Monster Set Shoulder Piece RNG Ridiculously bad

CrashTest

Yes. I wish these were curated as well. Recently used all my keys to try to get med shoulders for a new build. Got light. Every. Single. Time.

I'm so tired of the grind for everything bc of constant changes ZOS makes that I just gave up.

CGPsaint

Back in the day when we were still running 5-1-1 set ups, I wanted to run Ilambris (when it was still good...) and for the life of me I could NOT get a medium Ilambris shoulder. I finally had to settle for running a heavy shoulder and medium helm, and it was something like 2 full years before I got the medium shoulder, by which time the set was no longer really worth using. RNG in this game is absolutely atrocious.

Necrotech_Master

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Definitely don't want to defend the current RNG implementation but I would give this tip to anyone who wants to save keys:

Make sure that you guy up ALL shoulder pieces for sets when they come up on the Golden Vendor in Cyrodiil. Even if you don't plan on using the set - buy it anyway. You never know when something might get buffed or nerfed and you'll be happy that you bought it down the road.

That doesn't help if you immediately need something - but stockpiling all available shoulder pieces can prevent you from being in that situation in the future.

100% this

ive been using the gold vendor to fill out my missing monster shoulders when they come up, but they really need to expand the options on the gold vendor, 2 options per week and theres many options which have either never come up or come up only like once years ago

like im still waiting on ilambris shoulders to show up on the vendor but i think they only appeared once several years ago

DMuehlhausen

You only need to get each weight. Unless you haven't researched traits. Even if you don't want to be a master crafter research the traits most used on each piece.

jle30303

That's not the issue. The issue is actually getting the each weight, AT ALL. Trait is not even what the OP is talking about.

the point is that you need to get something in the desired weight, from the desired set.

Spending 20, 30, 40 boxes, 5 keys per box, on what should be a 1/6 chance (each box offers the shoulders of 3 weights, from 2 different dungeons, makes 6 possible items, disregarding trait). You should be guaranteed to get the correct item within that many tries. But it is not happening. Look above and see the person trying to get a medium Sentinel of Rkugamz shoulder, only for 12 out of 13 "Darkshade Caverns" boxes to give Engine Guardian stuff instead, and the 13th gave him a Rkugamz but in the wrong weight. So that's a waste of 65 keys.

Traits can stay random, but give us curated loot for the shoulders, just as we have curated loot for the helms - if you do a given dungeon 3 times in veteran, you are guaranteed to get all three weights of that specific dungeon's helm, that's how it already works now. Curated loot for the shoulders would mean that if you wanted a specific one, you only had to open a maximum of 6x 5-key boxes.

Jaimeh

I don't remember what my worst streak was, but the most recent one that comes to mind was 70+ keys for medium Kjalnar.

Ragnarok0130

jle30303 wrote: »

That's not the issue. The issue is actually getting the each weight, AT ALL. Trait is not even what the OP is talking about.

the point is that you need to get something in the desired weight, from the desired set.

Spending 20, 30, 40 boxes, 5 keys per box, on what should be a 1/6 chance (each box offers the shoulders of 3 weights, from 2 different dungeons, makes 6 possible items, disregarding trait). You should be guaranteed to get the correct item within that many tries. But it is not happening. Look above and see the person trying to get a medium Sentinel of Rkugamz shoulder, only for 12 out of 13 "Darkshade Caverns" boxes to give Engine Guardian stuff instead, and the 13th gave him a Rkugamz but in the wrong weight. So that's a waste of 65 keys.

Traits can stay random, but give us curated loot for the shoulders, just as we have curated loot for the helms - if you do a given dungeon 3 times in veteran, you are guaranteed to get all three weights of that specific dungeon's helm, that's how it already works now. Curated loot for the shoulders would mean that if you wanted a specific one, you only had to open a maximum of 6x 5-key boxes.

I've felt this pain myself. I burned 150 keys after the undaunted celebration to not get what I was looking for in any weight. It really is frustrating and some sort of curation for those boxes should occur. I also wish that normal would drop shoulders so we had multiple avenues to farm due to the horrid RNG.

boi_anachronism_

Sounds like your rng is just garbage man... It typically take me about 3 pulls to get what I need. 5 tops.

Destai

Anifaas wrote: »

This situation has left me completely demoralized. I just spent all my keys, 60-ish, trying to get the iceheart shoulders. I got lots and lots of doubles and even triples of things I can't use but not one set of iceheart shoulders in any weight. This is a terrible system and I hate it. In nearly 60 boxes I got one pattern, which I already know and a whole bunch of useless garbage. Not exactly the kind of user experience that inspires me to spend money on this game at all.

I feel for you. I had a similar struggle trying to get the Nazaray shoulders. Took me 8 tries to get it, got the same shoulder 7x in a row. The system needs improvement for sure. At the very least, it should be subject to curated drops like the other loot tables. I'd like to see them drop in dungeons just like the helms. The current implementation just seems like unnecessary gatekeeping.

boi_anachronism_

Destai wrote: »

Anifaas wrote: »

This situation has left me completely demoralized. I just spent all my keys, 60-ish, trying to get the iceheart shoulders. I got lots and lots of doubles and even triples of things I can't use but not one set of iceheart shoulders in any weight. This is a terrible system and I hate it. In nearly 60 boxes I got one pattern, which I already know and a whole bunch of useless garbage. Not exactly the kind of user experience that inspires me to spend money on this game at all.

I feel for you. I had a similar struggle trying to get the Nazaray shoulders. Took me 8 tries to get it, got the same shoulder 7x in a row. The system needs improvement for sure. At the very least, it should be subject to curated drops like the other loot tables. I'd like to see them drop in dungeons just like the helms. The current implementation just seems like unnecessary gatekeeping.

I wouldn't mind if shoulders dropped in normal dungeons and helms in veteran. That could be cool.

Dr_Con

The current system is fine, but I'm sorry you got scamzored into using the 5 key option.

I'd rather get 10 useless helms than 2.

Necrotech_Master

Dr_Con wrote: »

The current system is fine, but I'm sorry you got scamzored into using the 5 key option.

I'd rather get 10 useless helms than 2.

if your going for collections, there is a threshold where it becomes much less efficient to buy the 1 key box instead of the 5 key box

that is much more noticeable on the DLC vendor as there are close to 70 total drops in there now, and if your going for gear collection, 1 in 70 chance of getting what you need is horrible, where the 5 key boxes are always 1 in 6

1 in 6 chance is around 17% chance of getting what you want

1 in 70 chance is around 1.5% chance of getting what you want

for me the only time i even bother to buy any of those useless shoulder boxes is when brand new DLC comes out and i buy enough to have a minimum of 1 shoulder for each monster set unlocked, and i agree that this should be curated as it was noted that its actually significantly harder to get shoulders now than monster helms lol

CrashTest

Jaimeh wrote: »

I don't remember what my worst streak was, but the most recent one that comes to mind was 70+ keys for medium Kjalnar.

I'll see your 70+ keys and raise you over 200+ keys, and I still didn't get the shoulder I was after. I seriously just gave up.

I'm not farming any more pledges to play the soul sucking shoulder RNG game. I just went to do something else.

The grind in this game is just oof.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

The current system is fine, but I'm sorry you got scamzored into using the 5 key option.

I'd rather get 10 useless helms than 2.

if your going for collections, there is a threshold where it becomes much less efficient to buy the 1 key box instead of the 5 key box

that is much more noticeable on the DLC vendor as there are close to 70 total drops in there now, and if your going for gear collection, 1 in 70 chance of getting what you need is horrible, where the 5 key boxes are always 1 in 6

1 in 6 chance is around 17% chance of getting what you want

1 in 70 chance is around 1.5% chance of getting what you want

for me the only time i even bother to buy any of those useless shoulder boxes is when brand new DLC comes out and i buy enough to have a minimum of 1 shoulder for each monster set unlocked, and i agree that this should be curated as it was noted that its actually significantly harder to get shoulders now than monster helms lol

@Necrotech_Master
That threshold is VERY low in terms of number of stickerbook pieces remaining (it does get a little bigger every time they add more drops). You are ignoring the cost of each roll of the dice in your example. Taking your numbers at face value, and assuming 70 drops:

1/6 is a 16.67% chance, but you roll 5 times to get there.

1/70 is about a 1.4% chance, but you only roll once. Its not perfect statistics math because it ignores repeat drops, but assuming you spend 5 keys, your chances are actually more like 7% of getting the item you want, so not as big of a difference as you might think. I sat down and did the math like 2 or 3 DLC dungeons ago, and threshold was only like 3 shoulder pieces, in other words, if you needed more than 3 total of the DLC dungeons, the math favored spending single keys. That of course changes if all 3 pieces are the same dungeon .

So if there is really only one shoulder you care about, yes, 5 key boxes are better. But that threshold is much lower than people think as to where 5 key boxes make sense. If you are just trying to fill your sticker book, you should be buying 1 key boxes until you have only like 3-4 left.

Math also generally favors 5 key boxes in the scenario where you sticker book is completely full other than a new set of dungeons.

Necrotech_Master

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

The current system is fine, but I'm sorry you got scamzored into using the 5 key option.

I'd rather get 10 useless helms than 2.

if your going for collections, there is a threshold where it becomes much less efficient to buy the 1 key box instead of the 5 key box

that is much more noticeable on the DLC vendor as there are close to 70 total drops in there now, and if your going for gear collection, 1 in 70 chance of getting what you need is horrible, where the 5 key boxes are always 1 in 6

1 in 6 chance is around 17% chance of getting what you want

1 in 70 chance is around 1.5% chance of getting what you want

for me the only time i even bother to buy any of those useless shoulder boxes is when brand new DLC comes out and i buy enough to have a minimum of 1 shoulder for each monster set unlocked, and i agree that this should be curated as it was noted that its actually significantly harder to get shoulders now than monster helms lol

@Necrotech_Master
That threshold is VERY low in terms of number of stickerbook pieces remaining (it does get a little bigger every time they add more drops). You are ignoring the cost of each roll of the dice in your example. Taking your numbers at face value, and assuming 70 drops:

1/6 is a 16.67% chance, but you roll 5 times to get there.

1/70 is about a 1.4% chance, but you only roll once. Its not perfect statistics math because it ignores repeat drops, but assuming you spend 5 keys, your chances are actually more like 7% of getting the item you want, so not as big of a difference as you might think. I sat down and did the math like 2 or 3 DLC dungeons ago, and threshold was only like 3 shoulder pieces, in other words, if you needed more than 3 total of the DLC dungeons, the math favored spending single keys. That of course changes if all 3 pieces are the same dungeon .

So if there is really only one shoulder you care about, yes, 5 key boxes are better. But that threshold is much lower than people think as to where 5 key boxes make sense. If you are just trying to fill your sticker book, you should be buying 1 key boxes until you have only like 3-4 left.

Math also generally favors 5 key boxes in the scenario where you sticker book is completely full other than a new set of dungeons.

either way it still sucks because its not curated, so im at the point now i basically only buy any boxes when new dungeons come out to get a minimum of 1 shoulder of each new set, and then will wait until it shows up on the gold vendor to finish it out (since many monster sets are not that good anyway, i think just having the 1 shoulder option to be able to complete the set is enough if i wanted to test it out)

i was mostly looking at the individual chance i had per single box to get an item i was missing, and i would rather take the 1 in 6 chance vs a 1 in 70 chance of getting something i needed, regardless of the cost

if RNG favored you, yes you could spend less on the 1 key box, but i rather take the higher per-box chance of getting something i actually needed to collect, so potentially in the long run im buying less boxes to begin with

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

The current system is fine, but I'm sorry you got scamzored into using the 5 key option.

I'd rather get 10 useless helms than 2.

if your going for collections, there is a threshold where it becomes much less efficient to buy the 1 key box instead of the 5 key box

that is much more noticeable on the DLC vendor as there are close to 70 total drops in there now, and if your going for gear collection, 1 in 70 chance of getting what you need is horrible, where the 5 key boxes are always 1 in 6

1 in 6 chance is around 17% chance of getting what you want

1 in 70 chance is around 1.5% chance of getting what you want

for me the only time i even bother to buy any of those useless shoulder boxes is when brand new DLC comes out and i buy enough to have a minimum of 1 shoulder for each monster set unlocked, and i agree that this should be curated as it was noted that its actually significantly harder to get shoulders now than monster helms lol

@Necrotech_Master
That threshold is VERY low in terms of number of stickerbook pieces remaining (it does get a little bigger every time they add more drops). You are ignoring the cost of each roll of the dice in your example. Taking your numbers at face value, and assuming 70 drops:

1/6 is a 16.67% chance, but you roll 5 times to get there.

1/70 is about a 1.4% chance, but you only roll once. Its not perfect statistics math because it ignores repeat drops, but assuming you spend 5 keys, your chances are actually more like 7% of getting the item you want, so not as big of a difference as you might think. I sat down and did the math like 2 or 3 DLC dungeons ago, and threshold was only like 3 shoulder pieces, in other words, if you needed more than 3 total of the DLC dungeons, the math favored spending single keys. That of course changes if all 3 pieces are the same dungeon .

So if there is really only one shoulder you care about, yes, 5 key boxes are better. But that threshold is much lower than people think as to where 5 key boxes make sense. If you are just trying to fill your sticker book, you should be buying 1 key boxes until you have only like 3-4 left.

Math also generally favors 5 key boxes in the scenario where you sticker book is completely full other than a new set of dungeons.

either way it still sucks because its not curated, so im at the point now i basically only buy any boxes when new dungeons come out to get a minimum of 1 shoulder of each new set, and then will wait until it shows up on the gold vendor to finish it out (since many monster sets are not that good anyway, i think just having the 1 shoulder option to be able to complete the set is enough if i wanted to test it out)

i was mostly looking at the individual chance i had per single box to get an item i was missing, and i would rather take the 1 in 6 chance vs a 1 in 70 chance of getting something i needed, regardless of the cost

if RNG favored you, yes you could spend less on the 1 key box, but i rather take the higher per-box chance of getting something i actually needed to collect, so potentially in the long run im buying less boxes to begin with

100% agree with that. 5 key boxes should absolutely be curated. I am down to the point where the only shoulders I need are a handful from the last 2 dungeon packs, and since I am not using the shoulders, I just don't care. I would rather hoard keys for other things and see if they show up in the golden vendor. LOL.

I was just simply pointing out that if you are purely playing the percentages, 1 key boxes are statistically better than you might think, especially if you are just trying to indiscriminately fill your sticker book.