Please Review Surveys!

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

We regularly see requests to simplify gathering surveys, such as making them gatherable at once, not in the tedious process now.

This is now further frustrated by the regular times an attempt to gather a survey sport fails or seriously delays for no apparent reason. This is likely due to the limit on characters interacting too quickly, but it is rally frustrating, especially when gathering a stack of surveys.

It is also bad, as has been noted, that we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn. And this is sometimes impossible (I am looking at you, southern Wrothgar - near the public dungeon!) so we have to either drop down and go through hoops to get back or zone to an unpurchased house and back, wasting both processing time and player time.

ZOS, please, please, please optimize this. Most of this could immediately be accomplished by simply making the nodes spawn based on the number of surveys we hold. One trip around 6 would make all these problems go away and change nothing, but save time for both the player and the system. Alchemy would have to be addressed, though I could live with the same approach, just hold fewer if you don't want multiples of the 6 random spawns. Enchanting spots already seem to have a random element, so just multiplying that would hopefully work.

This would take a bit of time, but should not be a serious amount since it would just be a multiple. Please consider and then implement this!

I know it won't stop the naysayers, but we have already put in the time to gather the surveys. Making it take longer to gather them adds no value. This approach would still require us to gather them.

=====

That said, I would also gladly pay a reasonable amount of gold to gather them. This would be a gold sink and useful, as long as it wasn't overpriced. Having to initially guy the one gathering like we buy the banker and shopkeeper now would be reasonable. Say 10-100 gold per survey?

phaneub17_ESO · June 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It is also bad, as has been noted, that we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn.

Based on personal experience, with the addon HarvestMap, most survey spots refresh once the Red X fades away unless I missed a node which then stay up at a much longer distance, its a good indication to look for that missing node then try again. There's one enchanting node that refreshes just a few steps away in Western Skyrim because there's a phased, scripted battle between a giant boar and a mammoth every time you go near it. Going into a phased area counts as getting away from the location, but only a few survey areas are close to one and it's not always obvious.

The problem is knowing where the "center" of the survey is and that's the point you need to get away from to clear the distance.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It is also bad, as has been noted, that we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn.

Based on personal experience, with the addon HarvestMap, most survey spots refresh once the Red X fades away unless I missed a node which then stay up at a much longer distance, its a good indication to look for that missing node then try again. There's one enchanting node that refreshes just a few steps away in Western Skyrim because there's a phased, scripted battle between a giant boar and a mammoth every time you go near it. Going into a phased area counts as getting away from the location, but only a few survey areas are close to one and it's not always obvious.

The problem is knowing where the "center" of the survey is and that's the point you need to get away from to clear the distance.

I use HarvestMap. It helps, but does not address the issues I note here.

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

As someone who has 30 accounts and completed around 12k surveys this year so far I really fail to see how this is an issue.

Jewelry surveys have the shortest respawn range in all base zones, and all surveys were adjusted in elyswyr and new zones.

The only time surveys become an annoyance is when you let them accumulate. That is on the player not ZOS. ZOS wasn't responsible for the player not going out and collecting them. The best ways to stop them from accumulating is to either do them or stop doing crafting writs.

Where surveys are located is intentional. All of them.

Even with the annoyance of gathering them they still remain a high concentration of guaranteed mats.

Honestly the only thing I wish zos would let us do with them would be to allow us to trade them.

I think I could start a good side hustle completing them for others.

SgtWinnie · June 2022

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

As someone who has 30 accounts and completed around 12k surveys this year so far I really fail to see how this is an issue.

Jewelry surveys have the shortest respawn range in all base zones, and all surveys were adjusted in elyswyr and new zones.

The only time surveys become an annoyance is when you let them accumulate. That is on the player not ZOS. ZOS wasn't responsible for the player not going out and collecting them. The best ways to stop them from accumulating is to either do them or stop doing crafting writs.

Where surveys are located is intentional. All of them.

Even with the annoyance of gathering them they still remain a high concentration of guaranteed mats.

Honestly the only thing I wish zos would let us do with them would be to allow us to trade them.

I think I could start a good side hustle completing them for others.

LOL I bet you could!!!

SgtWinnie · June 2022

In fact...I would hire you mate. I have a backlog of surveys atm

redlink1979 · June 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

(...)we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn. (...)

Use as benchmark the distance between Geirmund's Hall wayshrine, in The Rift, and the enchantment survey report SE of it.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

redlink1979 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

(...)we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn. (...)

Use as benchmark the distance between Geirmund's Hall wayshrine, in The Rift, and the enchantment survey report SE of it.

I know about when it usually happens. The annoying fact is that it still varies and is a really annoying "feature".

No added value whatsoever.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

As someone who has 30 accounts and completed around 12k surveys this year so far I really fail to see how this is an issue.

Jewelry surveys have the shortest respawn range in all base zones, and all surveys were adjusted in elyswyr and new zones.

The only time surveys become an annoyance is when you let them accumulate. That is on the player not ZOS. ZOS wasn't responsible for the player not going out and collecting them. The best ways to stop them from accumulating is to either do them or stop doing crafting writs.

Where surveys are located is intentional. All of them.

Even with the annoyance of gathering them they still remain a high concentration of guaranteed mats.

Honestly the only thing I wish zos would let us do with them would be to allow us to trade them.

I think I could start a good side hustle completing them for others.

So? Just because they chose where to locate them does not mean the location is good. I am glad you enjoy spending a lot of your time collecting them, but I tend to just pile them up because I am too busy playing the rest of the game - questing (PvE and PvP), running delves and dungeons, gaining skillpoints, etc.

Going to them to gather them may go quicker with just a few, but it still takes time to get there, time I could be enjoying the rest of the game.

Grinding daily crafting is still quite tedious, even with addons. Why must this part be tedious as well? Instead of saying "I can live with it" how about we look at how to make it more enjoyable?

Wouldn't focusing more on reasonable enjoyment help the game do better, even selling more Crowns and such?

(And don't bring up the unrealistic things, this is not unrealistic nor a pay-to-win item.)

oldbobdude · June 2022

I like stockpiling them up and then doing a lot at one time. Of course it’s refining them that I like. Watch those gold and purple mats roll out. The respawn distance doesn’t bother me, just mount, ride a little and go back. If you miss go a little further.

Hapexamendios · June 2022

I find the problem I have with surveys are self inflicted ie letting them pile up.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I find the problem I have with surveys are self inflicted ie letting them pile up.

That is the fault of the game, not the player.

Gathering them should not require so much hoop jumping.

Amottica · June 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It is also bad, as has been noted, that we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn.

Based on personal experience, with the addon HarvestMap, most survey spots refresh once the Red X fades away unless I missed a node which then stay up at a much longer distance, its a good indication to look for that missing node then try again. There's one enchanting node that refreshes just a few steps away in Western Skyrim because there's a phased, scripted battle between a giant boar and a mammoth every time you go near it. Going into a phased area counts as getting away from the location, but only a few survey areas are close to one and it's not always obvious.

The problem is knowing where the "center" of the survey is and that's the point you need to get away from to clear the distance.

I use HarvestMap. It helps, but does not address the issues I note here.

I expect the idea is that we do the surveys when we get them. We are creating our own problems by collecting them and doing them en mass. That is where the complaint threads mentioned come into play.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

Amottica wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

It is also bad, as has been noted, that we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn.

Based on personal experience, with the addon HarvestMap, most survey spots refresh once the Red X fades away unless I missed a node which then stay up at a much longer distance, its a good indication to look for that missing node then try again. There's one enchanting node that refreshes just a few steps away in Western Skyrim because there's a phased, scripted battle between a giant boar and a mammoth every time you go near it. Going into a phased area counts as getting away from the location, but only a few survey areas are close to one and it's not always obvious.

The problem is knowing where the "center" of the survey is and that's the point you need to get away from to clear the distance.

I use HarvestMap. It helps, but does not address the issues I note here.

I expect the idea is that we do the surveys when we get them. We are creating our own problems by collecting them and doing them en mass. That is where the complaint threads mentioned come into play.

No, "we are not creating problems" the design is creating problems. What indicates surveys must be picked up immediately? I am thankful they stack (unlike other things) but that should indicate allowing us to collect them is part of a reasonable plan. Just follow through a bit more and let use gather them all at once!

Zenzuki · June 2022

I really wish they'd add something like a writ board/vendor (or possibly a guild feature), where people that don't like doing the survey's or don't have time, could post up their surveys.

People (like myself) that like doing them could take a few (there should be a daily limit - like any daily) and go do them for these individuals. Once I do them, the pulled items automatically go to the poster in a mail. My rewards are also posted to me in a mail.

For doing these, the rewards to the poster are the normal mats (and quantities) that dropped from the nodes. (So if the person that does the writ has CP into gaining additional pulls from the nodes -- they all go to the requester). Yay! Bonus.

The completer of the writ rewards should be a number of transmutes, maps/keys and/or furniture mats. (The amount could very by some variance based on if you had CP enabled that gave you higher pulls from the nodes). Yay! Bonus.

Everybody wins...

People too busy/non-bothered can effectively get an "assistant" to do them and receive them in the mail. (somewhat like the npcs crafting mails) and go about their gaming day/night. With the added benefit of "possibly" getting more mats if the person doing them applied the proper CP.

People that like to do them, it gives them another daily gameplay loop that rewards them in more desirable rewards that they may not have easy access to in their daily gameplay loop. And since the rewards for doing them would be better for applying CP and ensuring you provided more mats to the customer, you'd be incentivized to do so.

What say you?

ZOS?

xgoku1 · June 2022

Surveys respawning when you move away from them seems like a bug turned feature that the devs rolled with (like LA weaving)

Seriously, if I have 5 maps to the same survey, isn't it a better user experience to give 5x rewards in one go rather than this finicky respawn mechanic?

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

xgoku1 wrote: »

Surveys respawning when you move away from them seems like a bug turned feature that the devs rolled with (like LA weaving)

Seriously, if I have 5 maps to the same survey, isn't it a better user experience to give 5x rewards in one go rather than this finicky respawn mechanic?

[snip]

That is why I suggested this.

The varying "travel away" amount gets really annoying.

[Edited for Baiting]

Dayhjawk · June 2022

What I wish they would do is get rid of the passive hirlings that mail you resources, and instead put in an npc for each one that you can give a survey to. the npc will go out and complete those (20hr cooldown to do another survey), then mail you those resources when he/she is done. You can still go do surveys like normal, but this way you could passively completely 1 a day for each survey type.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

Dayhjawk wrote: »

What I wish they would do is get rid of the passive hirlings that mail you resources, and instead put in an npc for each one that you can give a survey to. the npc will go out and complete those (20hr cooldown to do another survey), then mail you those resources when he/she is done. You can still go do surveys like normal, but this way you could passively completely 1 a day for each survey type.

Why not have both?

Hapexamendios · June 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I find the problem I have with surveys are self inflicted ie letting them pile up.

That is the fault of the game, not the player.

Gathering them should not require so much hoop jumping.

Please don't assume to know my reason for surveys piling up. It is a subject on which you have no knowledge. Suffice to say it isn't the game.

EdmondDontes · June 2022

This is a bit off topic, but does it seem like they reduced the drop rate for crafting surveys a couple updates ago? I feel like I'm getting a lot less of them now days.

EnerG · June 2022

If they changed all the surveys to spawn your next cluster after you harvested the whole first one with more than one survey in your inv. OR even just made all the respawn distances the same so it's not trial and error all the time. Would be the biggest QoL update we could receive.

shadyjane62 · June 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

This is a bit off topic, but does it seem like they reduced the drop rate for crafting surveys a couple updates ago? I feel like I'm getting a lot less of them now days.

I also feel that we are getting less. I used to fill up a cpl of storages and them do them all at once. I am doing them now. Where before I would have 5 or 6 of the same, I now have one or two.

Just another case of somehow we are getting less for our money.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

Hapexamendios wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I find the problem I have with surveys are self inflicted ie letting them pile up.

That is the fault of the game, not the player.

Gathering them should not require so much hoop jumping.

Please don't assume to know my reason for surveys piling up. It is a subject on which you have no knowledge. Suffice to say it isn't the game.

I have no idea why your surveys are piling up. Someone above claimed it was the fault of the players. That is what I was discussing.

DreamyLu · June 2022

Personally, I don't see the issue. I rather believe that the "problem" is the result of player's behavior, who on one side stacks surveys to do all at same time later, and on the other side, wants to do everything at light speed, in a game that isn't tailored to work at light speed.

My way is to go harvest my surveys every day, as last action before to log off. It's comfortable enough and doesn't take very long. I prefer to do a bit every day, that goes fast enough.

Honestly, I even enjoy picking up surveys, because for many, it makes me go into areas I wouldn't visit otherwise, so I use the occasion to visit a bit the zone of the surveys, not to forget potential chests/troves and other resources around coming as nice added values.

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

(...)we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn. (...)

Use as benchmark the distance between Geirmund's Hall wayshrine, in The Rift, and the enchantment survey report SE of it.

I know about when it usually happens. The annoying fact is that it still varies and is a really annoying "feature".

No added value whatsoever.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

As someone who has 30 accounts and completed around 12k surveys this year so far I really fail to see how this is an issue.

Jewelry surveys have the shortest respawn range in all base zones, and all surveys were adjusted in elyswyr and new zones.

The only time surveys become an annoyance is when you let them accumulate. That is on the player not ZOS. ZOS wasn't responsible for the player not going out and collecting them. The best ways to stop them from accumulating is to either do them or stop doing crafting writs.

Where surveys are located is intentional. All of them.

Even with the annoyance of gathering them they still remain a high concentration of guaranteed mats.

Honestly the only thing I wish zos would let us do with them would be to allow us to trade them.

I think I could start a good side hustle completing them for others.

So? Just because they chose where to locate them does not mean the location is good. I am glad you enjoy spending a lot of your time collecting them, but I tend to just pile them up because I am too busy playing the rest of the game - questing (PvE and PvP), running delves and dungeons, gaining skillpoints, etc.

Going to them to gather them may go quicker with just a few, but it still takes time to get there, time I could be enjoying the rest of the game.

Grinding daily crafting is still quite tedious, even with addons. Why must this part be tedious as well? Instead of saying "I can live with it" how about we look at how to make it more enjoyable?

Wouldn't focusing more on reasonable enjoyment help the game do better, even selling more Crowns and such?

(And don't bring up the unrealistic things, this is not unrealistic nor a pay-to-win item.)

I mean I find it unrealistic to ask ZOS to spend the time to make something that was designed to get you out into the overland every so often... to change it so something that you can ignore for weeks and then reap the benefits without putting in the work.

A comparison you may appreciate that I would want the equivalent of. Let's say I ignore a cyro 30 day campaign for the first 29 days. Then I get the ability to rush in that last day and gain AP that I would have gained in those first 29 days at 29x the rate of someone that was there the whole campaign... would that be fair?

I find that my request to allow surveys to be traded like maps are to be a lot more reasonable than your request to reward what is essentially procrastination.

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

Zenzuki wrote: »

I really wish they'd add something like a writ board/vendor (or possibly a guild feature), where people that don't like doing the survey's or don't have time, could post up their surveys.

People (like myself) that like doing them could take a few (there should be a daily limit - like any daily) and go do them for these individuals. Once I do them, the pulled items automatically go to the poster in a mail. My rewards are also posted to me in a mail.

For doing these, the rewards to the poster are the normal mats (and quantities) that dropped from the nodes. (So if the person that does the writ has CP into gaining additional pulls from the nodes -- they all go to the requester). Yay! Bonus.

The completer of the writ rewards should be a number of transmutes, maps/keys and/or furniture mats. (The amount could very by some variance based on if you had CP enabled that gave you higher pulls from the nodes). Yay! Bonus.

Everybody wins...

People too busy/non-bothered can effectively get an "assistant" to do them and receive them in the mail. (somewhat like the npcs crafting mails) and go about their gaming day/night. With the added benefit of "possibly" getting more mats if the person doing them applied the proper CP.

People that like to do them, it gives them another daily gameplay loop that rewards them in more desirable rewards that they may not have easy access to in their daily gameplay loop. And since the rewards for doing them would be better for applying CP and ensuring you provided more mats to the customer, you'd be incentivized to do so.

What say you?

ZOS?

So with your writ board idea. Can you clarify how passives like Plentiful harvest works? Who gets those mats? The person that posted it? Or the person completing the quest?

And how would you treat alchemy nodes?

Also, surveys spawn nodes based on the person with the surveys crafting passives and levels in mind. How would that work?

How would you treat special spawns that occur on nodes such as Aetherial Dust or Potent nirncrux.

How would you handle such factors with the assistant? These are all things ZOS would have to spend some time dealing with and then face the inevitable complaints about fairness. Not entirely certain these fit the realms of reasonable solutions.

ApoAlaia · June 2022

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

(...)we cannot be certain exactly how far we have to run away to get the survey area to respawn. (...)

Use as benchmark the distance between Geirmund's Hall wayshrine, in The Rift, and the enchantment survey report SE of it.

I know about when it usually happens. The annoying fact is that it still varies and is a really annoying "feature".

No added value whatsoever.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

As someone who has 30 accounts and completed around 12k surveys this year so far I really fail to see how this is an issue.

Jewelry surveys have the shortest respawn range in all base zones, and all surveys were adjusted in elyswyr and new zones.

The only time surveys become an annoyance is when you let them accumulate. That is on the player not ZOS. ZOS wasn't responsible for the player not going out and collecting them. The best ways to stop them from accumulating is to either do them or stop doing crafting writs.

Where surveys are located is intentional. All of them.

Even with the annoyance of gathering them they still remain a high concentration of guaranteed mats.

Honestly the only thing I wish zos would let us do with them would be to allow us to trade them.

I think I could start a good side hustle completing them for others.

So? Just because they chose where to locate them does not mean the location is good. I am glad you enjoy spending a lot of your time collecting them, but I tend to just pile them up because I am too busy playing the rest of the game - questing (PvE and PvP), running delves and dungeons, gaining skillpoints, etc.

Going to them to gather them may go quicker with just a few, but it still takes time to get there, time I could be enjoying the rest of the game.

Grinding daily crafting is still quite tedious, even with addons. Why must this part be tedious as well? Instead of saying "I can live with it" how about we look at how to make it more enjoyable?

Wouldn't focusing more on reasonable enjoyment help the game do better, even selling more Crowns and such?

(And don't bring up the unrealistic things, this is not unrealistic nor a pay-to-win item.)

I mean I find it unrealistic to ask ZOS to spend the time to make something that was designed to get you out into the overland every so often... to change it so something that you can ignore for weeks and then reap the benefits without putting in the work.

A comparison you may appreciate that I would want the equivalent of. Let's say I ignore a cyro 30 day campaign for the first 29 days. Then I get the ability to rush in that last day and gain AP that I would have gained in those first 29 days at 29x the rate of someone that was there the whole campaign... would that be fair?

I find that my request to allow surveys to be traded like maps are to be a lot more reasonable than your request to reward what is essentially procrastination.

To use your simile, sure, why not?

If you spend the campaign fixing walls, maybe an hour or two every day, but this doesn't yield AP, it yields 'AP cache maps' that lead you to locations on the map where you can dig out six chests that upon opening produce AP and you choose to dig out all the 'AP chests' on day 30 I would definitely be OK with what you propose.

Surveys do not magically materialise in our inventories while we engage in other activities, surveys come from doing daily writs.

We can't ignore daily writs for 29 days and on the 30th have the surveys magically delivered for us to harvest.

On a more productive note yes, surveys definitely are long overdue for a QoL pass.

There is also a thread in the crafting sub, please feel free to chime in with ideas or comments:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/605909/littel-but-important-qol-improvent-stacked-surveys-usable-at-once#latest

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

shadyjane62 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

This is a bit off topic, but does it seem like they reduced the drop rate for crafting surveys a couple updates ago? I feel like I'm getting a lot less of them now days.

I also feel that we are getting less. I used to fill up a cpl of storages and them do them all at once. I am doing them now. Where before I would have 5 or 6 of the same, I now have one or two.

Just another case of somehow we are getting less for our money.

I suggest you both go into the crafting thread and take a look at TMBANKS spreadsheet that catalogs all crafting daily drops and drop rates.

Nothing has changed to my knowledge and my own tracking. Rng is rng.

ApoAlaia · June 2022

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

This is a bit off topic, but does it seem like they reduced the drop rate for crafting surveys a couple updates ago? I feel like I'm getting a lot less of them now days.

I also feel that we are getting less. I used to fill up a cpl of storages and them do them all at once. I am doing them now. Where before I would have 5 or 6 of the same, I now have one or two.

Just another case of somehow we are getting less for our money.

I suggest you both go into the crafting thread and take a look at TMBANKS spreadsheet that catalogs all crafting daily drops and drop rates.

Nothing has changed to my knowledge and my own tracking. Rng is rng.

I have been keeping track with 26 characters doing daily writs against both tmbrink's spreadsheet and the spreadsheet one of our guild masters maintains.

I am no statistician but I haven't seen any deviation that warrants asking one 'hey, would you mind having a look at these numbers? seems to me that something odd is going on here'

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

I find the problem I have with surveys are self inflicted ie letting them pile up.

That is the fault of the game, not the player.

Gathering them should not require so much hoop jumping.

Please don't assume to know my reason for surveys piling up. It is a subject on which you have no knowledge. Suffice to say it isn't the game.

I have no idea why your surveys are piling up. Someone above claimed it was the fault of the players. That is what I was discussing.

And I stand by my statement that it is player driven and an issue that only players should solve within the confines of the game.

You don't have to do surveys. You can trash them if you want, or you can not do daily writs. Look at jewelry master writs. Those get trashed or sold cheap by the bulk of players.

Also factor in ZOS's issues with your suggestion. Players are highly superstitious about how they play. To this day I know players that insist that if they refine at x time at y station, with z gear that they will have the BEST refining RNG.

When ZOS released the ability to multi refine players insisted and still do that it was broken and the RNG was worse than refining one at a time.

Imagine that with surveys? Imagine the complaining that they will get that insists that 20 crag surveys didn't spawn a single nirncrux when Las week the did 10 in singles and got 12?

And what advantage does ZOS get out of that deal other than time spent and another rng headache?

Surveys stack, I remember when that wasn't the case. I appreciate that they stack.

But consider that one of the solutions to your indicated problem is simple to not let them stack anymore. Then you wouldn't have as many between rounds

Tra_Lalan · June 2022

For me harvesting surveys is work. You spend time on something you don't like to do but you have to do it you want the gold.

The question is: do you like to work in a video game? I personaly don't.

So yes, please. Also you can fix the CP while implementing it. 50% more chance guys.. maybe someday.