U35 Feedback from the perspective of a pvp magDK

MarieCurie0 · July 2022

To kill an opponent in small-scale pvp, you need pressure and burst:
For templars, you have PoL for massive big boom. For necros and wardens, you have bursts (skele boys and beetles), that are not very huge, but are delayed, which means you can line them up with other sources of damage. For nbs, you have super high burst from spectral bow, which becomes even more deadly when combined with their class ultimate. Sorcs, although they don't have a single source of very high burst, they have a lot of delayed burst, which they can line up to take down an opponent from full to 0 in a matter of seconds.

With the changes to dots and molten whip, it is going to ruin the playstyle of whip. We're not gonna have any pressure from dots and our burst will be mediocre. Unlike most classes our burst is not 1 button, we have to spend 6000 or more mag on uselessly reapplying our dots to build up the whip. So we don't have any option but to slot these dot skills and reapply them even though they last longer and don't even pressure that well anymore. Please consider reverting the damage stack changes to molten whip, or make it less expensive to build up.

Yes, corrosive plus molten whip can be very deadly, but that is only a problem due to oakensoul. Corrosive armor is very expensive, and you can easily block through it or kite. Before oakensoul, builds that tried to invest into higher corrosive uptimes were very weak. But due to this overpowered mythic, you can get around 10s downtimes on corrosive, making dks ridiculously overpowered when using such builds. It is not uncommon now to go to cyro and be constantly zerged down by dks in green. But what about dks that don't want to play using this mythic, using classic dleap? Molten whip is their bread and butter. Our builds will be completely useless now with these changes.

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

MarieCurie0 wrote: »

Unlike most classes our burst is not 1 button, we have to spend 6000 or more mag on uselessly reapplying our dots to build up the whip. So we don't have any option but to slot these dot skills and reapply them even though they last longer and don't even pressure that well anymore. Please consider reverting the damage stack changes to molten whip, or make it less expensive to build up.

Good point, better yet, un-nerf DoTs and LA/HA... PvP is extremely boring when you can't effectively pressure your enemy's HP bar. You end up in a situation where the only way to kill anyone is to 100-0 them before they spam burst heals, but oh look, burst was gutted too by the LA/HA nerfs... not that a PvP where players are only ever at full HP or dead is worth playing.

OBJnoob · July 2022

The problem with magdk was that they pretty much had the best pressure in PvP AND the best burst. So honestly I'm glad that won't be true anymore. If magdk is more effected than everyone else by the sweeping changes maybe that's a good thing because they were the best.

Not that I want magdk to suffer but... Just trying to keep things in perspective a little bit. Flames of oblivion is going to be what you spam to build for whip... And that's very much the way it was anyway. The claw has a healing component to it so it'll still probably be worth using, and it guarantees burning so its basically free to cast whether its great pressure or not.

MarieCurie0 · July 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

The problem with magdk was that they pretty much had the best pressure in PvP AND the best burst. So honestly I'm glad that won't be true anymore. If magdk is more effected than everyone else by the sweeping changes maybe that's a good thing because they were the best.

Not that I want magdk to suffer but... Just trying to keep things in perspective a little bit. Flames of oblivion is going to be what you spam to build for whip... And that's very much the way it was anyway. The claw has a healing component to it so it'll still probably be worth using, and it guarantees burning so its basically free to cast whether its great pressure or not.

Kind of seems like you do want magdks to suffer. Because why should anything be fun and competitive?
MagDK pressure is basically useless against any class with decent HoTs like templars, necros, and even wardens. Eveb magnbs recently have started stacking 3 HoTs with a burst heal. The only way to kill these classes dependably is to line up whip with a balorgh meteor. The other way is to bait them and get yourself really low and have a dleap in waiting, which more often than not, results in your own death. Also, both these ways are incredibly taxing on sustain as your ulti is now your main source of sustain.

Best burst? Never been hit by a 10k PoL or 14k assassin's scourge? Best pressure? Never been jabbed to death with nothing but jabs? Have you fought sorcs these patch? And any decent stamcro? I will concede that wardens and stamblades have definite less pressure than magdks.

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup. Whip could be done out of combat, and even in; 3 globals. Not saying this is the way to go, but you had to see something coming.

Problem is; they're doing that at the same time as watering down DOTs so I do agree that it's detrimental to identity of the class.

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup

And all of this setup is erased by one single burst heal cast, to say nothing of defensive builds that seem to be able to spam their burst heals indefinitely, often incidentally healing allies in the process.

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup

And all of this setup is erased by one single burst heal cast, to say nothing of defensive builds that seem to be able to spam their burst heals indefinitely, often incidentally healing allies in the process.

I mean; that seems to be a universal thing...

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I mean; that seems to be a universal thing...

It is, and it's extremely bad for the game, but uniquely stupid for DK given its supposedly intended playstyle. Maybe someday they'll remember when they said they were going to reinforce DK's class identity as the DoT pressure class...

MarieCurie0 · July 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup. Whip could be done out of combat, and even in; 3 globals. Not saying this is the way to go, but you had to see something coming.

Problem is; they're doing that at the same time as watering down DOTs so I do agree that it's detrimental to identity of the class.

If global cooldowns are your standard for how big a burst should be, then the ease of building up a molten whip should be as easy as building up those bursts aka skele and beetles. Both require just 1 button, and have mag/stam cost of 1 skill. Molt whip requires 6000 mag and takes up your entire bar space to build. So if you're gonna drastically reduce the damage, make it easier to build up.

MBBOWOLVERINE · July 2022

You do realise mag dk is a top 2 class and is massively over performing still, a slight nerf is needed, like currently a below average dk can kill a top tier nb just by dots and hitting 15k whips etc. They don’t need huge nerfs but they are too strong

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

MarieCurie0 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup. Whip could be done out of combat, and even in; 3 globals. Not saying this is the way to go, but you had to see something coming.

Problem is; they're doing that at the same time as watering down DOTs so I do agree that it's detrimental to identity of the class.

If global cooldowns are your standard for how big a burst should be, then the ease of building up a molten whip should be as easy as building up those bursts aka skele and beetles. Both require just 1 button, and have mag/stam cost of 1 skill. Molt whip requires 6000 mag and takes up your entire bar space to build. So if you're gonna drastically reduce the damage, make it easier to build up.

Have you used the others? I'd argue whip is the easiest to build and land. Blast ones dies what it wants. Shalks timing if you are moving as well as your target is arduous at best. I mean you need 3 abilities activated. Imagine if you had to hit on 4, or had to apply other damage to build the damage.

MarieCurie0 · July 2022

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

MarieCurie0 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup. Whip could be done out of combat, and even in; 3 globals. Not saying this is the way to go, but you had to see something coming.

Problem is; they're doing that at the same time as watering down DOTs so I do agree that it's detrimental to identity of the class.

If global cooldowns are your standard for how big a burst should be, then the ease of building up a molten whip should be as easy as building up those bursts aka skele and beetles. Both require just 1 button, and have mag/stam cost of 1 skill. Molt whip requires 6000 mag and takes up your entire bar space to build. So if you're gonna drastically reduce the damage, make it easier to build up.

Have you used the others? I'd argue whip is the easiest to build and land. Blast ones dies what it wants. Shalks timing if you are moving as well as your target is arduous at best. I mean you need 3 abilities activated. Imagine if you had to hit on 4, or had to apply other damage to build the damage.

Blast dies when it wants? You mean after a good 5 seconds after it spawns? Also, both are aoe, and apply strong effects like major defile, major, and minor breach. Both are 1vx burst abilities, unlike whip.

danthemann5 · July 2022

MarieCurie0 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

MarieCurie0 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup. Whip could be done out of combat, and even in; 3 globals. Not saying this is the way to go, but you had to see something coming.

Problem is; they're doing that at the same time as watering down DOTs so I do agree that it's detrimental to identity of the class.

If global cooldowns are your standard for how big a burst should be, then the ease of building up a molten whip should be as easy as building up those bursts aka skele and beetles. Both require just 1 button, and have mag/stam cost of 1 skill. Molt whip requires 6000 mag and takes up your entire bar space to build. So if you're gonna drastically reduce the damage, make it easier to build up.

Have you used the others? I'd argue whip is the easiest to build and land. Blast ones dies what it wants. Shalks timing if you are moving as well as your target is arduous at best. I mean you need 3 abilities activated. Imagine if you had to hit on 4, or had to apply other damage to build the damage.

Blast dies when it wants? You mean after a good 5 seconds after it spawns? Also, both are aoe, and apply strong effects like major defile, major, and minor breach. Both are 1vx burst abilities, unlike whip.

Let me translate for you:

Blastbones does what it wants.

I have a lot of experience translating from Techyesnomaybekindasortasometimeshic to English.

TechMaybeHic · July 2022

MarieCurie0 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

MarieCurie0 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Most those burst you are listing requires effectively 5 to 7 globals to setup. Whip could be done out of combat, and even in; 3 globals. Not saying this is the way to go, but you had to see something coming.

Problem is; they're doing that at the same time as watering down DOTs so I do agree that it's detrimental to identity of the class.

If global cooldowns are your standard for how big a burst should be, then the ease of building up a molten whip should be as easy as building up those bursts aka skele and beetles. Both require just 1 button, and have mag/stam cost of 1 skill. Molt whip requires 6000 mag and takes up your entire bar space to build. So if you're gonna drastically reduce the damage, make it easier to build up.

Have you used the others? I'd argue whip is the easiest to build and land. Blast ones dies what it wants. Shalks timing if you are moving as well as your target is arduous at best. I mean you need 3 abilities activated. Imagine if you had to hit on 4, or had to apply other damage to build the damage.

Blast dies when it wants? You mean after a good 5 seconds after it spawns? Also, both are aoe, and apply strong effects like major defile, major, and minor breach. Both are 1vx burst abilities, unlike whip.

Yes after 5 seconds. Sometimes just standing there. Sometimes killed by enemy. Shalks is good for blasting off in a crowd but again; if you are turning, it's hard to know for sure which way it thinks you are facing when it does go off. I seriously suggest trying it.

That's where my opinion is coming from after playing all these classes. Like I said; I'm not a fan of them doing this and also hitting DK dots both. But I like DK as it kind of had a flow naturally into your burst combo, stack 3, maybe CC, leap(corrosive these days) if up, then whip. Repeat

MarieCurie0 · July 2022

MBBOWOLVERINE wrote: »

You do realise mag dk is a top 2 class and is massively over performing still, a slight nerf is needed, like currently a below average dk can kill a top tier nb just by dots and hitting 15k whips etc. They don’t need huge nerfs but they are too strong

If a top tier nightblade is dying to a below average dk (unless they're a 1 bar perma corro build), they're not a top tier nb.I saw a stamblade farm arguably the best magdk on xbox na yesterday, simply by using spec bow at the most appropriate time.

Nightblades (and to an extent sorcs) are the only classes dks can farm rn. Every class has a hard counter, templars and cros to dks, dks to nbs, nbs to sorcs, sorcs to plars etc etc. And they are massively overperforming not because of the class but because of how well oakensoul synergizes with the class.

And these are not small debuffs, they are destroying the class: A class that gets all its pressure from dots that are getting gutted, and their burst molten whip which is also being gutted.