Well, I just know that a lot of the upper middle players who's issues can't be solved by just swapping gear generally speaking either can't get timing quite right or they find weaving physically painful.

So they tend to use alternative strategies...

Such as heavy attack builds, reliance on dots, or now the Oakensoul ring. All of which are nerfed. I'm not sure the buffs that were implemented would actually make things better for these players? These are the ones generally hitting the walls for vet content, not the guy only spamming light attack with a bow. Those players are mostly not even trying to get into that content and are just playing in a chill way.

Arthtur wrote: »

Ppl were saying this from the start. But they were called "toxic elitists" because ZOS said that it will help weaker players.
Nerfs DONT help weaker players with getting into harder content.
Thing like Oakensoul HELP ppl getting into harder content. They nerfed it tho.

If this goes live everything below top end will feel it a lot.

I didn't call anyone a toxic elitist, but I did want to wait to see the changes before thinking this would be the case. But now that I have seen them, I feel like once again it's the upper middle players who are just missing the thresholds for vet stuff that are being hit the hardest.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Ppl were saying this from the start. But they were called "toxic elitists" because ZOS said that it will help weaker players.
Nerfs DONT help weaker players with getting into harder content.
Thing like Oakensoul HELP ppl getting into harder content. They nerfed it tho.

If this goes live everything below top end will feel it a lot.

I didn't call anyone a toxic elitist, but I did want to wait to see the changes before thinking this would be the case. But now that I have seen them, I feel like once again it's the upper middle players who are just missing the thresholds for vet stuff that are being hit the hardest.

Im not saying u did. There were a lot of ppl who were saying how toxic elitists are destroying this game, how they dont want weaker players to be able to do harder content, ppl even attacked Nefas a person who is trying to help weaker players get into trials calling him toxic.
If u add to what ZOS said in combat preview (endgame players manipulating the game, how they will make game easier for ppl) and the tweet from Rich about trust... uhhhh...
Sorry im just mad. I didnt jump on ZOS just from the preview because of the last part of trust i had to them after AWA but... in the end its worse than ppl were thinking. Trust wasted again.

But yeah, those changes hurt the most:
- Low, mid tier players who started to do vet dungeons/vet dlc dungeons and were trying to get better at it.
- PvP with new crazy bad set (the one removing buffs)
- Prog groups

For ppl doing only overland, They most likely wont see a diffrence.

And i think im gonna take a break. Just looking at the forums hurts me a lot... maybe tomorrow will be better.

Accessibility got definitely decreased not increased. Nothing changed for the 5k bow spammers who stand in red furthest form everyone. But everyone else lost dps. Those 20k casuals who at least tried and wanted to run vet dungeons gonna get more hate and kicking, and those who were sweating to break 60k that their guild asked to run trials, are gonna be left out again. And also different levels of prog groups. In other words Zos shafted everyone but the absolute floor who didn't do any harder content anyways and the top who will always adapt and gets stuff done.

I also want to add as someone who ends up in pain if I try to weave too much, that ability spam is actually much less literal accessibility needs friendly than the current playstyle. They'd better off doing nothing than this

For someone like myself, not doing great, not doing awful, just slowly improving to the point where non-HM vet content is achievable and gets cleared consistently and I could see a path for improvement that might even open up HMs, if this goes live is going to be crushing.

I am... lost for words. I don't even know where to start with how far this update is going to drive me into the ground.

If it goes live I better get very good at housing because the rest is going to be gated out of reach.

However the biggest sin of them all is that, in the process, they have managed to make the combat boring and unengaging. Now that is really an achievement to put one's name to.

I agree with you with regards to playability for those with hand limitations. if you have limited hand movement/repetitive strain injuries or similar, you are getting less adjustments to your hand position during play, spending more time on your spam button increasing that repetitive motion.

Although I main on console, I do have a PC, and have been testing PTS changes. If it holds as is, I will have dropped approximately 25k DPS from patch 33 to the current PTS patch. Around 20% or so damage loss.

People on the 'borders' - going from normal to vet dungeons, normal to vet trials, vet to hard mode etc are really going to feel these changes more than the top and the bottom. The top can perfectly manage their rotation in the most strenuous of circumstances, that isn't going to change. The lower end will use a limited number of skills without any sufficient information on how they work together with enchants, gear etc (in game). Those on the borders are learning, practicing, not necessarily 100% in all situations, and i currently don't feel that extending the dots so that they don't have to concentrate so much on them will necessarily compensate for the drop in DPS in real game situations. I may be proved wrong, but I think they will get applied, forgotten because they last 20 seconds and not necessarily reapplied when the boss moves, target jumps or whatever it is just as they do now

You aren't alone there. As someone who basically solos contents, this patch only will only introduce misery to my gaming experience. Weaving nerf wasn't really needed because low-end players spam light attacks when they run out of resources which happens quite often. So, it is a sledgehammer hit to their face, not just top tier dps. Top tier DPS will cope soon, low tier players might not be able to and get stuck there because they can't get into harder contents to farm the optimal gears to pull higher dps, which are ironically locked behind the contents they probably won't be able to have access to due to having low dps. I'd say introducing sets like Order's Wrath increases accessibility, not this nerf patch.

Nerfing the content wont help. It will just make that content no longer "veteran". So for good players it would become more boring (for example Laser Boss in Frostvault where u just sit in place for minute if u fail to burn it, rly boring fight for good players, at the same time last boss mechs are still a problem for many ppl) while weaker player will STILL be weaker. He wont get better because he was able to do nerfed content.

If ZOS rly wants to help weaker players they should add more options. Oakensoul is/was good example. I have a friend who was able to do Flawless vMA thanks to this ring and was rly happy about it. Now it gets nerfed instead of being tuned down in PvP.
Like there are ppl who dont use DoTs. They only use spammable. Those are the only ppl who dont get nerfed in this patch. So how about aadding a set that: Increase Direct Damage against monsters by 50% (or 100% even) but reduce your damage from DoTs by 75%. Damage reduction doesnt affect healing.
Or maybe for HA lovers:
Increase HA damage against monsters by 100%. Reduce your damage from Direct damage skills by 50% (so rotation would be HA -> DoT -> HA -> DoT and etc.).
Or DoTs lovers:
Increase damage of DoT effects against monsters by 75%. Reduce your Direct damage skills by 50%.

Here u go. It took me 5m. Is this perfect? No. Is this better than ZOS is trying to do? Im pretty sure that it is. Will it help ppl get better damage without buffing end game? Most likely.

In addition they need to add Story Mode with tutorials. So somebody is going into Story mode for Fang Lair and Undaunted NPC are telling and showing mechs of the dungeon whil at the same time u can enjoy story. It wont affect End game, ppl who want to do dungeons just for story are happy, ppl who want to learn mechs without using 3rd party are happy.
But this is work. Something that ZOS doesnt want to do. Im sorry but it looks like it. They just think that nerfing damage all of the time will at some point help ppl get into dungeons which wont happen. What will happen is that Endgame will slowly die and amount of ppl who will help weaker players will go down and at some point there will be only toxicity left.
I mean there is already a lot more toxicity compared to previous year. Just check general subforum. There are still ppl attacking Endgame players and defending ZOS even tho PTS is live and we have all numbers about nerfs.

Sigh...