Major Slayer, Minor Slayer, and Minor Aegis if you refuse to balance pve and pvp separately. Major Slayer and Minor Slayer together bring back most of the power that the ring lost. You still miss out on the flat weapon and spell attack from major courage, but these two buffs bring back the rest. It might even be a slight damage buff since Major Force's uptime is derived from crits; so maybe Minor Slayer isn't necessary. But major is.
Minor Aegis just adds back the other 5% resistances we lost from the nerf. All of these buffs don't effect pvp, and don't step on the toes of end game trials sets since this ring's main audience are disabled players that need it, or players that are either learning the game and will eventually move away from the ring for better options, players that don't like bar swapping (and will eventually, most likely, learn the game and move away from the ring), or end-game players that just want a casual build and already have access to trial sets so it doesn't matter.

PvXGamer · July 2022

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Reverting the changes and using battle sprit to make it to you get the major versions, the live versions that is, of the ring's buffs while out of pvp, and minor versions (the nerfed version) while in pvp would be best.

Yes. This is exactly what I am suggesting, by providing a separate set of buffs to the item when Battle Spirit is active but also doing this to every piece of gear in the game. Then a completely different set of buffs without Battle Spirit active. There would no longer be any strife between the PvP and PvE community because of differences of opinion with regard to gear as well as skills/passives if it were extended beyond just adjustments to gear.

joseayalac · July 2022

That would overcomplicates things, there's already mechanics in play that deal with that kind of stuff.

For example, you could add Major or Minor Aegis, Slayer to Oakensoul and get done with that. Those buffs, from design, don't interfere with PVP.

xDeusEJRx · July 2022

The reason I believe zos don't ever do anything like this is because of the complexities of pve players going into PVP and vice versa.
Like for example, pve players won't be able to take pve builds period into PVP because they will either function differently or not at all if they had to rework most of the combat system for both PVE and PVP.

Every PVP event like imperial city event or whitestrake's mayhem would look a lot more brutal for PVE players if their builds were severely gimped because they don't function at all in PVP due to disparity in such a system.

That's why I imagine they sparingly use the battle spirit only stipulation

FlamingBeard · July 2022

joseayalac wrote: »

That would overcomplicates things, there's already mechanics in play that deal with that kind of stuff.

For example, you could add Major or Minor Aegis, Slayer to Oakensoul and get done with that. Those buffs, from design, don't interfere with PVP.

As far as I'm aware, Aegis/Slayer/etc don't work in overland content so the posts original suggestion of using Battle Spirit to differentiate set effects between game modes seems like a more direct approach that doesn't leave overland content as the odd one out.

Casdha · July 2022

FlamingBeard wrote: »

joseayalac wrote: »

That would overcomplicates things, there's already mechanics in play that deal with that kind of stuff.

For example, you could add Major or Minor Aegis, Slayer to Oakensoul and get done with that. Those buffs, from design, don't interfere with PVP.

As far as I'm aware, Aegis/Slayer/etc don't work in overland content so the posts original suggestion of using Battle Spirit to differentiate set effects between game modes seems like a more direct approach that doesn't leave overland content as the odd one out.

I've kind of wondered why they just didn't do something similar to HM Groups and Trials and create something like a Raider's Spirit to apply tweaks only used in that type of PvE.

edit: tweaks= artificially setting the floor and ceiling for everyone when in that type of content

PvXGamer · July 2022

Casdha wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

joseayalac wrote: »

That would overcomplicates things, there's already mechanics in play that deal with that kind of stuff.

For example, you could add Major or Minor Aegis, Slayer to Oakensoul and get done with that. Those buffs, from design, don't interfere with PVP.

As far as I'm aware, Aegis/Slayer/etc don't work in overland content so the posts original suggestion of using Battle Spirit to differentiate set effects between game modes seems like a more direct approach that doesn't leave overland content as the odd one out.

I've kind of wondered why they just didn't do something similar to HM Groups and Trials and create something like a Raider's Spirit to apply tweaks only used in that type of PvE.

edit: tweaks= artificially setting the floor and ceiling for everyone when in that type of content

Saying that separating PvP and PvE through a buff is overcomplicated does not make it true. Aegis/Slayer are already toggled "On" or "Off" between PvE and PvP content, specifically only working in dungeons/trials and toggling off out of, but those 2 particular buffs do not replace the others that are currently present on Oakensoul which works everywhere (overland, PvP, dungeons, trials) currently, nor do those two buffs address the heart of the problem.

Every single person I've spoken with who is a PvE player does not enjoy PvE content getting nerfed because those playing PvP do not like such-and-such. And yes, ZOS could go one step further and add a second "Adventure Spirit" buff for when in dungeons/trials, adding even more precision to tweaking effects on gear and skills. This would be a vast improvement over the game sweeping sledgehammer changes to gear and skills that seem to have been based, for the most part, on complaints from only one side of the playerbase community.

And there is the issue.

This game is made from a community of players. It is not supported solely from one side or the other. This, I believe, is where a lot of the animosity and irritation you 'see' here in the forums stems. You have a developer who seemingly (it does not mean it is true but I am writing this from an optics view) capitulates and makes massive game changes based on the complaints from a small percentage of the total community. Yes, I am referring here to the complaints from the PvP side causing massive changes to the PvE side. What I proposed should nearly eliminate all of that.

I am uncertain why anyone would be against something like this unless they just like to argue and do not care about the reason and/or topic. If Battle Spirit were implemented on everything, it would not hurt PvP if there were PvE changes, and it would not hurt PvE if there were PvP changes.

Take the balance regarding the math and how things are computed for everyone, and tweak effects and procs specifically for each playstyle since PvE and PvP are two completely different animals.

MacCait · July 2022

We've all been saying it for years... just seperate PvP from PvE. You can never ever balance them. In the past the excuse has been 'it's too much work'... but think about the years of work going into attempting to balance PvE and PvP.... and the amount of players being upset by nonsensical changes due to just one side. Seperate and we can all benefit from it.

Stalwart385 · July 2022

If they would have just changed major heroism to minor heroism I think it would have been in a good place.

PvXGamer · July 2022

Stalwart385 wrote: »

If they would have just changed major heroism to minor heroism I think it would have been in a good place.

That would have been a measured response. Instead, the response has been to basically 'gut' the item...twice now. Why? Because the PvP side of the community got 'salty' about first the stats it provided and now about the buffs that it provides. Is Oaknesoul considered an anomaly and shouldn't be used to base this opinion on? Here is another one, Dark Convergence. The set works beautifully in PvE for open world and normal dungeon content with the proc on a 15 second timer, the exact same timer as the taunt a tank will use to open up with. But again, because the PvP side complains about it, the proc timer is getting nerfed to a 25 second cooldown. If there were different procs for both PvP and PvE then changes could be made with zero impact to PvE.