What?

Well, in other MMOs you can pay for max level boost, is it better than manually leveling your character/companion? (btw sorry for giving ZOS ideas )
Leveling new characters in ESO is fairly quick anyway, brp/skyreach in training gear and you get to 50 in few hours.

Jeez we're at the point not only people does not want to grind anymore, they do not even want to lose time leveling up a toon.

I suppose "why do play it at all? just give us rewards!" will be the next logical tought... amazing

DagenHawk wrote: »

You are just not going to stop that. Levels are arbitrary and they mean nothing...you might as well ask the player to Bunny hop her character for two hours to reach "max Level"

Levels were borrowed from D&D and like most things in a Table top RPG it's just awkward. and doesn't quiet fit.

Eh. Levels (whether character levels, skill levels, etc), are a useful way to quantify progression. Don't find them awkward at all. /shrug

(But then, I've been playing games with levels for 30+ years. Including, yes, tabletop RPGs of many flavors. They fit just fine.


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...the whole "bunny hop for two hours to reach max level" thing does remind me of people jumping up & down stairs in Morrowind & Oblivion to level up their Athletics, though.

DagenHawk wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

What?

Okay...now stay with me on this.

Imagine a world where you could create your character and/or adopt a Companion and not waste time leveling them.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Imagine, if you will, an MMO that you can play without the tedium of actually having to play.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

What?

Okay...now stay with me on this.

Imagine a world where you could create your character and/or adopt a Companion and not waste time leveling them.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Imagine, if you will, an MMO that you can play without the tedium of actually having to play.

That's the PTS for me, unless I have something very specific I want to test.

I log on, make a template character, spend an hour playing around with every piece of gear under the sun, another hour decorating a house I'll never buy with every furnishing I can, and then get bored because nothing I do will last beyond the next reset.

Character experience levels are a tried and true method for providing a sense of progress and a way to measure it. Also, they are the easiest one to implement. So I understand why ESO and most other MMO's use them.

Still, OP is at least somewhat right. With levels and especially the game items tied to them there comes the sense of being compelled to get to the maximum item level as soon as possible. Otherwise, one doesn't get the full benefits of gear. Besides, if one has multiple characters at multiple levels, it's very inconvenient to swap found overland sets etc. between them since the lowel level character can't use what the high level character has found and the latter has no use for low level gear. Thus, the levels are somewhat of a barrier to full enjoyment of the game.

Fortunately there is a solution to this dilemma, and it has been succesfully implemented in at least one RPG before. I mean the system where skills, and not levels, are in the centre of the system. In the 1990's RPG Darklands there are no experience levels, only attributes and skills. Attributes are semi-fixed at the start (you can alter them only by occasional random events), but skills grow by using them. All skills are theoretically available to all characters, but if one hasn't put points into them in the character creation, they are next to useless. All gear qualities are usable right from the start, and the skills govern how useful the gear is (and in case of armor, strength determines which armor is most sensible).

How could this kind of system be implemented in ESO? The attribute points could be all distributed at the character creation - with the option of respeccing retained, of course. Also, gear attribute enchantments could be buffed as a tool for differentiating characters. Class could determine which skills get initial boost (and maybe which skill ultimates would available), and instead of overall experience points skill experience points would be the most important. Current weapon, crafting, PvP, world and guild skills would be "wild" in the sense that no class would govern them. General exp points could be retained for exploration and quest rewards so that they would count towards class skills or all skills.

All active skills in the game could be available to all characters from the start. This would make the system a hybrid of previous TES titles and Darklands. Skill points would be retained, as would be morphs and passive skills. Skill points would be awarded by class skill advancements and otherwise by the same methods as now. Seeing how in this proposed system all basic skills would be usable to everyone, skill points would mainly be used for ultimates, morphs and passives. This would open a way for a multitude of very creative builds and truly viable hybridization, and thus would be a boon for anyone liking to tinker with builds.

Gear would still come in different qualities, both material-wise and improvement-wise, but it would all be usable from the start. Most gear drops would be lowest qualities, but bosses would drop better things and high-quality things could be crafted by a skilled character. In this way no gear would become wholly obsolete but could be used by different characters.

And champion points? Skill "over-levels" could replace them, with a new selection of passives becoming available when one would reach the maximum skill level in some skill. Those passives would be gradual in the same way the CP's are now and so encourage endgame play.

I think this kind of system, of which only a rough outline could be given here, would be the most flexible and enjoyable. But since it would require a wide redesign of the game system, I don't expect ever to see it in ESO. But one can always hope. Or maybe I should design my own game...

Amottica wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

Imagine a world where you could create your character and/or adopt a Companion and not waste time leveling them.

Wouldn't that be nice?

No. Leveling/building/developing new characters is fun. All this "the game only starts at endgame/the level cap" stuff is a plague upon many game genres.

Okay but honestly not that many people do that...especially when you can get to max level in just a few hours

and honestly what if there were no endgame what if it was just...the game?

More people than you think probably level up normally. I ca attest most know hate doing a grind and prefer to play the game. As such that’s how they level, by playing the game.

It would seem the replies in this thread strongly most agree with me.

I know I do. I prefer to play the game at a "normal" rate. I quest, I listen to the NPCs without speed-clicking through the dialogues, I forage, fight any random hostile NPCs I can find, I scry and excavate, and I even read many of the books. The levelling just naturally goes with that.

All the monsters and zones are already leveled to you. And I’ve seen groups specifically look for lower-level characters, I assume so they can avoid the DLC dungeons.

eh, thats part of the rpg in mmorpg though isn't it? a progression system + rewarding the player for their time spent playing the game in small ways like levelling up your character (or in this case your companion) is kinda the entire point

its those little bits of dopamine that keep you playing the game in the first place, even if you don't really think about it

and i don't really care if you happen to be the one exception to this. levelling up, finding loot, unlocking abilities...its all of these little micro rewards that are often core to rpgs and rpg inspired games. if you dont like it, then im sorry but it's the nature of the beast

that's not even mentioning the fact you actively chose to grind out your companion's levels in a boring - but efficient way. that's a choice you made. you could have levelled your companion up passively while playing other content you would have enjoyed more, but you chose to fast-track it through a less enjoyable but quicker method

and i think that's pretty cool. it's nice that you have the option to do that, but you also have the option to not do that

This topic makes me think of National Lampoon's Vacation.

"With levels and especially the game items tied to them there comes the sense of being compelled to get to the maximum item level as soon as possible."

That is a player issue not a game issue.

"All active skills in the game could be available to all characters from the start. "

Personally I like that choices we make limit the skills we have available to our characters. I like that we can choose to unlock universal skills through different quest lines and I like that none are so overpowered that we need feel compelled to complete them.
Some of my characters have finished the fighters guild skill line and some have not. To me it makes sense that the characters that have not finished the line shouldn't have access to the skills.