Oh Boy.

merpins · July 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYtHS5bS6ec

R.I.P. mid-game players, 2014-2022.
R.I.P. new players, 2014-2022

Arthtur · July 2022

He cleared guys. Its not Dark and Gloom. Stop crying so much... /s

Anyway, im back to polishing my pitchfork.

Oh, and this was in comments:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBK2f1cp8FoAxBsJim83M7imL1yl4JiHnl1BDwZbqLQ/edit

colossalvoids · July 2022

No matter such videos people would still come with "yeah but maybe x trial is fine so it's not that bad". Not sure why some have trust issues with people actually understanding changes from the paper even before testing, it's pretty common and you don't need to be a scorepusher to do so, just a basic game knowledge.

renne · July 2022

Arthtur wrote: »

He cleared guys. Its not Dark and Gloom. Stop crying so much... /s

Anyway, im back to polishing my pitchfork.

Oh, and this was in comments:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBK2f1cp8FoAxBsJim83M7imL1yl4JiHnl1BDwZbqLQ/edit

This from the doc absolutely nails the mood of it for those of us on console (and I'm not even a trifecta player, I fall into the second lot):

The players the most hurt are those on console. A relatively average fight time for Xalvakka is around 7-8 minutes for teams with XS on console. This now won’t be achievable for these players without massive reprog. Godslayer will again be a very difficult speed run to achieve, PB might be possible for a handful of teams, and swash will be impossible. Period. Beyond this, all the console prog teams that barely have the damage to clear whatever regular Vet or Hard Mode that they’re progressing will now fail consistently.

Elsonso · July 2022

Linked Commenter wrote:

So what is the solution to all of this? For all of the reasons mentioned, these dot timer changes and heals ticking once every 2 seconds must be completely reverted. If endgame is to continue, a new direction and approach must be taken entirely.

Sadly, I do not see this happening.

As with most things on PTS... "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

As with most things on PTS... "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Yea sadly the "solution" is to wait for u36 to clean up the mess 3mo later.

Elsonso · July 2022

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

As with most things on PTS... "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Yea sadly the "solution" is to wait for u36 to clean up the mess 3mo later.

Yup. Maybe Update 37 in 6 months. ZOS will spend months analyzing things before making a decision, and then it will take them months to change it.

Right now, my expected message is: "Thinking of trying ESO? Wait until Spring 2023 for ZOS to correct some blunders in combat that they rolled out in Fall 2022. If you try it before then, and are still playing when they do this, you will get caught up in the frustrating transition."

Pending final results from PTS and distribution on Live, of course.

redlink1979 · July 2022

Arthtur wrote: »

He cleared guys. Its not Dark and Gloom. (...)

Yeah, it's fine for... the 1% of the players of the game...

weights44 · July 2022

I’m a console player and I can tell you there is a MASSIVE difference between achieving title and clears between pc and console. I have great long and gig speed internet. So our issues are server issues. Last night on a first boss vDSRHM first boss attempt I had issues staying alive in our raid group. All related to lag. Even doing damage was rough. Having to cast graveyard 5-6 times every cast just to get it to go off. Having issues bar swapping. Trying to interior boss during phases took 3-4 bashes to actually connect with server lag. Potions not going off for 10-15 seconds. Taking damage from tornadoes that aren’t on screen until after you die. Rebuffs not properly registering on bars. So many issues that console players already face when trying to complete HM content or even vet content at times. Imagine the joys of trying to deal with all this when heals start ticking every two seconds vs how they are on live?! This VCRHM clear Nefas did…he even says they wiped for over an hour until they were able to get a comp group to run it. And even then they had some issues. And these are guys who are in the top 1-3% in the game right. Now imagine how impossible that content is going to be for the lower player base in the game with all the nerfs.

shadyjane62 · July 2022

Arthtur wrote: »

He cleared guys. Its not Dark and Gloom. Stop crying so much... /s

Anyway, im back to polishing my pitchfork.

Oh, and this was in comments:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBK2f1cp8FoAxBsJim83M7imL1yl4JiHnl1BDwZbqLQ/edit

You seem to have missed the quote under the video. The part where he says R.I.P. Twice.

Dragonnord · July 2022

Arthtur wrote: »

He cleared guys. Its not Dark and Gloom. Stop crying so much... /s

Anyway, im back to polishing my pitchfork.

Oh, and this was in comments:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hBK2f1cp8FoAxBsJim83M7imL1yl4JiHnl1BDwZbqLQ/edit

Regardless the clear, you clearly didn't pay attention nor listed to Nefas' words in the video.

By the way, have you seen Nefas signature below the video? I past it here for you:

R.I.P. mid-game players, 2014-2022.
R.I.P. new players, 2014-2022

Arthtur · July 2022

Guys are u serious? Or are u just trolling?
I added /s to make sure that ppl will know that i used sarcasm but... I think i had too high hopes....
Even the second line when i say about pitchfork. Why do u think i added it? Because im happy of this update?
I even added link of a document that is against this patch.
How in the world did u manage that...
Am i the wierd one? For using sarcasm? I thought its a common knowledge....

Tevalicious · July 2022

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

As with most things on PTS... "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

Yea sadly the "solution" is to wait for u36 to clean up the mess 3mo later.

For once we can agree on something, and you know that means its bad. Jokes aside tho, its so messed up that they expect us to trust them more than the people that have been playing this game for years and years. And its even more messed up that they won't actually listen to those players that know the game better than they do.

VaranisArano · July 2022

Thanks for including the doc link. That was a solid read.

Everest_Lionheart · July 2022

weights44 wrote: »

I’m a console player and I can tell you there is a MASSIVE difference between achieving title and clears between pc and console. I have great long and gig speed internet. So our issues are server issues. Last night on a first boss vDSRHM first boss attempt I had issues staying alive in our raid group. All related to lag. Even doing damage was rough. Having to cast graveyard 5-6 times every cast just to get it to go off. Having issues bar swapping. Trying to interior boss during phases took 3-4 bashes to actually connect with server lag. Potions not going off for 10-15 seconds. Taking damage from tornadoes that aren’t on screen until after you die. Rebuffs not properly registering on bars. So many issues that console players already face when trying to complete HM content or even vet content at times. Imagine the joys of trying to deal with all this when heals start ticking every two seconds vs how they are on live?! This VCRHM clear Nefas did…he even says they wiped for over an hour until they were able to get a comp group to run it. And even then they had some issues. And these are guys who are in the top 1-3% in the game right. Now imagine how impossible that content is going to be for the lower player base in the game with all the nerfs.

Right there with you on console. Without the add ons you have to watch and listen for every visual and audial clue you can get. I’m on a GH prog team myself and have my teams focus hard for the mechs plus watching skill bars for debuffs to make sure you don’t kill the group with bar swap or if use decides to spawn on you while you have fire so you can communicate that to the group and not wipe.

I’m portal DPS also so I’m watching Z hands for the portal so I can lay down dots on my way to the portal so they are already ticking while I’m downstairs. When in portal I’m listening for the elevator portal que. My rotation is so consistent I know when to break for it already but sometimes I have to delay because ice spawns on me as I go break for portal. Thankfully I’m good at reading my bars to know I have it so I don’t bring it down with me. Or if I have barswap going down I know to delay my backbar dots in my rotation.

But all of those things I do know about the trial are meaningless when I can synergize ice or synergize elevator or synergize portal, or lose track of the 2 orb dots I have on me when I go downstairs and forget to heal. All the knowledge in the world doesn’t overcome lag. I have good nights and bad nights, so does the rest of my team. When supports have lag issues we cut off early. Nothing you can do really.

This is life raiding on console. Only about to get worse…

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

Tevalicious wrote: »

And its even more messed up that they won't actually listen to those players that know the game better than they do.

I'm getting the same sense as others in this thread that someone up there making design decisions really does not want to allow the players to be "right" about something. Nothing since u35 dropped has inspired trust.

WreckfulAbandon · July 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

Right now, my expected message is: "Thinking of trying ESO? Wait until Spring 2023 for ZOS to correct some blunders in combat that they rolled out in Fall 2022. If you try it before then, and are still playing when they do this, you will get caught up in the frustrating transition."

Dont be so sure about that, ZOS logic dictates that by Spring 2023 it will be high time for the latest and greatest complete reinvention of the combat system of ESO. Not even sarcasm at this point.

alternatelder · July 2022

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Most week 1 patch notes go live. These particular patch notes going live with be especially bad fir the game at large.

shadyjane62 · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Indicates how bad the patch notes are. I've quit, cancelled my sub and will play it out by crafting and doing writs and endeavors. All single player duties.

Haven't been in PVP even though I'm august palatine and closing in on top rank. Not been overland except to do surveys and treasure maps. Just cleaning house for the end.

alternatelder · July 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Most week 1 patch notes go live. These particular patch notes going live with be especially bad fir the game at large.

They already said they'll be looking at feedback and adjusting in week 3 (as usual). Look at the changes from '20, those were reverted. Most people here are reacting too soon, or without even testing. It is silly to disband week one.

Varana · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Most week 1 patch notes go live. These particular patch notes going live with be especially bad fir the game at large.

They already said they'll be looking at feedback and adjusting in week 3 (as usual). Look at the changes from '20, those were reverted. Most people here are reacting too soon, or without even testing. It is silly to disband week one.

Well, in the unlikely case that this patch gets thrown out of the window, they can always just reform. Unless they've discovered that there are other things than ESO.

But the more important problem here is what this patch signals about the combat team in general. Even if they roll it back - the mere fact that stuff like ... this has made it into a PTS (which usually means "ready to go online except for some minor fixes") does not bode well for future patches. A combat team that thought ... this would be a good idea, or that these changes actually would achieve the goals they publicised, will make similar errors in the future. Some people just don't want to go into outrage mode in the faint hope of ZOS maybe coming to their senses, and then doing the same all over again a year later.

Rich Lambert was wrong - players do trust the combat team. They just trust it to eff up colossally on a regular basis.

Hrolthar · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Most week 1 patch notes go live. These particular patch notes going live with be especially bad fir the game at large.

They already said they'll be looking at feedback and adjusting in week 3 (as usual). Look at the changes from '20, those were reverted. Most people here are reacting too soon, or without even testing. It is silly to disband week one.

Without any reactions where is the feedback?

Mr_Stach · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Most week 1 patch notes go live. These particular patch notes going live with be especially bad fir the game at large.

They already said they'll be looking at feedback and adjusting in week 3 (as usual). Look at the changes from '20, those were reverted. Most people here are reacting too soon, or without even testing. It is silly to disband week one.

Ahhh the "You're just having Knee Jerk Reactions" crowd.

But we are testing, we've been testing all week. we've been doing PTS for years. There may be some changes but I doubt they will revert most if any of the really bad changes.

I really don't blame any of these communities for closing down, it's more than the Patch, it's the Direction that Zos is moving Combat in.

But hey let's see what the next few weeks show, I'd love to be wrong.

ApoAlaia · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

IKR?

Imagine a PTS build so hopelessly irredeemable that causes people to abandon weeks or even months of progress on the spot.

That is truly remarkable.

Jaimeh · July 2022

It's not just about the nerfs: combat is awfully boring with the new changes. If combat isn't enjoyable, playing isn't enjoyable, simple as that. It's the fastest way to driving away their players.

Elsonso · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Yeah. I agree. You have to give the horse at least a chance to drink the water before you give up.

starkerealm · July 2022

ApoAlaia wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

IKR?

Imagine a PTS build so hopelessly irredeemable that causes people to abandon weeks or even months of progress on the spot.

That is truly remarkable.

Years. It's not, "weeks, or months of progress," this is people saying, "well, ZOS just wasted years of my life, I'm going to go find something better to do."

Arunei · July 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Most week 1 patch notes go live. These particular patch notes going live with be especially bad fir the game at large.

They already said they'll be looking at feedback and adjusting in week 3 (as usual). Look at the changes from '20, those were reverted. Most people here are reacting too soon, or without even testing. It is silly to disband week one.

I mean...when 95% of the feedback from the PTS has been ignored over the years, do you really believe "we're looking at the feedback"? How many times over the years have we gotten lip service from the devs about how they'll do this or do that? What about all the times they keep saying they want to work on improving communication, only for it to barely improve at all?

Maybe there's a reason people don't believe "we're looking at X to adjust Y" these days.

starkerealm · July 2022

Elsonso wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Yeah. I agree. You have to give the horse at least a chance to drink the water before you give up.

We did.

We all gave them a chance.

And they, "rebalanced," the races so poorly, that they had to hand every account $105 dollars worth of service tokens to smooth things over.

So, we gave them a chance.

And they mauled vampires and werewolves.

And we kept giving them chances as they waffled neurotically on combat balance for every class to the point that we had to relearn our basic rotations every six months.

We gave them a chance.

Then they said, "we're really sorry, we'll stop."

And... you know what? The did. Until last week.

Last week they told us that we could eat [redacted] and die, that "the, 'good old days,' of constant balance changes, having to relearn the game, and being punished for the, 'sins,' of the top performers being too skilled are back, baby!"

We gave them so many chances to right this ship, and now they're going back to their old ways with a vengeance.

Also, ZOS has made it ampley clear over the years, if it goes to PTS it's going to get crammed down our throats in six weeks no matter how much hell we raise. They've decided what we're going to play, and we can go [redact] ourselves.

Except, you know what?

We can leave.

This is how bad these changes are.

We can leave, and that is a far more attractive option than sticking around and suffering through this.

Elsonso · July 2022

starkerealm wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

IKR?

Imagine a PTS build so hopelessly irredeemable that causes people to abandon weeks or even months of progress on the spot.

That is truly remarkable.

Years. It's not, "weeks, or months of progress," this is people saying, "well, ZOS just wasted years of my life, I'm going to go find something better to do."

That was Update 33 for me. I scaled back my ESO investment, both time and money, but I've still been playing. I am watching Update 35 because I think they figured out how to finish getting me out of the game. While I figure I can, I'm not sure that I want to adapt to this after what they did with Update 33.

starkerealm wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

Imagine disbanding a guild because of week one pts notes.

Yeah. I agree. You have to give the horse at least a chance to drink the water before you give up.

We did.

We all gave them a chance.

My point is that I don't make any final decisions until after they finish up with PTS. I always give them a chance, even if it is just sitting around for a few weeks waiting on the inevitable. You know... It ain't over until the fat lady sings... Don’t count your chickens before they hatch...

Even if ZOS changing their mind on something this big will happen when pigs fly.