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I have question about DOT/AOE/Single Damage ability or CP

bdyid
bdyid
theres many damage modifier damage in eso such as(CMIIW),
AOE(Area of effect)
DOT (Damage over time)
Single Target Damage

so my question is,

1.Is the ability like mystic orb or elemental wall or eruption categorize as DOT and AOE (so it benefit from DOT and AOE CP buff) or just as one of DOT/AOE ?
2. Is the damage from Heavy Attack Lightning staff(not the final tick) categorize as both Single Target Damage and DOT or just as one of Single Target/DOT?
3. Can you make example for the skill or ability that included as AOE /DOT/Single Target Damage or both or all three in 1 skill ?


PS: sry for bad english
  • Vermintide
    Vermintide
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    The age old mystery of ESO and agony of CP slotting.

    Most stuff you'd think are AOEs, are actually DOTs. Stuff like Wall of Elements, nightblade's Path, and I believe the Orb count under this. I tested this myself when CP reallocation was still free. As a rule, things which say "X damage and X damage every X second" in their description are DOTs, even if they affect and area.

    The skills the game does consider and AOE are stuff that delivers instant one-off damage, in an area of effect. Stuff like jabs, impulse, siphon, etc. Anything that's a "spammable" but multi target, is AOE. And direct damage, that's basically just spammables. As far as I know the game does not appear to consider any skills to be both AOE and DOT, for example. It only considers them to be a single type.

    TL;DR most classes can just go Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge, and safely ignore Biting Aura.

    (Obviously, I haven't tested this with every skill in the game, just the usual suspects, so there could well be a long list of exceptions.)
  • Starlock
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    Could the developers please, please, please make it more transparent what abilities are counted as what for CP? This has been an issue since the game's launch, and it's still about as clear as mud what impacts what.

    Like, is the heal off "Burning Embers" considered single target since it's in one big burst or does the game consider it heal over time since "Burning Embers" is mostly a damage over time ability? With CP forcing more niches than ever before, it's more important than ever before for all of this to be transparent to the player instead of clear as mud that was mixed together with the black slurry from clockwork city.
  • Everest_Lionheart
    Everest_Lionheart
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    It certainly would be nice to have a little clarity. It’s definitely a mystery wrapped in an enigma currently. Some builds like my MagDK I do better when I run biting aura and thamutarge together than just thamutarge by itself and by a significant margin. Since damage is really about slotting the right CP to get the job done it’s about time we learned what each skill actually does.
  • bdyid
    bdyid
    Vermintide wrote: »
    The age old mystery of ESO and agony of CP slotting.

    Most stuff you'd think are AOEs, are actually DOTs. Stuff like Wall of Elements, nightblade's Path, and I believe the Orb count under this. I tested this myself when CP reallocation was still free. As a rule, things which say "X damage and X damage every X second" in their description are DOTs, even if they affect and area.

    The skills the game does consider and AOE are stuff that delivers instant one-off damage, in an area of effect. Stuff like jabs, impulse, siphon, etc. Anything that's a "spammable" but multi target, is AOE. And direct damage, that's basically just spammables. As far as I know the game does not appear to consider any skills to be both AOE and DOT, for example. It only considers them to be a single type.

    TL;DR most classes can just go Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge, and safely ignore Biting Aura.

    (Obviously, I haven't tested this with every skill in the game, just the usual suspects, so there could well be a long list of exceptions.)

    so basically ALL damage that has orange color means only DOT ?
  • MerguezMan
    MerguezMan
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    bdyid wrote: »
    so basically ALL damage that has orange color means only DOT ?

    Basically, yes.
    On screen : white is direct damage, yellow is critical damage (which can only be direct), orange is damage over time.

    Let's say you use Cleave/Carve from 2H, followed by light attack:
    - you deal a base 2325 direct AOE physical damage, and 242 DOT damage to enemies hit for 10s
    - your light attack will deal 50% of its direct damage to 3 nearby enemies, and may apply a DOT as bleed
    - you might proc enchant or poison on the primary target for additional direct (and maybe DOT) damage

    Assuming you run other skills with DOT component, Thaumaturge seems a good pick.

    The part which buggers me is if the light attacks from 2H (and Shock staff) considered AOE or not ?
  • Sangwyne
    Sangwyne
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    I've tested this on Stam DK and can hopefully provide some answers. Their Noxious Breath has two components to the skill, an AOE direct damage portion and the ensuing 14 second DOT. Biting Aura boosts the direct AOE portion, but not the DOT, and Thaumaturge boosts the DOT but not the direct AOE damage. Venomous Claw similarly hits a single target for direct damage and then has a DOT attached, it's a little hard to test as it ramps up in damage so I compared both Venomous Claw and Searing Strike side by side and found Deadly Aim doesn't apply to the DOT portion, even though it is a single-target DOT. Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, Orbs, and Wall of Elements are not boosted by Biting Aura, the DOT portion of Burning Talons is not either, just the initial hit, and from testing I could find no other AOE DOT skills that seem to be boosted by Biting Aura. I did, however, find that a certain few proc sets were benefiting from both Thaumaturge and Biting Aura despite dealing only DOT damage, this is quite likely a bug. Deadly Aim also seems to work the same way, boosting single-target direct damage but not single-target DOT damage. I also tested Unassailable and Duelist's Rebuff on AOE DOTS and single-target bleeds and came to the same conclusion; as a result, Biting Aura and Unassailable may not be worth slotting.

    TLDR: The intent seems to be that Biting Aura/Unassailable only affect AOE direct damage, whereas Deadly Aim/Duelist's Rebuff only affect single-target direct damage. This is true across every skill I checked, but certain proc sets were benefiting from Thaumaturge and Biting Aura at the same time and may be bugged.
    Edited by Sangwyne on March 29, 2021 7:05AM
  • bdyid
    bdyid
    Sangwyne wrote: »
    I've tested this on Stam DK and can hopefully provide some answers. Their Noxious Breath has two components to the skill, an AOE direct damage portion and the ensuing 14 second DOT. Biting Aura boosts the direct AOE portion, but not the DOT, and Thaumaturge boosts the DOT but not the direct AOE damage. Venomous Claw similarly hits a single target for direct damage and then has a DOT attached, it's a little hard to test as it ramps up in damage so I compared both Venomous Claw and Searing Strike side by side and found Deadly Aim doesn't apply to the DOT portion, even though it is a single-target DOT. Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, Orbs, and Wall of Elements are not boosted by Biting Aura, the DOT portion of Burning Talons is not either, just the initial hit, and from testing I could find no other AOE DOT skills that seem to be boosted by Biting Aura. I did, however, find that a certain few proc sets were benefiting from both Thaumaturge and Biting Aura despite dealing only DOT damage, this is quite likely a bug. Deadly Aim also seems to work the same way, boosting single-target direct damage but not single-target DOT damage. I also tested Unassailable and Duelist's Rebuff on AOE DOTS and single-target bleeds and came to the same conclusion; as a result, Biting Aura and Unassailable may not be worth slotting.

    TLDR: The intent seems to be that Biting Aura/Unassailable only affect AOE direct damage, whereas Deadly Aim/Duelist's Rebuff only affect single-target direct damage. This is true across every skill I checked, but certain proc sets were benefiting from Thaumaturge and Biting Aura at the same time and may be bugged.


    how about skill like haunting curse sorc or blastbone necro is it considered as AOE or single direct damage?
  • Vermintide
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    I would have thought blastbones explosion is AOE, thus affected by biting aura. It might be the class most worthwhile slotting Biting Aura for, because blastbones is a huge proportion of your damage if you're god at making sure it's up every 3 seconds.

    It's still a tough decision, mind you, because you already get a passive to increase DOTs so you definitely want Thaumaturge; and on basically every build for any class, your spammable + light attacks are by far the highest proportion of your overall damage. So Deadly Aim is a no brainer in almost every case. Then you only have two slots left to play with.

    Classes like DK or Templar might get a decent boost out of biting aura too, considering their main skills have AOE attached, but overall when you only have four slots to fill, I feel like it probably still looses out to the other options in terms of total benefit. The base resource boost and +10% crit stars are pretty difficult to turn down IMO.

    In general it's just that when you look at how characters are built in this game, direct damage and DOT damage vastly outweighs the amount of AOE damage you're going to be doing, on average.
  • Everest_Lionheart
    Everest_Lionheart
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    Sangwyne wrote: »
    I've tested this on Stam DK and can hopefully provide some answers. Their Noxious Breath has two components to the skill, an AOE direct damage portion and the ensuing 14 second DOT. Biting Aura boosts the direct AOE portion, but not the DOT, and Thaumaturge boosts the DOT but not the direct AOE damage. Venomous Claw similarly hits a single target for direct damage and then has a DOT attached, it's a little hard to test as it ramps up in damage so I compared both Venomous Claw and Searing Strike side by side and found Deadly Aim doesn't apply to the DOT portion, even though it is a single-target DOT. Standard of Might, Volatile Armor, Orbs, and Wall of Elements are not boosted by Biting Aura, the DOT portion of Burning Talons is not either, just the initial hit, and from testing I could find no other AOE DOT skills that seem to be boosted by Biting Aura. I did, however, find that a certain few proc sets were benefiting from both Thaumaturge and Biting Aura despite dealing only DOT damage, this is quite likely a bug. Deadly Aim also seems to work the same way, boosting single-target direct damage but not single-target DOT damage. I also tested Unassailable and Duelist's Rebuff on AOE DOTS and single-target bleeds and came to the same conclusion; as a result, Biting Aura and Unassailable may not be worth slotting.

    TLDR: The intent seems to be that Biting Aura/Unassailable only affect AOE direct damage, whereas Deadly Aim/Duelist's Rebuff only affect single-target direct damage. This is true across every skill I checked, but certain proc sets were benefiting from Thaumaturge and Biting Aura at the same time and may be bugged.

    MagDK I run the Zen’s build so I’m also buffing my group. My rotation consists of wall of elements, scalding rune, eruption, burning embers, engulfing flames and flames of oblivion plus 7x molten whip spam. Many of those skills by what you are saying above have a direct damage component plus a dot component, but some also seem to be AOE as well like eruption, engulfing flames and scalding rune. The tool tips are unclear however so in practice I found that it better for me to run biting aura and thamutarge plus deadly aim and fighting finesse.
  • cynicalbutterfly
    cynicalbutterfly
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    MerguezMan wrote: »
    bdyid wrote: »
    so basically ALL damage that has orange color means only DOT ?
    On screen : white is direct damage, yellow is critical damage (which can only be direct), orange is damage over time.

    I did not even know this. I'm going to have to pay more attention to my skill damages now. I've always been curious what's considered what.
  • katorga
    katorga
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    MerguezMan wrote: »
    bdyid wrote: »
    so basically ALL damage that has orange color means only DOT ?

    Basically, yes.
    On screen : white is direct damage, yellow is critical damage (which can only be direct), orange is damage over time.

    Are you saying dots don't crit?

    Edited by katorga on March 31, 2021 2:59AM
  • Sangwyne
    Sangwyne
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    MerguezMan wrote: »
    bdyid wrote: »
    so basically ALL damage that has orange color means only DOT ?

    Basically, yes.
    On screen : white is direct damage, yellow is critical damage (which can only be direct), orange is damage over time.

    Individual DOT ticks can definitely critically strike. You might be thinking of proc sets, which can't.
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    MerguezMan wrote: »
    bdyid wrote: »
    so basically ALL damage that has orange color means only DOT ?

    Basically, yes.
    On screen : white is direct damage, yellow is critical damage (which can only be direct), orange is damage over time.

    Let's say you use Cleave/Carve from 2H, followed by light attack:
    - you deal a base 2325 direct AOE physical damage, and 242 DOT damage to enemies hit for 10s
    - your light attack will deal 50% of its direct damage to 3 nearby enemies, and may apply a DOT as bleed
    - you might proc enchant or poison on the primary target for additional direct (and maybe DOT) damage

    Assuming you run other skills with DOT component, Thaumaturge seems a good pick.

    The part which buggers me is if the light attacks from 2H (and Shock staff) considered AOE or not ?

    On first read I thought you were saying DoTs can't crit, which is false. That's surely not what you meant, but I'm calling it out for clarity anyway.
  • bdyid
    bdyid
    I have checked myself that skill like mystic orb, elemental wall, eruption or similiar are boosted from thaumaturge and biting aura ( DOT + AOE ). Same like heavy attack lightning staff (not the last tick) also get boosterd from (Single Target Damage + DOT).

    So I can conclude that all orange damage will sure get DOT bonus damage but not all DOT damage get bonus from Biting Aura or Single Target Damage.
  • Larcomar
    Larcomar
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    Some great info in this; I had to resort to slotting them one by one to check. With a 30 second delay on slotting, I got as far as one class.

    As we're going into the nitty gritty here, can I raise another qu? - Do dots and aoe dots cast on the back bar retain back bar stats or do they adjust to inherit front bar stats when you swap?

    I did test this a couple of times ages ago (on my magdk) but found that the situation seemed to change between updates. I've sort of just given up trying to make sense of what zos is up to. ANyone know for this update tho?
  • Seraphayel
    Seraphayel
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    katorga wrote: »
    MerguezMan wrote: »
    bdyid wrote: »
    so basically ALL damage that has orange color means only DOT ?

    Basically, yes.
    On screen : white is direct damage, yellow is critical damage (which can only be direct), orange is damage over time.

    Are you saying dots don't crit?

    I think what he meant is that there’s no special colored indicator for DoT crits. DoTs can definitely crit, but their color is orange as well (but bold or enlarged? I think a crit has a special effect going on with its number, but I don’t remember exactly what it is).
    PS5
    EU
    Aldmeri Dominion
    - Khajiit Arcanist -
  • katorga
    katorga
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    I checked last night, thaumaturge (dot) and biting aura (aoe) affect Boneyard's aoe dot.

    Edited by katorga on March 31, 2021 11:23AM
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    orb is "kinda" aoe, meaning it gets buffed by Biting Aura but not by Shock Staff, dunno how this works, i also asked it in this thread
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/567747/why-such-a-long-time-without-fixes-for-easy-to-prove-bugs

    also, it takes you 5 minutes to test yourself. Go to any target dummy, and cast an ability with and without a specific CP perk, or a specific dot/aoe booster, etc.
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • Sugram22
    Sugram22
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    Vermintide wrote: »
    The age old mystery of ESO and agony of CP slotting.

    Most stuff you'd think are AOEs, are actually DOTs. Stuff like Wall of Elements, nightblade's Path, and I believe the Orb count under this. I tested this myself when CP reallocation was still free. As a rule, things which say "X damage and X damage every X second" in their description are DOTs, even if they affect and area.

    The skills the game does consider and AOE are stuff that delivers instant one-off damage, in an area of effect. Stuff like jabs, impulse, siphon, etc. Anything that's a "spammable" but multi target, is AOE. And direct damage, that's basically just spammables. As far as I know the game does not appear to consider any skills to be both AOE and DOT, for example. It only considers them to be a single type.

    TL;DR most classes can just go Deadly Aim and Thaumaturge, and safely ignore Biting Aura.

    (Obviously, I haven't tested this with every skill in the game, just the usual suspects, so there could well be a long list of exceptions.)


    Ice staff
    i wonder is deadly aim useful for warden like this, first skill is spamable
    http://www.eso-skillfactory.com/en/share/51992/

    considering this my main attacks should be AOE burst and Dot no singe target if i understand and describe my setup correctly sins arctic blast is AOE burst (but mostly i spam unstable wall of ice), that hard to figure out what skills are best for this skill build/setup

    so maybe i should be using wrathful strike instead of deadly aim or arcane supremacy


    force of nature doesn't sound that good if it gives 900 penetration for each status effect sins ice has just one status effect, sins i do a lot solo that's why i see it useful in group many ppl with many status effects



    BDW does insightful mean its sort of educational that if u push the button it means u learned something?
    Edited by Sugram22 on July 19, 2022 4:58PM
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