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Pickpocket etiquette
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BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
Thanks. So it appears we still don't get much of a benefit from using BoW, other than maybe quicker respawn.1 -
Sheridan✭✭✭✭✭A thief and a murderer is completely different things. Thieves Guild members usually don't kill people on the job. The idea of "etiquette" which requires to murder someone if you pickpocket them is ridiculous. And even in terms of game mechanic, your pickpocketing does NOT affect another players loot (it's a common misbelief), so all this "civic duty" thing is meaningless.Edited by Sheridan on July 5, 2022 4:19AM7 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BretonMage wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
Thanks. So it appears we still don't get much of a benefit from using BoW, other than maybe quicker respawn.
Quicker respawn, a chance for tainted blood style material, and there's a passive that will cloak you and shed guard aggro in the green tree as well.2 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »Been participating in the Justice system since it launched, but I’ve never thought about the murder of a mark as “proper etiquette.”
If you’re new to thieving, please do not feel pressured to assassinate your marks. If you just want to steal one or two items, that is entirely your prerogative.
While I disagree that you should be compelled in this way, ZOS designed it so pockets can only be picked twice before nothing will be gained on pickpocketing attempts.
Seems like a bad decision for an MMO to me, but what do I know?PC
PS4/PS50 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And even in terms of game mechanic, your pickpocketing does NOT affect another players loot (it's a common misbelief), so all this "civic duty" thing is meaningless.
Actually, I think that might be right, I don't think I've ever seen an NPC with empty pockets (unless due to my character). Even after other thieves have been in the area.0 -
davidtk✭✭✭✭✭mabdastardseb17_ESO wrote: »leaving them with empty pockets use the blade of woe. It its your civic duty
Then yours civil duty is to buy for everyone DB dlc for that. Many ppl don't have eso+ and many ppl don't own DB dlc even when is it once / twice on year in sale with tg and orsinium dlc.
So no, it is NOT their duty to reset them by kill them with BoW.
So only etiquette is don't be id**t and At least have some honor as a thief. So if someone pickpocketing some NPC that NPC is not available for you, just find anotherone.Really sorry for my english3 -
kaushad✭✭✭✭It's behaviour like this that makes MMOs look so goofy; more murder hobos than normal people. It's particularly annoying having a conversation with an NPC interrupted by some prick slitting the throat of everybody in the square.Edited by kaushad on July 5, 2022 12:17PM5 -
I would add: if you see someone else pick-pocketing, don't think its your duty to do it also (or kill them with the Blade of Woe) BEFORE they can finish it! Basic politeness goes a long way!
I BOW after the first kill and then i dance on the corpse i am a monster and i have no regrets.]I am always the original pickle tickler nothing will stop my merciless reign0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »Been participating in the Justice system since it launched, but I’ve never thought about the murder of a mark as “proper etiquette.”
If you’re new to thieving, please do not feel pressured to assassinate your marks. If you just want to steal one or two items, that is entirely your prerogative.
While I disagree that you should be compelled in this way, ZOS designed it so pockets can only be picked twice before nothing will be gained on pickpocketing attempts.
Seems like a bad decision for an MMO to me, but what do I know?
That's untrue. Three picks is the standard amount. And an additional pick can very rarely be found. When you BOW someone, you get a drop from their pocket at the stage of pickpocketing you were on (minus passives) and no further stages.
So if you BOW on stage 1 of being able to pickpocket, you get a stage 1 loot, but not stage 2 or stage 3. This is why people tend to BOW at stage 3. Because then they get the stage 3 loot, without having to deal with the reduced chance of a successful pick.
Edited by spartaxoxo on July 5, 2022 8:08PM4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When my character is pickpocketing they aren't thinking that this isn't real and it's a game and I need to do things against my ethics so another player who may or may not even come along can benefit.
Etiquette to me is not rushing past another player to get to the mark first. Or not rushing in to open a chest that we see another player is next to but fighting off a mob that interrupted them. Or not throwing mudballs and other things to try to disrupt another player from opening a safebox.
But it is not having to break immersion and go along with things against our and our characters' ethics for convenience.Edited by SilverBride on July 6, 2022 2:04AMPCNA10 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Etiquette to me is not rushing past another player to get to the mark first. Or not rushing in to open a chest that we see another player is next to but fighting off a mob that interrupted them. Or not throwing mudballs and other things to try to disrupt another player from opening a safebox.
Agree 100%. This is the only stuff I consider etiquette when stealing. I don't try to swoop in and take something someone else is clearly working on. And I don't try interrupt them in anyway. I don't even stand around hoping their lockpick will break in the case of treasure chests. You get it to first, I back off. That's all I personally feel anyone is owed as common courtesy.
Edited by spartaxoxo on July 5, 2022 8:14PM10 -
ArchangelIsraphel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Etiquette to me is not rushing past another player to get to the mark first. Or not rushing in to open a chest that we see another player is next to but fighting off a mob that interrupted them. Or not throwing mudballs and other things to try to disrupt another player from opening a safebox.
Agree 100%. This is the only stuff I consider etiquette when stealing. I don't try to swoop in and take something someone else is clearly working on. And I don't try interrupt them in anyway. I don't even stand around hoping their lockpick will break in the case of treasure chests. You get it to first, I back off. That's all I personally feel anyone is owed as common courtesy.
This right here is all the etiquette I practice when stealing. I try to leave people alone when I know they're working on a mark, and I never try to take anyone else's treasure chests or lockboxes. Unfortunately I find that even when attempting to be courteous of others, there are certain people who insist upon getting in my face anyway, and in that case, I simply go to one of my quieter and less well-known spots.PC l NA
Legends never die
They're written down in eternity
But you'll never see the price it costs
The scars collected all their lives
When everything's lost, they pick up their hearts and avenge defeat
Before it all starts, they suffer through harm just to touch a dream
Oh, pick yourself up, 'cause
Legends never die2 -
As a Khajiit I feel it is my right to pick pockets, and take great care when doing so. I have only had one incident that I hope I don't see again, that when I had arrived at a pocket and was waiting for my 100% that another player entered the building and murdered the npc before I had managed my second grab. as etiquette goes that was not it.1
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Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
That's plain wrong, you do get better loot with this CP from murder too.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
That's plain wrong, you do get better loot with this CP from murder too.
It doesn't state that in the passive description. It only says you get it from pickpocketing. Do you have a source for that claim? I'd love to see it, would make things easier.Edited by spartaxoxo on July 5, 2022 11:31PM0 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
That's plain wrong, you do get better loot with this CP from murder too.
It doesn't state that in the passive description. It says you get it from pickpocketing only. Do you have a source for that claim? I'd love to see it, would make things easier.
I'm a professional mass murderer with well over 500.000 NPC's killed and a combined bounty of over 300 million gold. Dunno if that's good enough evidence for you, for me it is.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
That's plain wrong, you do get better loot with this CP from murder too.
It doesn't state that in the passive description. It says you get it from pickpocketing only. Do you have a source for that claim? I'd love to see it, would make things easier.
I'm a professional mass murderer with well over 500.000 NPC's killed and a combined bounty of over 300 million gold. Dunno if that's good enough evidence for you, for me it is.
I mean I have killed a lot of NPCs too. I have an entire toon dedicated to it. But you can't just tell by that. You have to track your loot with the passive used only while pickpocketing. And the passive used while dead. And you have to do this across a ton of items not just like 100 or some other small number. And then see if the rate of better items has changed. You get nice items regardless with either method, so you cannot just state I get purples when I kill so it's working. This passive increases the rate you find nice stuff.Edited by spartaxoxo on July 5, 2022 11:38PM2 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
That's plain wrong, you do get better loot with this CP from murder too.
It doesn't state that in the passive description. It says you get it from pickpocketing only. Do you have a source for that claim? I'd love to see it, would make things easier.
I'm a professional mass murderer with well over 500.000 NPC's killed and a combined bounty of over 300 million gold. Dunno if that's good enough evidence for you, for me it is.
I mean I have killed a lot of NPCs too. I have an entire toon dedicated to it. But you can't just tell by that. You have to track your loot with the passive used only while pickpocketing. And the passive used while dead. And you have to do this across a ton of items not just like 100 or some other small number. And then see if the rate of better items has changed. You get nice items regardless with either method, so you cannot just state I get purples when I kill so it's working. This passive increases the rate you find nice stuff.
I don't need to compare it to pickpocketing, just killing with and without it and i absolutely get better loot when it's active. My sample size is hundreds of thousands of items in that regard.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Proper etiquette is just to murderize everyone regardless of what other players are trying to do...
Lol
Look at the end of the day people are going to operate within the bounds and constraints allowed by the game developers. Whether it's the 3 and be gone pickpocket, the steal, steal, die, or the mass murderize who cares about bounty method. ALL are allowed by ZOS. You can request anything you want... you cannot demand it.
Otherwise I would just demand that I am the sole owner of ALL mats and everyone would have to pay me tribute with each use....0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
That's plain wrong, you do get better loot with this CP from murder too.
It doesn't state that in the passive description. It says you get it from pickpocketing only. Do you have a source for that claim? I'd love to see it, would make things easier.
I'm a professional mass murderer with well over 500.000 NPC's killed and a combined bounty of over 300 million gold. Dunno if that's good enough evidence for you, for me it is.
I mean I have killed a lot of NPCs too. I have an entire toon dedicated to it. But you can't just tell by that. You have to track your loot with the passive used only while pickpocketing. And the passive used while dead. And you have to do this across a ton of items not just like 100 or some other small number. And then see if the rate of better items has changed. You get nice items regardless with either method, so you cannot just state I get purples when I kill so it's working. This passive increases the rate you find nice stuff.
I don't need to compare it to pickpocketing, just killing with and without it and i absolutely get better loot when it's active. My sample size is hundreds of thousands of items in that regard.
Yes. You do, because you have to see if it's the same as murder. You also need to actually record your results, not go by what you remember. The human mind is notoriously bad at such things. Like there are tons of people that still swear they get better drops from refining in batches instead of all at once. But, this was disproven by someone who recorded this information for thousands of refines. We have all kinds of biases e.g. observation bias that makes it difficult to discern such thing from experience alone.4 -
MreeBiPolar✭✭✭✭✭ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »
I've never had it happen in other zones, but in Vvardenfell if you pick 3 times and then blade of woe you've got a chance (although only a chance) of getting a 4th item. I'm pretty sure the 4th item (if you get one) is always a style mat for one of the Vvardenfell styles, but it's possible I might have also had Vvardenfell motifs drop as the 4th item: I can't remember for sure. It's definitely never one of the usual treasures you get from pickpocketing that's only intended for selling to fences.Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »I have never received anything for killing the mark if I perform all three picks first. The only thing killing does is allow the NPC to respawn which resets the items they carry.
I've had that happen too, but it isn't linked to assassination. My thieves can proc a fourth and even fifth pick in Vvardenfell without killing and receive style materials on those picks. It can happen rarely in Auridon as well, where you can get either a human skull or an elsweyr coffin/lid furnishing plan.
Not limited to Auridon, it happens depending on the target's type. Had 4 picks from assassins all over Tamriel.nightstrike wrote: »My record is 6 picks (with a 40% probability on that last pick) before getting empty pockets. It's happened 4 times now.
There's no reason you can't stab when the pockets are empty if you want a faster respawn.
And for those who think that pocket contents are shared between players, they aren't. So resetting an NPC's pockets for you (or not) has no bearing on pocket contents for any other player.
The success probability no longer decreases beyond 3rd pick.
And with Ember's passive, you can get the hidden wallet as 4th pick, so to add to all the arguments above, pick-pick-stab is also obsolete for that reason.1 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »What is that? Does anything happen if you kill after the pockets are empty?
There's a passive that increases the quality of your loot from pickpocketing in the green tree. AFAIK, it only applies if you do it from the pickpocketing rng thing and not from looting corpses. Nothing happens if you kill after the pockets are empty (other than npc respawning with new loot), it's just that passive only applies to pockets that were picked. So you don't get the increased chance for better loot.
That's plain wrong, you do get better loot with this CP from murder too.
It doesn't state that in the passive description. It says you get it from pickpocketing only. Do you have a source for that claim? I'd love to see it, would make things easier.
I'm a professional mass murderer with well over 500.000 NPC's killed and a combined bounty of over 300 million gold. Dunno if that's good enough evidence for you, for me it is.
I mean I have killed a lot of NPCs too. I have an entire toon dedicated to it. But you can't just tell by that. You have to track your loot with the passive used only while pickpocketing. And the passive used while dead. And you have to do this across a ton of items not just like 100 or some other small number. And then see if the rate of better items has changed. You get nice items regardless with either method, so you cannot just state I get purples when I kill so it's working. This passive increases the rate you find nice stuff.
I don't need to compare it to pickpocketing, just killing with and without it and i absolutely get better loot when it's active. My sample size is hundreds of thousands of items in that regard.
Yes. You do, because you have to see if it's the same as murder. You also need to actually record your results, not go by what you remember. The human mind is notoriously bad at such things. Like there are tons of people that still swear they get better drops from refining in batches instead of all at once. But, this was disproven by someone who recorded this information for thousands of refines. We have all kinds of biases e.g. observation bias that makes it difficult to discern such thing from experience alone.
No, i don't. I did a lot of tests on murdering with and without it and using it absolutely increases quality. Comparing it with regular pickpocketing is irrelevant to me, i'm rarely doing it these days. All i know is that i get less white items with this CP and that's all i care for.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.0 -
grapedog✭✭✭nightstrike wrote: »My record is 6 picks (with a 40% probability on that last pick) before getting empty pockets. It's happened 4 times now.
There's no reason you can't stab when the pockets are empty if you want a faster respawn.
And for those who think that pocket contents are shared between players, they aren't. So resetting an NPC's pockets for you (or not) has no bearing on pocket contents for any other player.
Mine might be six as well, but like you, it is super rare, and i got nothing specifically good from it otherwise i think i would remember better... i just know a rare few times, less than 5, ive gotten more than 4.
What do you mean by pockets are not shared? I know just recently i was in the presence of another thief when high isle just dropped as almost all the NPCs were already empty in the city. It was a struggle to find targets.Edited by grapedog on July 9, 2022 1:54AM1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yesterday I was picking pockets for the endeavor. I finished and on my way to the outlaw refuge I passed by an NPC whose pockets I had picked a minute earlier, only someone had BoW'd him. The strange part is that I was able to loot him even though I never harmed him.PCNA0 -
aurorable✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Yesterday I was picking pockets for the endeavor. I finished and on my way to the outlaw refuge I passed by an NPC whose pockets I had picked a minute earlier, only someone had BoW'd him. The strange part is that I was able to loot him even though I never harmed him.
This is normal, I use that to my advantage when you get a "stab happy" person killing all the npc without pickpocketing. Just pickpocket one time and do this with all the npc in the area and then wait
Free loot with no work! Crazy Cat Lady
PC/NA CP2600+Stamsorc DPS (Master Crafter)
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And last.. but not least another crafter!0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »MaraxusTheOrc wrote: »Been participating in the Justice system since it launched, but I’ve never thought about the murder of a mark as “proper etiquette.”
If you’re new to thieving, please do not feel pressured to assassinate your marks. If you just want to steal one or two items, that is entirely your prerogative.
While I disagree that you should be compelled in this way, ZOS designed it so pockets can only be picked twice before nothing will be gained on pickpocketing attempts.
Seems like a bad decision for an MMO to me, but what do I know?
That's untrue. Three picks is the standard amount. And an additional pick can very rarely be found. When you BOW someone, you get a drop from their pocket at the stage of pickpocketing you were on (minus passives) and no further stages.
So if you BOW on stage 1 of being able to pickpocket, you get a stage 1 loot, but not stage 2 or stage 3. This is why people tend to BOW at stage 3. Because then they get the stage 3 loot, without having to deal with the reduced chance of a successful pick.
There are certain areas and certain NPC classes that can drop up to eight items. And during the event, Zenithar boxes are added to their drops, not taking the place of a drop. So if you consistently only pick, pick, and stab, you are missing out on quite a bit of loot.
I say this as someone who has six characters with the Black Market Mogul achievement, and has made many millions of gold from theft.1