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Monster Set Shoulder Piece RNG Ridiculously bad
BXR_Lonestar
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The last two times I've pulled for monster shoulder pieces, I've blown a total of 140 keys, and I still haven't pulled the armor weight of the shoulder pieces I need. To be more specific, I blew 85 keys trying to get Earth Gore Epaulets (light armor), which was the last remaining piece I didn't have from the monster set. That's 17 pulls to try to get one specific shoulder armor piece (I had the heavy and the medium Earth Gore pieces and all the Domihaus shoulder pieces), and I did not get it.
Fast forward to this weekend, I blew another 60 (or more) keys trying to get Engine Guardian Epaulets (light). I had both the heavy and the medium shoulder pieces for Engine Guardian, and all the shoulder pieces for Sentinal of Rkangthmz, so surely I could get ONE of the shoulder pieces I needed in 12 pulls? Nope. All 60 of my keys blown, with nothing to shown for it.
Now I loved the change from the system where you spent 1 key to get a totally RNG pull for shoulders - and it could be from ANY of the dungeons that Pledgemaster offered - to the current system where you have 5 keys, and you can narrow your selection to try to get a piece from just a handfull of dungeons, but the RNG is ridiculously bad, and it completely wastes the player's effort made in grinding out all those keys. A couple of things that need improvement here, IMO are:
1. Curated drops for shoulder pieces (i.e., apply the smart loot system to Shoulder Pieces so RNG is weighted towards you getting the pieces you are missing);
2. Increase number of keys awarded for Vet Dungeon HM. It's only ONE additional key, and depending on which dungeon it is, the increased difficulty is not worth the extra key. Perhaps each dungeon should have a difficulty rating where the number of keys awarded for a hard mode completion (2) is multiplied by the difficulty rating so the extra effort is more greatly rewarded.
3. Have a separate "golden" vendor tied to the Undaunted that will allow you to purchase shoulders for gold on the weekends. I know the Golden already does this, but its random whether she has helmets or shoulders, and if your looking on that particular shoulder piece to perfect your build and you've had crap RNG in pulling shoulders (like I have), this gives you an additional chance at getting what you want.
4. Lower the price of the boxes to just 2 keys per pull. That gives you 3 chances per day if you do all 3 Vet Pledges on HM to get what you want (per character of course); or
5. More undaunted-related events that give you exponentially more keys for Pledge completions and your first random.
Bottom line is that I just think it is complete crap that it takes so much time to accumulate enough keys to make a number of pulls to give you a good chance to get what you want - only to not get what you want. That's a complete devaluation of my time as a player, and IMO, this should really be addressed, if not by one of the four ways suggested above, then another way that makes it easier (not necessarily easy, just easier) for you to get what you need. 30+ pulls to try to get 2 shoulder pieces you're looking for, only to wind up with NONE is just unacceptable.
Fast forward to this weekend, I blew another 60 (or more) keys trying to get Engine Guardian Epaulets (light). I had both the heavy and the medium shoulder pieces for Engine Guardian, and all the shoulder pieces for Sentinal of Rkangthmz, so surely I could get ONE of the shoulder pieces I needed in 12 pulls? Nope. All 60 of my keys blown, with nothing to shown for it.
Now I loved the change from the system where you spent 1 key to get a totally RNG pull for shoulders - and it could be from ANY of the dungeons that Pledgemaster offered - to the current system where you have 5 keys, and you can narrow your selection to try to get a piece from just a handfull of dungeons, but the RNG is ridiculously bad, and it completely wastes the player's effort made in grinding out all those keys. A couple of things that need improvement here, IMO are:
1. Curated drops for shoulder pieces (i.e., apply the smart loot system to Shoulder Pieces so RNG is weighted towards you getting the pieces you are missing);
2. Increase number of keys awarded for Vet Dungeon HM. It's only ONE additional key, and depending on which dungeon it is, the increased difficulty is not worth the extra key. Perhaps each dungeon should have a difficulty rating where the number of keys awarded for a hard mode completion (2) is multiplied by the difficulty rating so the extra effort is more greatly rewarded.
3. Have a separate "golden" vendor tied to the Undaunted that will allow you to purchase shoulders for gold on the weekends. I know the Golden already does this, but its random whether she has helmets or shoulders, and if your looking on that particular shoulder piece to perfect your build and you've had crap RNG in pulling shoulders (like I have), this gives you an additional chance at getting what you want.
4. Lower the price of the boxes to just 2 keys per pull. That gives you 3 chances per day if you do all 3 Vet Pledges on HM to get what you want (per character of course); or
5. More undaunted-related events that give you exponentially more keys for Pledge completions and your first random.
Bottom line is that I just think it is complete crap that it takes so much time to accumulate enough keys to make a number of pulls to give you a good chance to get what you want - only to not get what you want. That's a complete devaluation of my time as a player, and IMO, this should really be addressed, if not by one of the four ways suggested above, then another way that makes it easier (not necessarily easy, just easier) for you to get what you need. 30+ pulls to try to get 2 shoulder pieces you're looking for, only to wind up with NONE is just unacceptable.
10
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pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭Never buy 5s... ever. Spend your keys on 1s, you can get motifs, extra stuff to sell, stuff to decon and you will often use some of the other monster shoulders too. I have not bought 5s of anything in years now
There is no need for more keys if you are doing pledges every day. I was back as zero a few days ago, I m back to 50 now.
I have never had an issue getting shoulders using the 1s. Yes, I understand statistics very well, 1s should be worse.
There are other reasons to buy 1s, but I am not covering it in a forum post.Edited by pklemming on May 30, 2022 9:16PM10 -
M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭Definitely agree with 1 and 2.
I never use the 1 key option because I have most shoulders and only want the few I’m missing.
Even if they made a 10 key option that was curated, that would be better.
3 is pretty much pay to win so I don’t support that.0 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I used 200ish keys to get a Zaan medium shoulder before ZOS upgrade the Pledge Masters
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drsalvation✭✭✭✭✭Definitely agree with 1 and 2.
I never use the 1 key option because I have most shoulders and only want the few I’m missing.
Even if they made a 10 key option that was curated, that would be better.
3 is pretty much pay to win so I don’t support that.
He said pay with gold, not crowns.
That said, yeah, I do wish that shoulders were curated.
It's bad enough to have to grind vet dungeons for the helmets, I think being able to get shoulders on the go is a good motivator to push for veteran dungeons.
Despite everything, I don't feel ready to tank veteran dread cellar for the monster helm, especially since I know how grinding the boxes for the shoulders can be. I'd be willing to give it a go if I knew I could get the shoulders in a guaranteed way. My brother spent all his keys for molag kena, and he only got shoulders from the other set from that same box. I think he got a total of 7 boxes and not a single molag kena shoulder set.1 -
Dark_Lord_Kuro✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the 5 key coffer you already have much higher vhance to get your shoulder, about 16.6% wich is much better than the regular coffer. A good option would be to offer another tier of coffer with only one monster set in it for bigger cost
They should update pledge so vet give 2 keys and hm give 3
I dont think a new golden for shoulder is nessesary
Why would anyone use key if you could just buy all of them at the new golden
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JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Definitely agree that the Shoulder piece's should be much easier to get. Shouldn't be random at all in my opinion.
The Pledge giver should be setup so we can select the Shoulder piece we want and that's it. Why make it so we go through possibly hundreds of keys to get one missing piece? It's absurd.
We don't do that for the Monster heads at all. You are guaranteed to get the missing Monster head for your collection when you run the appropriate dungeon in Vet. Why make the Shoulder pieces so much more difficult to acquire? It should be a purchasable piece with Undaunted Keys.
Now since it currently is NOT that way I highly suggest not using your Undaunted Keys to get Shoulder pieces if your luck is bad. If you are not in a hurry to complete the Collection eventually (I think) the Shoulder piece you need will turn up at the Golden Vendor. I think all Shoulder pieces cycle through but I could be wrong. Much easier to buy a Shoulder piece with AP or 100K Gold.
I've purchased many Shoulder pieces from the Golden over the years.0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Research the trait you want, get the monster should in each weight, craft it...0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Isn't it the more monster sets are added, the harder it is to get the shoulder piece?
Or have they split it so you can choose from a few pools instead of one large pool? I haven't run a dungeon in years.1 -
jecks33✭✭✭✭✭
✭In general they should increase the rewards from dlc dungeons.
It's crazy that FG1 HM and Coral Aerie HM give the same amount of keys and transmutes (same for ranrom dungeons normal/vet that give the same amount of xp and crystals)Edited by jecks33 on May 31, 2022 4:46PMPC-EU3 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I feel you OP in fact one of our DPS in my trial last night blew 160 keys doing the same thing. The RNG is ridiculous.0 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Research the trait you want, get the monster should in each weight, craft it...
He can’t do that if it’s never dropped for him which is his issue3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Been a while since I did the math. If there is really only one piece you are after from a given vendor, then yeah, the 5 key boxes make sense. That said, for the vast majority of people, you should just spend the single keys in an effort to fill your book as much as possible. The stats favor the single keys until you only missing 1 or 2 pieces total from a given vendor.
I was missing a light Kragh forever. It was the only non DLC shoudler I didnt have. I would occasionally drop 5 keys on it, did get it eventually.
Also, its super rare that you need a specific armor weight if its not a DPS set. Helm and shoulders have identical armor ratings, so you can always use those to help manage your weights as well. So unless really going for 7 light, you can probably work around it.1 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭And then two days ago, I got one 5-key box and wanted a light shoulder, and got the light shoulder I was looking for. It was a base game dungeon box too, so it could have been the wrong set entirely.
RNG is RNG, and though my RNG is usually terrible in this game, that one was good. But I don't recommend doing that, just buy the 1 key boxes.Edited by merpins on May 31, 2022 5:08PM1 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭[/quote]Also, its super rare that you need a specific armor weight if its not a DPS set. Helm and shoulders have identical armor ratings, so you can always use those to help manage your weights as well. So unless really going for 7 light, you can probably work around it. [/quote]
Tanks like to wear all heavy armor too, and one of these particular pieces was for my DK Tank. At any rate, this was more of a case of "I have limited transmutes and I only need one shoulder piece to reduce the cost. I SHOULD be able to get it within a few pulls...." - 12 pulls later and no dice.
We have smart loot/curated drops for dungeons now, I don't see why the same RNG can't apply to shoulder pieces. As I indicated before, doesn't need to be a guaranteed chance, just have RNG weighted in your favor. It's ridiculous that you can pull multiples of the same (but wrong) weight of the monster set you are looking for, but can't get ONE in the right weight with that many pulls.2 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just let people buy the exact weight and trait they want for 5 keys already, plenty people don’t like grind boring old dungeons just for keys4 -
Caribou77✭✭✭✭✭100% agree with OP. I blew 60 keys trying to get medium Chudan shoulders and got like 10 light and 2 heavy. Zero medium. That was way too many hours grinding dungeons when I play the game for PVP. ;p0
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DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »Research the trait you want, get the monster should in each weight, craft it...
He can’t do that if it’s never dropped for him which is his issue
Huh how? If you're hunting monster sets now you've had 50 levels at minimum to get all the traits. Just by doing quests and then researching the traits you'll get that done easily enough, yes time consuming if you don't do it in a good order, but still.
Anybody saying they have done like 100s of RNG rolls and say they haven't gotten a weight of each is just straight up lying.
Once you have the weight and the trait research make it. It is simple.0 -
LashanW✭✭✭✭✭
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They would be lying if shoulder drops had a fail-safe (or a pity system) for bad RNG. But there isn't, RNG here is unbound. Meaning it's possible to do a 100 rolls and never get the weight you want.DMuehlhausen wrote: »Anybody saying they have done like 100s of RNG rolls and say they haven't gotten a weight of each is just straight up lying.
Take a look at this for example. I was opening 5 key coffers. I wanted Sentinel medium piece. There should be a 50% chance of getting a Sentinel piece (any weight), and 50% chance of getting Engine Guardian piece (any weight).
There's 13 rolls here (65 keys)
12 Engine Guardian pieces and only 1 Sentinel piece. Technically nothing wrong here since it's unbounded RNG with no fail-safe. Personally I didn't care as I had thousands of keys.---No longer active in ESO---
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pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭The 1 keys get you decon stuff, motifs, rare motifs(if they are on the vendor), Yes, the chance it less, but I always have a better experience with the 1s, then the 5s. Each to their own, though. I never buy less than 30 boxes at a time, usually 50.
Not what we are talking about here, but I got 3 Prior Therric shoulders from 40 boxes and 1 mercenary motif.0 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd use the 5-key piece, get the item in any weight/trait to be able to complete my gear, and then if I had extra keys I'd try for my preferred weight. The thing I found is that if you open boxes sequentially, you tend to get a lot of repeats, like in that screenshot posted in a comment above, so I think there might be something messed up with the way rng events work with these boxes. I had better chances of getting a different drop by waiting, or swapping to another character.0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »Research the trait you want, get the monster should in each weight, craft it...
He can’t do that if it’s never dropped for him which is his issue
Huh how? If you're hunting monster sets now you've had 50 levels at minimum to get all the traits. Just by doing quests and then researching the traits you'll get that done easily enough, yes time consuming if you don't do it in a good order, but still.
Anybody saying they have done like 100s of RNG rolls and say they haven't gotten a weight of each is just straight up lying.
Once you have the weight and the trait research make it. It is simple.
The problem is that I was pulling shoulders to get the weight I want. When pulling to try to get that one last piece, to pull 30+ times and not get the piece you want when there is literally only ONE piece left that you need from the DLC dungeon set tandem is not just bad RNG, given how much effort it takes to grind to get those keys, its an egregious waste of player time. Trait isn't an issue because I'm a 9 trait crafter.1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i just dont spend keys on monster sets unless i have 0 collected (such as for a brand new dungeon dlc)
i just wait for them to show up at the gold vendor so i can directly buy what i need with AP lol
have like almost 200 keys just sitting around doing nothing right nowplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities1 -
DigiAngel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yep! In the same boat...been looking for 2 shoulders for ages now....I'll be honestly shocked when it DOES drop though.0 -
bruta✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »i just dont spend keys on monster sets unless i have 0 collected (such as for a brand new dungeon dlc)
i just wait for them to show up at the gold vendor so i can directly buy what i need with AP lol
have like almost 200 keys just sitting around doing nothing right now
yeah that's how I do too, could use the keys during undaunted celebration if there's something nice0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
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They would be lying if shoulder drops had a fail-safe (or a pity system) for bad RNG. But there isn't, RNG here is unbound. Meaning it's possible to do a 100 rolls and never get the weight you want.DMuehlhausen wrote: »Anybody saying they have done like 100s of RNG rolls and say they haven't gotten a weight of each is just straight up lying.
Take a look at this for example. I was opening 5 key coffers. I wanted Sentinel medium piece. There should be a 50% chance of getting a Sentinel piece (any weight), and 50% chance of getting Engine Guardian piece (any weight).
There's 13 rolls here (65 keys)
12 Engine Guardian pieces and only 1 Sentinel piece. Technically nothing wrong here since it's unbounded RNG with no fail-safe. Personally I didn't care as I had thousands of keys.
I mean, technically there is a fail safe. A player should just buy the pieces they need when they pop up in the golden vendor.1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »i just dont spend keys on monster sets unless i have 0 collected (such as for a brand new dungeon dlc)
i just wait for them to show up at the gold vendor so i can directly buy what i need with AP lol
have like almost 200 keys just sitting around doing nothing right now
yeah that's how I do too, could use the keys during undaunted celebration if there's something nice
i usually been spending the keys on the monster shoulder style pages since they are direct buy, but expensive to do that lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Anifaas✭✭✭✭✭This situation has left me completely demoralized. I just spent all my keys, 60-ish, trying to get the iceheart shoulders. I got lots and lots of doubles and even triples of things I can't use but not one set of iceheart shoulders in any weight. This is a terrible system and I hate it. In nearly 60 boxes I got one pattern, which I already know and a whole bunch of useless garbage. Not exactly the kind of user experience that inspires me to spend money on this game at all.1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Definitely don't want to defend the current RNG implementation but I would give this tip to anyone who wants to save keys:
Make sure that you guy up ALL shoulder pieces for sets when they come up on the Golden Vendor in Cyrodiil. Even if you don't plan on using the set - buy it anyway. You never know when something might get buffed or nerfed and you'll be happy that you bought it down the road.
That doesn't help if you immediately need something - but stockpiling all available shoulder pieces can prevent you from being in that situation in the future.4 -
Oakenaxe✭✭✭✭I feel you, I once spent 200+ keys (I kid you not) to get a specific shoulder. The only thing that was keeping me from completing my build and do the things I wanted, took me like 2 weeks to get 1 freaking item. Not stressfull at all lola.k.a. Leo
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