The Nocturnal's Ploy set should not be allowed to enter the game

React · July 2022

5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.

This set fundamentally breaks the combat system of ESO, and should never have even passed the drawing board to be allowed onto the PTS. Buff management is a core aspect of the game. Providing a set that allows people to completely negate their target's effort in maintaining their buffs is absurd. Not to mention that this set would fully nullify the target's potions - making things like spellpower/weapon power pots worthless, and severely harming everyone's sustain as their major regeneration buffs from potions are removed.

The concept of this set is flawed at it's base, and should not be allowed to enter the game. Even with a much longer cooldown it would be extremely problematic.

Arthtur · July 2022

Dont worry, u just need to use nerfed Oakensoul!

Yeah, this set is... bad. Just bad.

acastanza_ESO · July 2022

This set is completely unacceptable. We don't need a set that forces players into Oakensoul. What the heck are you doing ZOS?!

xDeusEJRx · July 2022

Zos introduces a set to game that allows people to remove your buffs from you while conveniently selling the solution to that set, being Oakensoul.

Nice job ZOS.

Jokes aside, this set should NOT be allowed in PVP period. This set will make zergs TOO ovepowered. If you're fighting zergs, they will basically purge all of your buffs ALL the time because they have the bodies to do so. Only zerg gameplay will be possible if this becomes a set in the game

Alchimiste1 · July 2022

YES friends we must ban together to rework this set, if you use oakensoul and get hit by this you can never get your buffs back. Remove set !

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

Isn't this patch supposed to simplify non-Oakensoul buff management? Doesn't this set do the complete opposite? No idea if it will be competitive but it will definitely be extra obnoxious to be zerged by. Doesn't need to exist.

Rhavein · July 2022

the set must be removed from the patch or changed into duration effect or something. the set is too OP and there is literally no point of making this set other than pushing for oakensoul.

EF321 · July 2022

*Ele drain intensifies*

WreckfulAbandon · July 2022

Im glad someone else made a thread about this because I just read the changes a minute ago and was about to make one myself. What a terrible concept for a set, that favors groups focusing one person down. Being able to remove buffs every 2 seconds will put the final nail in the coffin for solo PvP and make outnumbered fights even more difficult.

Youve done enough to "level the playing field" ZOS, please dont introduce a new meta where we have dedicated buff removers in zergs chasing down solo players. The new debuff that lowers the targets regeneration is bad enough.

doesurmindglow · July 2022

Yea there haven't been a lot of sets that grossly nerf solo players and buff zergs, but this is one.

And I agree it's not a good idea.

SkadiMZ · July 2022

EF321 wrote: »

*Ele drain intensifies*

This is my fear. That skill is already rough to fight against for some classes (specifically the minute long morph) but now, without a reliable purge, this is going to be a living nightmare. Yikes.

MentalxHammer · July 2022

Yep, absurd. Spamming crushing weapon with an inferno/bow would literally make it impossible for your opponent to keep any buffs up. Ridiculous for dueling.

jaws343 · July 2022

It's definitely an interesting set. But, I can see where it can be wildly abused, with something like Pulsar and Minor Mangle and any number of Major debuffs, especially running something like Kynmarcher. Kynmarcher + Pulsar would be brutal.

Tsunahmie · July 2022

SO THEY CHANGED BUFFS TO ALLOW US TO NOT FOCUS ON BUFFING OURSELVES CONSTANTLY
THEN THEY INTRODUCE A SET THAT FORCES US TO BUFF OURSELVES EVERY 2 SECONDS

yes. I had to put this in caps so everyone can understand how ridiculous ZoS are

sharquez · July 2022

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR A BUFF REMOVING SET OR SPELL FOR EVER. FINALLY.

Dispels are and should be a thing. I'd rather it be a skill, but seeing as how sets are the chosen method going froward on how to affect combat, we will have to settle for this.

jaws343 · July 2022

I feel like a much better approach for the set would be something like:

For every Major debuff you apply to an opponent, reduce the effectiveness of all of their major/minor buffs by 2%, up to 5 times for a maximum of 10% reduced effectiveness. And for every Minor debuff you apply to an opponent, reduce the effectiveness of all of their major/minor buffs by 1%, up to 5 times, for a maximum of 5% reduced effectiveness.

Basically, up to 15% reduction in all major/minor buffs, if you apply 10 debuffs to the target. So, still decently strong, but also very unlikely to reach full stacks, and doesn't fully remove buffs. But also apply it to permanent buffs. So, if you hit all 10 debuffs, a player with Major Protection slotted, would see it reduce from 10% reduction to 8.5% reduction.

Tsunahmie · July 2022

sharquez wrote: »

I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR A BUFF REMOVING SET OR SPELL FOR EVER. FINALLY.

Dispels are and should be a thing. I'd rather it be a skill, but seeing as how sets are the chosen method going froward on how to affect combat, we will have to settle for this.

Coming from Aion I 100% agree that dispels should a thing.
The problem with ESOs combat system is that this FUNDAMENTALY doesn't work.
Whatcha gonna do...rebuff every 2 seconds?
Stay on your back bar just pressing buffs vs someone taking them down every 2 seconds?

Does it affect food buffs?
Does it affect only skill-based buffs?
Without testing it I think it's obvious it should only target skill-based buffs...
Imagine having just 2 people in a group running this.... it's actually busted for too many reasons

In tab target games dispels work fine
But when you can apply a debuff and take away a buff every 2 seconds it negates anything these patch notes in general are trying to do.

Also...does it affect effects such as rapid regen and vigour?

Oooh the tests that have to be made are immense for this one!

Edit: realised major and minor buffs are all class based ones and don't affect heals unless the apply something like toughness or vitality
So yeah...still busted

VixxVexx · July 2022

Brought to you in the same patch they are trying to make buffs more accessible. Can't make this *** up.

AdamLAD · July 2022

This set is specifically designed to target GOOD players who can keep there buffs up lol. Horrendous set. Not just that, if a brand new PvP player, who has worked hard to learn to keep his buffs up somewhat, all of that learning will go to waste. Do NOT punish players who can play the game at its highest level. Its flawed.

Qwazzy · July 2022

Players in pvp are having less control over their character patch after patch.

Vateshran sword and shield and Dark convergence pulls took away movement. Now we have a set randomly taking away buffs. I can't wait to see what's next!

NordSwordnBoard · July 2022

So, a player can debuff you with a no-cost ranged skill, or use puncture up close to debuff you of all you have going pretty quickly. Yikes.

Dragonredux · July 2022

I don't even play PvP and I immediately thought this set was a bad idea when I read it. I saw Ele Drain being mentioned but also Pierce Armor is basically a free Major and Minor removal.

React · July 2022

Tsunahmie wrote: »

SO THEY CHANGED BUFFS TO ALLOW US TO NOT FOCUS ON BUFFING OURSELVES CONSTANTLY
THEN THEY INTRODUCE A SET THAT FORCES US TO BUFF OURSELVES EVERY 2 SECONDS

yes. I had to put this in caps so everyone can understand how ridiculous ZoS are

Yeah, this part really got me.

This set cannot be allowed to go live. Even with a 10+ second cooldown it would be broken for a number of reasons.

divnyi · July 2022

Every 2s lmao what seriosly what. So puncturing an enemy every 2s = stripping their buffs faster then they cast them

tsaescishoeshiner · July 2022

How do I know what buff of mine was removed? There's no way to see this without addons, which even then sounds pretty hectic. By the time I recast my buff, even if I cast the right one, it'll be removed again by certain skills or sets.

This just seems so unbalanced being used by certain classes and against certain classes, depending on how easily they apply these buffs or debuffs.

Sandman929 · July 2022

Fortunately on console, I've got a 1mm x 1mm buff icon that's super easy to keep track of when it's been removed by yet another idiotic set idea from Zenimax

WreckfulAbandon · July 2022

Looks like the "Great Reset" will be making an appearance in ESO as well. We will all have no buffs and be happy.

Wuuffyy · July 2022

This is gross.

Didgerion · July 2022

React wrote: »

5 – When you apply a Major Debuff to an enemy, remove a Major Buff with a duration from the target. When you apply a Minor Debuff to an enemy, remove a Minor Buff with a duration from the target. These effects can both occur once every 2 seconds.

This set fundamentally breaks the combat system of ESO, and should never have even passed the drawing board to be allowed onto the PTS. Buff management is a core aspect of the game. Providing a set that allows people to completely negate their target's effort in maintaining their buffs is absurd. Not to mention that this set would fully nullify the target's potions - making things like spellpower/weapon power pots worthless, and severely harming everyone's sustain as their major regeneration buffs from potions are removed.

The concept of this set is flawed at it's base, and should not be allowed to enter the game. Even with a much longer cooldown it would be extremely problematic.

There is still room in no proc campaign.

Lots of proc sets are out of place if you ask me. This is just one more added to the collection.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 2022

This utterly ruins builds that rely on Blue/Green Pots for their sorcery/brutality. I always run blue pots on necro because for some insane reason they don't have access to it in their class kit. Oh awesome i was hit by an ability? Guess I'll wait 45 seconds for my sorcery buff.

stargleen · July 2022

Remove this set. Broken! Stupid!