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RIP Jabs (Please don't change jabs 7/29)

merpins
merpins
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alagxzv52u1z.jpg
Already miss it.
RIP Jabs, 2014-2022



I've seen a few people ask, but what about the Templar change to Puncturing Strikes and its morphs?

From what I've seen over nearly 9 years playing this game, the original Puncturing Strikes and its morphs is an extremely favored skill in the game. Players love how it looks and feels to use, it's not like Dive on Warden where it's the only spammable the class has; players like the skill. It could be nerfed, and players would still use the skill despite nerfs because it is such a fun skill to use. Rather than changing the animation, the skill animation could be sped up to .8 seconds, and the damage could be reduced to compensate that. I don't think changing the animation of a player-favorite skill is something that should be done. It's something that should be done on skills where players absolutely hate the skill animation and how it feels to use;
players love Puncturing Strikes, how it looks, and how it feels to use. Nerfing the damage a bit won't change that.

An example of a skill players very much dislike is Warden's Dive skill and its morphs. It's slow and doesn't feel good to use, and after its nerf, it's pretty lack-luster now. THIS should be a skill worth looking at animation changes, not skills players adore.

A good example of a skill that was worth changing is Flurry and its morphs. I have not met many people that like flurry's original animation or how it felt to use. The new animation is a bit lacking, but the intent of changing the old one to something that feels better to use is good. And it does feel good to use now! Though it's a bit slow for the theme of a flurry of blows, and the animation is definitely either the light or heavy attack animation for dual wield, so the skill itself does deserve its own unique animation that follows the theme, or at worst a re-name. But otherwise, I like the intent here. It shows that the devs were listening to the players, a majority of whom did not like this skill and how it felt to use. It's not perfect. But it's better than it was.

Further, if you are going to revamp old skill animations, these animations should be better than the old animations. Time should be taken, unique 3D models and VFX should be made and used, and they should be overall visual upgrades in comparison to the old animation. From what I see on the new animation, it's stiff, the 3D model for the spear is a reused asset from the Nighthollow Staff, and the VFX boils down to just shimmering texture and a glowing light source.

I'm an animator, that's my job. I mainly animate for television and movies, but have done some work on games. The old animation was better, objectively. Exaggeration, anticipation, follow through, arcs, slow in and slow out... It used the principles of animation in a much better way than the new animation. See, the principles exist because without them, animation looks bad. A cartoon doesn't look like reality if you rotoscope exactly, it looks more alive if you exaggerate movements, squash and stretch beyond what a normal human can, etc.

Watch the new animation closely. The first two attacks are exactly the same with no variation in timing. There's no slow in or slow out, anticipation, squash or stretch, or exaggeration. It's just a straight forward animation, frame by frame. It feels stiff, like a robot is moving. The last jab is also slow. It pulls back at the same speed that it stabs, which does not look like a stab.

Here's how I'd fix the animation; for one, there would be variation in the first two strikes, which wouldn't be perfect stabs but have little arcs that the tip of the spear moves in to make it look alive and like an actual warrior is wielding the spear. The arms wouldn't move in perfect repetition. There would be a slight pause at the end of the pull back animation for the first two strikes, and the stab itself would launch forward faster. The body would also move back with the pull back, and arch forward when attacking. Not as much as the final attack, but the body would move a bit unlike the current animation. The second stab would not pull back as far as the first. They're two quick jabs, and pulling back that far both makes the timing of the animation slower, but also makes it look weird. The final attack would pull back similar to how it does, but the launch forward would be faster, and the spear would reach further. It would go in a straight line this time to contrast the arcs from the first two hits, as the arms themselves would be moving in arcs. The character would let go of the spear with their left hand towards the end of the animation to allow them to lunge forward even more than before, which would also give it a better explosive feeling.

That's how I'd fix it. Right now, it needs a complete rework, from the model used for the spear, to the VFX, to the animation.

ZoS, player skills are things we use every day. Spammables are skills we see over and over again, sometimes hundreds of times in a single fight. Please don't change the skills we love for the worst. I'm sure someone worked hard to make the new animation for Puncturing Strikes, but it's also obvious that corners were cut in order to do it quickly. Please don't cut corners when making animation for skills players use. I beg you.
Edited by ZOS_Suserial on August 3, 2022 10:09PM
  • UnassumingNoob
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    Did all the Templar players quit? I think the new animation looks cool but the damage got roasted… why is there not more outcry from the Templar base?
  • Faulgor
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    Did all the Templar players quit? I think the new animation looks cool but the damage got roasted… why is there not more outcry from the Templar base?

    Depression.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • fizl101
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    i don't like the new animation or the changes to the damage, not sure why anyone would run biting jabs if this patch goes ahead
    Soupy twist
  • merpins
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    fizl101 wrote: »
    i don't like the new animation or the changes to the damage, not sure why anyone would run biting jabs if this patch goes ahead

    Ikr. The new animation is worse, it feels clunky to use compared to the old skill, and does less damage than Rapid Strikes.
  • JustAGoodPlayer
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    It is RIP to all last parts of balance ))
    And any logick

    You make 2 strikes with axes - they do 4 hits.
    It is as some marketing from some shave ? )))

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HQ5mXp37gw

    As a templar ... it is not complete bad -1-2 attack is normal but 3-rd hit ... pfff.

    So all the skill look really bad.

    If players like old animation what was the reason to change it ?
    Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 13, 2022 7:41AM
  • merpins
    merpins
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    It is RIP to all last parts of balance ))
    And any logick

    You make 2 strikes with axes - they do 4 hits.
    It is as some marketing from gsome shave ? )))

    It does more damage than jabs now lol. By the way that's Flurry, NOT Jabs.

    They said they gave it a "new animation," when they just smashed two light attack animations together and called it new. To be fair, it feels better to use than the old version. But they could have made it so much better by actually taking the time to make a new animation for it.
    Edited by merpins on July 13, 2022 7:43AM
  • JustAGoodPlayer
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    I as example as DK - make " self produced ... mud " on first cast and throw it on second !

    Just even throwing rocks with no first cast was much better !

    We live with such skills for 3+ updates already.

    It looks and plays terrible !!!

    Our wings was rework - even animation was better before !

    If such tendence will continue we will have not only balance in game bad, but animations of it too.

    Bad balance ... bad animation for it ... some logick.
    Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 13, 2022 7:46AM
  • TragedyOA
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    :D
  • JustAGoodPlayer
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    Spear attacks do not look like this.

    If change speat on 18+ object, than yes may be !

    But spear attacks do not look like it !!!
  • merpins
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    TragedyOA wrote: »

    I agree with Deltia. It looks like a noodle and hits like one, too.
  • JustAGoodPlayer
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    TragedyOA wrote: »

    I agree with Deltia. It looks like a noodle and hits like one, too.

    Than it will be renamed in not spear strikes but on "noodle hits" lol )))
  • fizzylu
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    This isn't jabs, indeed.... but this animation is so bad haha why does the character even look like they lost the will to fight xD just slackly swinging the axes like they've just given up all hope. I'm so weak haha
  • mmtaniac
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    Old jabs was unique they look like jabs now they look like spear change name to biting spear.
  • redlink1979
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    As bad as it may look, it still can't beat DK's Stonefist ugliness. lol
    "Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"
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  • JustAGoodPlayer
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    mmtaniac wrote: »
    Old jabs was unique they look like jabs now they look like spear change name to biting spear.

    Spear attacks do not even look close to this !

    One of my favorite spear attacks:
    Tassel and spear:
    For now i did not see better spear class (by confortable to play and look):

    https://youtu.be/gHKW1FISWco
    That how spear looks like.

    Not this 2 strikes, than look in right, think about life and 3rd strike.
    Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 13, 2022 8:39AM
  • Mrtoobyy
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    I personally LOVE the new animations for those two abilites. I wish they will change more of the animations. When the game first came out it had more slow, "heavier" animations wich alot of people would call clunky.

    For me they seem more realistic and give the feel that a weapon/armor is actually heavy. I have alot of friends that tried to played this game and quit due to the animations.

    The new flurry fits more with axes, swords and maces since you are slashing and not just thrusting.
    Regarding the new jabs animation I love the new "spear" look cause it's more like a lance wich makes it more "paladin like" to me.
    The only thing is the very first move feels off compared to the second and third since the character is almost pushing it down from above. I would change that just a bit.
  • JustAGoodPlayer
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    Mrtoobyy wrote: »
    I personally LOVE the new animations for those two abilites. I wish they will change more of the animations. When the game first came out it had more slow, "heavier" animations wich alot of people would call clunky.

    For me they seem more realistic and give the feel that a weapon/armor is actually heavy. I have alot of friends that tried to played this game and quit due to the animations.

    The new flurry fits more with axes, swords and maces since you are slashing and not just thrusting.
    Regarding the new jabs animation I love the new "spear" look cause it's more like a lance wich makes it more "paladin like" to me.
    The only thing is the very first move feels off compared to the second and third since the character is almost pushing it down from above. I would change that just a bit.

    I - as DK - "make self produced mud", and than throw it last 3+ updates.

    Do you more like this realistick animations ? )))

    I was OK with as it was before - when i take class based on how it looks/feels and etc.

    Not this ! )))
  • JustAGoodPlayer
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    And if it is possible to make new animations that you can costomize in menu like costumes for character but for skills - ok !

    But it is not a reason to change old content !

    Than if if some animation is good may be i even buy and change it.

    But it is not good to force old players on animations like throwing "self produced mud".

    Even skill is bad -1st cast is melee 3 other ranged.

    Skill is bad as ranged and melee !
    Edited by JustAGoodPlayer on July 13, 2022 8:52AM
  • danno8
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    It is RIP to all last parts of balance ))
    And any logick

    You make 2 strikes with axes - they do 4 hits.
    It is as some marketing from some shave ? )))

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HQ5mXp37gw

    As a templar ... it is not complete bad -1-2 attack is normal but 3-rd hit ... pfff.

    So all the skill look really bad.

    If players like old animation what was the reason to change it ?

    With Flurry the backhand hits first, then forehand, repeat with second weapon. It is 4 strikes.
  • Sandman929
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    There is no jabs, only Dark Flare. We are the artillery class lobbing mortars from the wall.
  • Destyran
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    Did all the Templar players quit? I think the new animation looks cool but the damage got roasted… why is there not more outcry from the Templar base?

    We been nerfed for breath of life since 2015 we are used to it and we all know pts means live. They never revert *** lol
  • jcasini222ub17_ESO
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    Yep already processing how to work in rapid strikes and it’s morphs.

    PvP perspective. It’s crazy to think repentance got turned into the Highlander skills there can only be one, our awesome purge can be a death sentence or trigger a bomb due to a low health player taking that cleanse next to you at the way wrong time, and now are staple identifier jabs/sweeps can easily be replaced by a weapon skills. Maybe they should hire some devs that actively play and enjoy other classes.

    Surprise attack can always crit though as if it needed a guarantee lol.
  • Stx
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    They removed 25% of the damage of jabs by removing one of the hits, then they nerfed the damage again... and gave us this terrible animation.

    If I'm still playing the game when this atrocious patch goes live, I certainly won't be using jabs.
  • Minno
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    There is no jabs, only Dark Flare. We are the artillery class lobbing mortars from the wall.

    Which is funny cause you can fire off a LA right when DF is finishing it's cast.

    I didnt think i would see a day when DF had more DPS than jabs lol.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • merpins
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    Stx wrote: »
    They removed 25% of the damage of jabs by removing one of the hits, then they nerfed the damage again... and gave us this terrible animation.

    If I'm still playing the game when this atrocious patch goes live, I certainly won't be using jabs.

    Same.
  • merpins
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    Minno wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    There is no jabs, only Dark Flare. We are the artillery class lobbing mortars from the wall.

    Which is funny cause you can fire off a LA right when DF is finishing it's cast.

    I didnt think i would see a day when DF had more DPS than jabs lol.

    Even Rapid Strikes does more damage than jabs now. SMH.
  • renne
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    Did all the Templar players quit? I think the new animation looks cool but the damage got roasted… why is there not more outcry from the Templar base?

    There's only so much you can take before you just give up fighting.
  • TPishek
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    renne wrote: »
    Did all the Templar players quit? I think the new animation looks cool but the damage got roasted… why is there not more outcry from the Templar base?

    There's only so much you can take before you just give up fighting.

    ZOS finally achieved learned helplessness.
  • renne
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    Minno wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    There is no jabs, only Dark Flare. We are the artillery class lobbing mortars from the wall.

    Which is funny cause you can fire off a LA right when DF is finishing it's cast.

    I didnt think i would see a day when DF had more DPS than jabs lol.

    Even Rapid Strikes does more damage than jabs now. SMH.

    After this patch goes live:

    ZOS: We don't understand why templars don't use jabs anymore.
    Also ZOS: Doubles down on the nerfs.
This discussion has been closed.