The hands down, undeniably absolute best solution to fake tanking

kargen27 · May 2022

Better solution would be to let players queue for a non standard group. When you join queue you get the option of standard group or a group that doesn't take role into account. Groups wanting the traditional group would get filled first if possible. So if a group was waiting on a tank the first tank in queue no matter what they selected would go to that group. If no tank is available that group waits while players who do not care get grouped together. You might end up with 4 DPS, 3 healers and one DPS or any other combination.
Players could then join queue as their actual role and know they are going to get into a group quick. Those wanting one tank and one healer might have to wait longer but they know they are getting actual healers and tanks.

Mr_Stach · May 2022

Directions Unclear, kicked low CP DPS Player...... Oh dear. It's a small child.

Kusto · May 2022

If fake tanks bother you then do vets instead norms. I've played this game for years and I remember only seeing 1 or 2 fake tanks. There has been some inexperienced ones but that can only be a problem when doing dlc hard modes.

meekmiko · May 2022

The hands down, undeniably absolute best solution to fake tanking:

Form your own group
Queue
Profit

spartaxoxo · May 2022

Other games have solutions for this issue, and there's absolutely no reason that this game shouldn't either. People who won't slot a taunt but queue up tank are actively sabotaging the gameplay of others, and ZOS should be taking action. In the meantime, voting to kick the fake is a superior option. Any fake tanks that get upset about being kicked should reevaluate their decision to actively and purposefully harm the gameplay experience of others.

spartaxoxo · May 2022

CBixby wrote: »

If there wasn’t so many fake dps there wouldn’t be so many fake tanks. Everyone mad at fake tanks is legit exposing themselves

I am not a fake dps and fake tank often (WITH A TAUNT), fakes of any role are a problem. Two wrongs don't make a right. There is no excuse for not slotting a taunt if you queue tank, and not slotting a heal if you queue healer. It's okay to not be fully spec'ed into any particular role, but you should be building to do the bare minimum of your role instead of forcing someone else to carry you.

Molydeus · May 2022

I don't do normals anymore due to fake tanks. If they ever became common in vet dungeons I would probably just quit the game.

ForzaRammer · May 2022

This is no different from what some people on forum expect real tank to do when they get grouped with fake dd

buttaface · May 2022

tauriel01 wrote: »

It's only a problem because you THINK it's a problem.

Wrong. The fact, and not opinion, that this issue is a very widely acknowledged problem in the game, maybe even in the top ten, wherever the game is discussed, here on the official forum or elsewhere, clearly shows it's not me just "thinking" it's a problem.

No idea what you are going on about in the rest of the reply. I never posted anything in support of some voting or reputation system, so please don't try to put words in my mouth in the future.

honglatongla · May 2022

This clearly isn't a problem.

ccfeeling · May 2022

Tanking is easy if they create the build correctly .

Got nothing to say to those fake tanks , they are just too selfish .

I will try my best to carry the real tank instead of kick him out , but you know , some bosses / mechanics are not joking , I can do nothing when the tank is always sleeping on the ground

MakoRuu · May 2022

tauriel01 wrote: »

If you find yourself in a group with a fake tank and you do not like how the group is going, there is ALREADY a feature in the game that will absolutely solve this problem for you. Just hit P to bring up the group window. hit X, then hit E. Your problem is immediately solved. That fake tank won't be harshing your mellow anymore. Yes, you might have waited several minutes to get that group. Yes you might have to wait even longer to do it again. Life is full of choices. you can choose to stay and live with the fake tank. You can choose to leave and live with lost time. What you CAN'T do is control others' behavior. I'm not entirely sure why a segment of the forum population keeps trying to come up with ways to do so. Rather than clutter the interwebs with "solutions" to the "problem" of fake tanks, just opt out when one appears.

I've literally kicked out a fake tank before in a group, and waited SEVERAL MINUTES for another to show up, and the new one was fake, too.

That is why this is such a huge problem that people don't seem to be taking seriously.

Darkstorne · May 2022

So literally "don't like how broken the game system is? Easily solved by not playing the game!"

I don't mind fake tanks too much in normal base game dungeons. But if a fake tank queues for a vet or a DLC dungeon I will always vote to kick during the last boss fight, just to return the favour and give them a taste of their own medicine by wasting as much of their time as possible. Doesn't always go through, but it's the best feeling when it does.

Fake tanks don't speed up dungeon runs in normal mode dungeons. A DPS-focused tank build who can pull trash into one nice cuddle puddle and keep aggro on a boss is the fastest method. Fake tanks aren't helpful players, and those fake tanks who say otherwise are just trying to find a way to internally justify why them cutting the queue in front of the majority of DDs means they are actually nice people doing the group a solid, rather than facing the reality about themselves that everyone else in the group already knows.

ResidentContrarian · May 2022

Bat wrote: »

If you queue as a fake tank with random people = problem, because in doing so you have either overestimated your own proficiency (not too uncommon from what I've seen with this sort of behaviour), or, you have unreasonable expectations of the entirely random people you get grouped with. Some players don't have that proficiency that they will pull through a dungeon without a tank properly turning and facing a boss away from the group. Some players aren't aware that if the "tank" dies, and they have been chosen as targets instead, they should kite and allow other members to res the "tank", so they go for the tank res and die themselves, which dominoes to an entire wipe; some people aren't aware that if someone is kiting the boss while the "tank" is dead, they should quickly go to the "tank" and res them; bosses sometimes need to be interrupted - mechanic which is often handled by the tank themselves - and it causes a wipe if tank lies dead like a fish out of water; a "tank" who can't survive what a tank would survive easily but instead runs around the entire board pulling the boss out of everyone else's AOEs and DOTs will cause the run to take multitudes longer than if they just queued for their role in the first place*; these are just a few such things off the top of my head that would contradict your sentiments about "dps race design" and "tanks are obsolete and group couldn't clear anyway if they wipe because fake tank dies" and "it's more effective if the group gets a fake tank anyway".

The problem, of course, is much more about fake tanks in *veteran* content - no one actually ever argues that fake tanks in normal basegame dungeons are problematic because those dungeon instances are made to be possible to clear with trash gear at the very lowest of character levels.

I'm going to go with "absolute nonsense", because I sincerely don't think this is hard to understand.

*Especially with the dungeon content released over the last four-five years, however I've queued to enough randoms to have seen many runs even in basegame dungeons where what could have been a smooth run has been turned into an absolute manure storefront because of a fake tank or fake healer.

Let's stop making excuses for cheating other players who actually queue their roles, out of their positions in the queue, let's stop making excuses for this behaviour of treating other players as crap just because you can't be bothered to wait a couple more minutes for your real role queue to pop. It's obnoxious behaviour.

All opinion and the individual player's problems, not true in all cases, therefore false and a failed counterargument. You're free to believe what you want, but doesn't change reality. Still doesn't counter the claim that a bad tank is not any better than a fake tank. Dismissing something as nonsense to push your opinion doesn't change reality.

And veteran content is also a DPS race, it's even proven by the fact that a mythic is being introduced by the dev team to increase DPS to make it more accessible, maybe you don't understand that?

Also bolded just means players that cannot do those things don't understand the game at all, and need to start understanding the game better.

Not an elitist statement, it's reality.

If you don't understand how block, roll, and interrupt work, then it's a problem because those are CORE game mechanics for damage reduction. If you never need to do that, then the game needs a difficulty increase because it is, in fact, a DPS race.

ZOS is also to blame for making overland a joke that requires little use of core mechanics outside of certain world bosses. Again, DPS race because in cases where defense is never needed, only DPS matters.

karthrag_inak · May 2022

Here's a better one. Learn how to tank yourself. Extra tank gear, and if fake tank arrives, be the tank you deserve, yes?

LalMirchi · May 2022

I love tanking but after many disappointing PUG runs I only tank in premade groups. I however do que for random dungeons
as DPS (thanks to the armory) to get my 10 transmutation crystals.

Bat · May 2022

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

All opinion

So is yours.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

and the individual player's problems, not true in all cases

So you concede it's true in some cases.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

therefore false

But you just conceded it's true in some cases. It's not either/or, it's both, a fact I already acknowledged and therefore it is a fact that it is a problem under specific criteria, since it is known to cause wipes and disbanding of groups for a myriad of reasons under those specific criteria.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

and a failed counterargument.

No one needs to counter your opinions with valid arguments, but the fact you misconstrue valid counterarguments as "opinion" is a bit peculiar.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

You're free to believe what you want, but doesn't change reality. Still doesn't counter the claim that a bad tank is not any better than a fake tank.

That's also your opinion, based on what you personally believe constitutes for a bad tank.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

Dismissing something as nonsense to push your opinion doesn't change reality.

I'm dismissing it as nonsense because I don't think it's difficult to understand the difference between what constitutes for a fake tank problem, and what doesn't constitutes for a fake tank problem. You argue best case scenarios, which are of course things that happen, albeit from my and others' collected experiences, few and far in between cases.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

And veteran content is also a DPS race, it's even proven by the fact that a mythic is being introduced by the dev team to increase DPS to make it more accessible, maybe you don't understand that?

Veteran content is group content to much more an extent than normal content, doesn't mean it can't be done in a tight knit group but that's also not what people argue against or talk about as being a problem. Most veteran content can be cleared with average DPS; most of it is not a DPS race. The reason they added a mythic to increase DPS is the same reason they've done that with a lot of other mythics recently, I would assume; because group content requires a lot more DPS in more contemporary designs than what was previously the case. Compare hardmode final bosses of basegame dungeons with hardmode final bosses of the two most recent DLC dungeons. You don't want low DPS for those because that would make the fights go on for hours on end. Adding mythics that increase damage, if used correctly or even by just pure baseline (such as was the case with for example Malacath's Band of Brutality too before it was nerfed) just means that content will be a bit easier to clear, doesn't mean it won't be possible to clear with knowing mechanics, but it also doesn't mean that it will be "just a DPS race" and that queuing as a fake tank will lead to any good outcomes from using it.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

players that cannot do those things don't understand the game at all, and need to start understanding the game better.

Not an elitist statement, it's reality.

Just claiming "fact" and "reality" over and over doesn't necessarily make it so, you also have to substantiate your claims in order to make them valid, a requirement that insofar your posts have yet to meet.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If you don't understand how block, roll, and interrupt work, then it's a problem because those are CORE game mechanics for damage reduction.

Most group content is clearly designed to have enemies doing their heavy attacks on a tank who is built to mitigate that damage properly.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

If you never need to do that, then the game needs a difficulty increase because it is, in fact, a DPS race

And it's not the case that that's never needed in group content, so that's a very weird argument to even be making.

ResidentContrarian wrote: »

ZOS is also to blame for making overland a joke that requires little use of core mechanics outside of certain world bosses. Again, DPS race because in cases where defense is never needed, only DPS matters.

I wouldn't argue against that other than to point out that this quote in no way substantiates nor validates your position on fake tanking. In cases where defense is not needed, DPS is needed? Sure, ok.

Mr_Stach · May 2022

There is no System or Change to Pug Dungeons that will Fix The "Fake X" issue. These people will Always do whatever they need to finish fast.

It's the same as people will always do whatever is the Strongest thing, that's why in PvP 9 out of 10 mDKs are built exactly the same.

A bunch of people don't care about other's experiences, they want to be the most efficient with their time, so there's no fix because you cannot Balance Players because they will adjust to whatever benefits them the most.

svendf · May 2022

ZOS can´t be blamed for how people behave in the game - fake roles and all. What we as paying custs can ask them, is take actions so no one is able to do these kins of things.

It´s in the hands of the devs to take actions against negative elements - and most do.

lets see, what they come up with.

Kiyonami · May 2022

In theory, adding two separate classes, Healer and Tank, whose roles are initially defined at character creation, and queued up to only bind those classes to roles, could completely solve the problem. But it would be relevant at the release of the game... Now adding specific classes will break the current situation in ESO.

Mr_Stach · May 2022

Kiyonami wrote: »

In theory, adding two separate classes, Healer and Tank, whose roles are initially defined at character creation, and queued up to only bind those classes to roles, could completely solve the problem. But it would be relevant at the release of the game... Now adding specific classes will break the current situation in ESO.

Kinda defeats the whole All Classes, All Roles, play how you like shtick that ESO has.

Kiyonami · May 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Kinda defeats the whole All Classes, All Roles, play how you like shtick that ESO has.

I'm just thinking out loud here. Nothing more. In any case, no one will completely redo the class system after 8 years.

ZOS_Icy · May 2022

Greetings,

We appreciate all the discussions on Fake Tanking but to consolidate all feedback into one place, we are going to close this thread down. You may continue the discussion here.

Thank you for your understanding.