criminal QoL ideas

Sparxlost · May 2022

Imagine if they totally beefed up the justice system in eso and as well as having outlaws refuge like towns.
one big one for each faction. so three major thief cities basically im thinking..

Then they could make it so that whenever you entered a regular town if your bounty was high enough then players would be able to invite you into a duel to claim a portion of the bounty you were carrying. (the amount players would be able to make from killing criminals is capped at 10k to prevent players from getting their 3mil bounty back from whatever player killed them) In addition to this they could open up thieving quests at this point which would encourage you to keep thieving regular towns.
Thief towns would basically be regular towns like the size of Skywatch or others like that but hidden with a delve-type entrance. These kinds of "havens" there could be quests, shops, and crafting areas etc. and would be host to tons of lovely characters.

Stealing would be difficult and totally not worth it unless for a quest within the town as people who live there are aware of themselves and others. These places would also be guarded to protect residents and merchants from murderers and thieves-in-action, but there would be no bounty to gain from escaping these actions. Towns are meant to be safe places for criminal players who make a habit out of being bad and dont want to pay what they owe to those pesky rich guards, where they can sell items and not have to worry about guards.

player home. player gets to purchase a home for cheap in thieves havens.
stash. new item purchaseable only from havens can be placed in home and functions as a bank.

New quests can be accepted at havens after reaching and maintaining a bounty of 5k gold.
robbing
framing guards from regular towns (difficult to do and pays well.)
more probably..
if for whatever reason you lose your bounty during a quest you will still be able to complete the quest.

achievements for bringing justice to other players and claiming bounties as well as defending your own..

possible new content???
this will be a puzzle solving and parkour raid basically where players will have to learn and solve dynamic puzzle combinations or navigate through terrifying traps..
like the den of thieves' maze scene from the D&D movie..
these can either just be that or have bosses in the mix as well

Change to clemency option.
gaurds wont even bother you if it is in the white unless you talk to them, but still will if it is in the red (guards only pursue on sight for recent crimes)
clemency is no longer tied only to thieves guild and unlocks after doing main faction or dlc story quests to make things easier..
i hoften feel like ive done enough for this zone and i see that clemency option i cant use and i just dont feel appreciated..

crouching profile buff...
reduces time it takes to re-enter hidden state after breaking line of sight
so if your detectable radius is small then with the right passives as soon as you get out of the guards' detect radius you could be stealthed again..
id say this is good for master thieves and puts more classes on par with nightblade when thieving is considered..

just some ideas

Ragnarok0130 · May 2022

Did you play the Thievesguild DLC? Sounds like you enjoy their heists. I personally don’t want any more dueling in cities than we already have. In fact I wish the guards went after people currently dueling in cities as it disturbs the peace.

TwinLamps · May 2022

Murder is way too lightly treated by guards. Bounty for murder should be 10x higher and not expire for at least a week or so.

Kisakee · May 2022

TwinLamps wrote: »

Murder is way too lightly treated by guards. Bounty for murder should be 10x higher and not expire for at least a week or so.

Tornaad · May 2022

And killing chickens is treated way to harshly in Skyrim.

bmnoble · May 2022

Maybe its just me but isn't the sign of a good thief/criminal not getting noticed thus never getting a bounty?

The only time I went out of my way to get a high bounty was for achievements, other than that the only time I get one is when I screw up, even then its rarely more than 1000 gold at its highest before I let the passives take care of it without paying the bounty.

As for the duels for part of the bounty not opposed so long as its something both sides consent too, not "hey that guy has a bounty, get em" That and I don't think dueling in cities while having a bounty will get you anywhere since the guards would go after the player with a bounty in the middle of your duel.

I don't like the idea of achievements for bringing players to justice, when many thieves are just going to decline the duel, can just imagine someone of the toxic whispers when you refuse to go along with it, you can say that will never happen, it already does had a guy follow me around while I was doing a Dark brotherhood murder spree for 15 minutes, whispering murderer, duel me etc... I finally got sick of it dueled him let him kill me, then just as he was leaving I carried on with my murder spree and he came back, I switched to offline mode and lost him when I went to turn in the quest.

I can't speak for all of them but when I am thieving I am in gear for that purpose and won't stand a chance against an actual player in that set up. You could say use the armory and switch, I ain't paying for the assistant and am not going out of my way to visit a house to switch every time some random person decides they want to be a vigilante.

Your idea about the extra missions reminds me of the heists from thieves guild DLC.

Maybe instead of a city its time for a chapter or DLC to add a new thieves guild/dark brotherhood base in one of the new zones, either with returning characters from the existing DLC or brand new ones, with new quests/heists etc..

katanagirl1 · May 2022

Question for OP:

Is this something you would like or is it intended only for others? Your phrasing implies the latter.

Sparxlost · May 2022

bmnoble wrote: »

Maybe its just me but isn't the sign of a good thief/criminal not getting noticed thus never getting a bounty?

The only time I went out of my way to get a high bounty was for achievements, other than that the only time I get one is when I screw up, even then its rarely more than 1000 gold at its highest before I let the passives take care of it without paying the bounty.

As for the duels for part of the bounty not opposed so long as its something both sides consent too, not "hey that guy has a bounty, get em" That and I don't think dueling in cities while having a bounty will get you anywhere since the guards would go after the player with a bounty in the middle of your duel.

I don't like the idea of achievements for bringing players to justice, when many thieves are just going to decline the duel, can just imagine someone of the toxic whispers when you refuse to go along with it, you can say that will never happen, it already does had a guy follow me around while I was doing a Dark brotherhood murder spree for 15 minutes, whispering murderer, duel me etc... I finally got sick of it dueled him let him kill me, then just as he was leaving I carried on with my murder spree and he came back, I switched to offline mode and lost him when I went to turn in the quest.

I can't speak for all of them but when I am thieving I am in gear for that purpose and won't stand a chance against an actual player in that set up. You could say use the armory and switch, I ain't paying for the assistant and am not going out of my way to visit a house to switch every time some random person decides they want to be a vigilante.

Your idea about the extra missions reminds me of the heists from thieves guild DLC.

Maybe instead of a city its time for a chapter or DLC to add a new thieves guild/dark brotherhood base in one of the new zones, either with returning characters from the existing DLC or brand new ones, with new quests/heists etc..

yes i wanted to make it seem like the higher ups from the Havens would be looking to hire seasoned criminals so at a high enough bounty you would get an invitation from somewhere telling you to visit the one in your faction. where you would then learn how much you could make from thieving potentially.

there is the option to turn off messages from randoms you just turn off chat hud and change chat bubble display to friends only. then whenever you want to look for conversation just go to menu and click the chat option to see chats that way..

yes it is just regular dueling with consent from both sides but you can reduce someones bounty and get paid for it if it is high enough..
if people really want the achievement they will just get it with their friends or pay someone the exact amount they would lose in the process it isnt a huge deal.

Sparxlost · May 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Question for OP:

Is this something you would like or is it intended only for others? Your phrasing implies the latter.

both?? xD

Sparxlost · May 2022

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Did you play the Thievesguild DLC? Sounds like you enjoy their heists. I personally don’t want any more dueling in cities than we already have. In fact I wish the guards went after people currently dueling in cities as it disturbs the peace.

the plan here is to bring criminals away from cities for the most part..
duels happened in places all the time and barely anyone whined about the disturbed peace as they just wanted some entertainment
duels happen with consent and could be seen as friendly competition rather than judicial execution...

Tandor · May 2022

PvP will not be added to the Justice System, ZOS have made that very clear. They do not intend to mix PvE and PvP in the same areas again. I very much hope they stick to that, and believe that they will.

Amottica · May 2022

Sparxlost wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Maybe its just me but isn't the sign of a good thief/criminal not getting noticed thus never getting a bounty?

The only time I went out of my way to get a high bounty was for achievements, other than that the only time I get one is when I screw up, even then its rarely more than 1000 gold at its highest before I let the passives take care of it without paying the bounty.

As for the duels for part of the bounty not opposed so long as its something both sides consent too, not "hey that guy has a bounty, get em" That and I don't think dueling in cities while having a bounty will get you anywhere since the guards would go after the player with a bounty in the middle of your duel.

I don't like the idea of achievements for bringing players to justice, when many thieves are just going to decline the duel, can just imagine someone of the toxic whispers when you refuse to go along with it, you can say that will never happen, it already does had a guy follow me around while I was doing a Dark brotherhood murder spree for 15 minutes, whispering murderer, duel me etc... I finally got sick of it dueled him let him kill me, then just as he was leaving I carried on with my murder spree and he came back, I switched to offline mode and lost him when I went to turn in the quest.

I can't speak for all of them but when I am thieving I am in gear for that purpose and won't stand a chance against an actual player in that set up. You could say use the armory and switch, I ain't paying for the assistant and am not going out of my way to visit a house to switch every time some random person decides they want to be a vigilante.

Your idea about the extra missions reminds me of the heists from thieves guild DLC.

Maybe instead of a city its time for a chapter or DLC to add a new thieves guild/dark brotherhood base in one of the new zones, either with returning characters from the existing DLC or brand new ones, with new quests/heists etc..

yes i wanted to make it seem like the higher ups from the Havens would be looking to hire seasoned criminals so at a high enough bounty you would get an invitation from somewhere telling you to visit the one in your faction. where you would then learn how much you could make from thieving potentially.

there is the option to turn off messages from randoms you just turn off chat hud and change chat bubble display to friends only. then whenever you want to look for conversation just go to menu and click the chat option to see chats that way..

yes it is just regular dueling with consent from both sides but you can reduce someones bounty and get paid for it if it is high enough..
if people really want the achievement they will just get it with their friends or pay someone the exact amount they would lose in the process it isnt a huge deal.

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

Also, the idea of being able to get paid for dueling someone with a large bounty is very much open to exploitation.

Mr_Stach · May 2022

I would like to report Murders/Illegal Activity.

I mean that would suck to happen to me, but I would love to see people trying to hide from players as well

Sparxlost · May 2022

Amottica wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Maybe its just me but isn't the sign of a good thief/criminal not getting noticed thus never getting a bounty?

The only time I went out of my way to get a high bounty was for achievements, other than that the only time I get one is when I screw up, even then its rarely more than 1000 gold at its highest before I let the passives take care of it without paying the bounty.

As for the duels for part of the bounty not opposed so long as its something both sides consent too, not "hey that guy has a bounty, get em" That and I don't think dueling in cities while having a bounty will get you anywhere since the guards would go after the player with a bounty in the middle of your duel.

I don't like the idea of achievements for bringing players to justice, when many thieves are just going to decline the duel, can just imagine someone of the toxic whispers when you refuse to go along with it, you can say that will never happen, it already does had a guy follow me around while I was doing a Dark brotherhood murder spree for 15 minutes, whispering murderer, duel me etc... I finally got sick of it dueled him let him kill me, then just as he was leaving I carried on with my murder spree and he came back, I switched to offline mode and lost him when I went to turn in the quest.

I can't speak for all of them but when I am thieving I am in gear for that purpose and won't stand a chance against an actual player in that set up. You could say use the armory and switch, I ain't paying for the assistant and am not going out of my way to visit a house to switch every time some random person decides they want to be a vigilante.

Your idea about the extra missions reminds me of the heists from thieves guild DLC.

Maybe instead of a city its time for a chapter or DLC to add a new thieves guild/dark brotherhood base in one of the new zones, either with returning characters from the existing DLC or brand new ones, with new quests/heists etc..

yes i wanted to make it seem like the higher ups from the Havens would be looking to hire seasoned criminals so at a high enough bounty you would get an invitation from somewhere telling you to visit the one in your faction. where you would then learn how much you could make from thieving potentially.

there is the option to turn off messages from randoms you just turn off chat hud and change chat bubble display to friends only. then whenever you want to look for conversation just go to menu and click the chat option to see chats that way..

yes it is just regular dueling with consent from both sides but you can reduce someones bounty and get paid for it if it is high enough..
if people really want the achievement they will just get it with their friends or pay someone the exact amount they would lose in the process it isnt a huge deal.

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

Also, the idea of being able to get paid for dueling someone with a large bounty is very much open to exploitation.

a seasoned criminal may very well have a large bounty and the fact that they live live with that bounty on their head contributes to their reputation.. some jobs are pretty much impossible to do and things could always go wrong if you arent lucky.... if you have a high bounty then you probably arent getting much work as an upstanding citizen and thus may be available for other types of jobs.

their isnt anything to exploit.. if a gaurd kills you and you dont have any gold on you then your bounty doesnt lower and the guard doesnt get your gold... same thing for dueling... think of it as a situation where someone catches you and tells you to face them to defend your honor you would either fight them or flee it is completely optional..
if you wanted to give away your gold you could literally just trade it away..

Kisakee · May 2022

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

Amottica · May 2022

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

You have that bounty out of choice. A system that forces players to get caught in order to participate is a poorly designed system.

Even then your example shows that it is easy to push which means two players can conspire to take advantage of the design in the suggestion which would be an exploit.

Regardless, Zednimax has made it clear they ahve no plays to have PvP in the PvE zones.

Kisakee · May 2022

Amottica wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

You have that bounty out of choice. A system that forces players to get caught in order to participate is a poorly designed system.

Even then your example shows that it is easy to push which means two players can conspire to take advantage of the design in the suggestion which would be an exploit.

Regardless, Zednimax has made it clear they ahve no plays to have PvP in the PvE zones.

I agree that it's way too easy to manipulate. The whole bounty system isn't even much of a problem once you figured it out and everyone can do what i do:

I'd love some more criminal content but nothing that can be exploited to force people into PvP.

Amottica · May 2022

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

You have that bounty out of choice. A system that forces players to get caught in order to participate is a poorly designed system.

Even then your example shows that it is easy to push which means two players can conspire to take advantage of the design in the suggestion which would be an exploit.

Regardless, Zednimax has made it clear they ahve no plays to have PvP in the PvE zones.

I agree that it's way too easy to manipulate. The whole bounty system isn't even much of a problem once you figured it out and everyone can do what i do:

I'd love some more criminal content but nothing that can be exploited to force people into PvP.

I agree. I have been surprised that something has not been added to some of the DLCs. Something that would be related to the DLC ofc. We have had a story that included members of the Dark Brotherhood though that story was not a Dark Brotherhood in itself. It shows that what I am thinking, maybe a side quest in the zone, could be included. A repeating daily that required us to use our thieving skills to accomplish would be nice.

Tandor · May 2022

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

You have that bounty out of choice. A system that forces players to get caught in order to participate is a poorly designed system.

Even then your example shows that it is easy to push which means two players can conspire to take advantage of the design in the suggestion which would be an exploit.

Regardless, Zednimax has made it clear they ahve no plays to have PvP in the PvE zones.

<snip> I'd love some more criminal content but nothing that can be exploited to force people into PvP. <snip>

Forcing people into PvP is only half of the possible exploitation, the other half being two players getting together and taking turns to play criminal and enforcer with fixed duels etc.

Sparxlost · May 2022

[/quote]

Tandor wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

You have that bounty out of choice. A system that forces players to get caught in order to participate is a poorly designed system.

Even then your example shows that it is easy to push which means two players can conspire to take advantage of the design in the suggestion which would be an exploit.

Regardless, Zednimax has made it clear they ahve no plays to have PvP in the PvE zones.

<snip> I'd love some more criminal content but nothing that can be exploited to force people into PvP. <snip>

Forcing people into PvP is only half of the possible exploitation, the other half being two players getting together and taking turns to play criminal and enforcer with fixed duels etc.

there is no way to exploit even with fixed duels as there is no gold generation for the enforcer....
the gold that normally would have been thrown into the sink when a guard kills a criminal would go to the person who won the duel...
if they werent carrying any of the bounty on them, the winner doesnt get paid...
and its not like you can see their bounty anyway so i would suggest not dueling to get paid...
i imagine if you saw someone committing a crime you would go over and confront them so that they may learn some humility.. there really is no incentive other than the off chance you bested a hardened criminal and got paid for it..

Amottica · May 2022

Sparxlost wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

You have that bounty out of choice. A system that forces players to get caught in order to participate is a poorly designed system.

Even then your example shows that it is easy to push which means two players can conspire to take advantage of the design in the suggestion which would be an exploit.

Regardless, Zednimax has made it clear they ahve no plays to have PvP in the PvE zones.

<snip> I'd love some more criminal content but nothing that can be exploited to force people into PvP. <snip>

Forcing people into PvP is only half of the possible exploitation, the other half being two players getting together and taking turns to play criminal and enforcer with fixed duels etc.

there is no way to exploit even with fixed duels as there is no gold generation for the enforcer....
the gold that normally would have been thrown into the sink when a guard kills a criminal would go to the person who won the duel...
if they werent carrying any of the bounty on them, the winner doesnt get paid...
and its not like you can see their bounty anyway so i would suggest not dueling to get paid...
i imagine if you saw someone committing a crime you would go over and confront them so that they may learn some humility.. there really is no incentive other than the off chance you bested a hardened criminal and got paid for it..
[/quote]

1. It is not made clear what the source of the reward is when someone duels another player who has a bounty. That is why we keep suggesting this can be exploited.

2. Since people who carry large bounties are less likely to be carrying gold it seems pointless to duel someone who has a bounty with the idea one would get a reward if it requires that player to have gold in their bag. That alone makes this less interesting.

3. and Zenimax has demonstrated they are not interested in having PvP in the PvE zones.

Sparxlost · May 2022

Amottica wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

A seasoned criminal would not have a large bounty. Only those that lack the skill and often get caught get the bounty.

So not correct. I have a bounty of over 300 millions on five toons combined and i worked hard to get this far. It's not about lacking the skill, i just don't care. In fact i'm trying to push it. There's no reason for me to not have that bounty as it doesn't affect me much. That's not making me a noob but a highly trained professional.

You have that bounty out of choice. A system that forces players to get caught in order to participate is a poorly designed system.

Even then your example shows that it is easy to push which means two players can conspire to take advantage of the design in the suggestion which would be an exploit.

Regardless, Zednimax has made it clear they ahve no plays to have PvP in the PvE zones.

<snip> I'd love some more criminal content but nothing that can be exploited to force people into PvP. <snip>

Forcing people into PvP is only half of the possible exploitation, the other half being two players getting together and taking turns to play criminal and enforcer with fixed duels etc.

there is no way to exploit even with fixed duels as there is no gold generation for the enforcer....
the gold that normally would have been thrown into the sink when a guard kills a criminal would go to the person who won the duel...
if they werent carrying any of the bounty on them, the winner doesnt get paid...
and its not like you can see their bounty anyway so i would suggest not dueling to get paid...
i imagine if you saw someone committing a crime you would go over and confront them so that they may learn some humility.. there really is no incentive other than the off chance you bested a hardened criminal and got paid for it..

1. It is not made clear what the source of the reward is when someone duels another player who has a bounty. That is why we keep suggesting this can be exploited.

2. Since people who carry large bounties are less likely to be carrying gold it seems pointless to duel someone who has a bounty with the idea one would get a reward if it requires that player to have gold in their bag. That alone makes this less interesting.

3. and Zenimax has demonstrated they are not interested in having PvP in the PvE zones. [/quote]

Listen.. you can stop repeating yourself

1. "players would be able to invite you into a duel to claim a portion of the bounty you were carrying." feel free to read op again..

2. it isnt supposed to make things interesting it is just an additional way for you to pay off your bounty..

3. this isnt "having pvp in pve zones" more that dueling already it just adds an extra mechanic to it. Get rid of dueling first then you could argue this point as it just enhances the quality of a pre-existing thing in the game..