MashmalloMan wrote: »While I think they failed Warden's greatly, you can't say they don't listen to feedback when they pretty much nailed every other major concern of the community relevant to the PTS. I was actually very surprised how quick they were with the changes, but I suppose my standards may be a bit low..
That is with the understanding that the changes made following week 1, were based on feedback for week 1 and the weeks after. Oakensoul, Tales of Tribute, the class changes (except Warden), DK and Templar domination (although I agree the combustion nerf was heavy handed).
There is still the issue of PVP off healing not addressed and a ton of morphs that go largely unused for everyone, despite this being the patch focused on updating unused morphs for the classes. However, I think their data was based on the changes made from the Hybrid patch and how that effected morph pick rate, vs looking at how much a morph is actually used. Aka things like Mass Hystaria morphs. Basically, dead skills, didn't get adjusted at all, popular skills that saw morph diversity decreased were adjusted.
I think the results speak for themselves. Unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. Hopefully they revisit next patch.
I'm just saying, I wouldn't say they don't listen to anything, they clearly do.. they don't always agree and frankly, I'm optimistic that in the case of something like Warden, the changes required are too large that making small adjustments between the weeks wouldn't make sense if they completely overhaul them for the next update.
MashmalloMan wrote: »While I think they failed Warden's greatly, you can't say they don't listen to feedback when they pretty much nailed every other major concern of the community relevant to the PTS. I was actually very surprised how quick they were with the changes, but I suppose my standards may be a bit low..
That is with the understanding that the changes made following week 1, were based on feedback for week 1 and the weeks after. Oakensoul, Tales of Tribute, the class changes (except Warden), DK and Templar domination (although I agree the combustion nerf was heavy handed).
There is still the issue of PVP off healing not addressed and a ton of morphs that go largely unused for everyone, despite this being the patch focused on updating unused morphs for the classes. However, I think their data was based on the changes made from the Hybrid patch and how that effected morph pick rate, vs looking at how much a morph is actually used. Aka things like Mass Hystaria morphs. Basically, dead skills, didn't get adjusted at all, popular skills that saw morph diversity decreased were adjusted.
I think the results speak for themselves. Unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. Hopefully they revisit next patch.
I'm just saying, I wouldn't say they don't listen to anything, they clearly do.. they don't always agree and frankly, I'm optimistic that in the case of something like Warden, the changes required are too large that making small adjustments between the weeks wouldn't make sense if they completely overhaul them for the next update.
I think there is a general lack of understanding when it comes to feedback. Just because you give feedback doesn't mean that feedback is good, or even that the feedback fits into the general intention of a change. Just because they don't make changes based on feedback doesn't mean they are ignoring feedback. But people expect every word of feedback they give for an adjustment to be implemented, which would be pretty crazy considering even in the same thread people have conflicting feedback.
MashmalloMan wrote: »While I think they failed Warden's greatly, you can't say they don't listen to feedback when they pretty much nailed every other major concern of the community relevant to the PTS. I was actually very surprised how quick they were with the changes, but I suppose my standards may be a bit low..
That is with the understanding that the changes made following week 1, were based on feedback for week 1 and the weeks after. Oakensoul, Tales of Tribute, the class changes (except Warden), DK and Templar domination (although I agree the combustion nerf was heavy handed).
There is still the issue of PVP off healing not addressed and a ton of morphs that go largely unused for everyone, despite this being the patch focused on updating unused morphs for the classes. However, I think their data was based on the changes made from the Hybrid patch and how that effected morph pick rate, vs looking at how much a morph is actually used. Aka things like Mass Hystaria morphs. Basically, dead skills, didn't get adjusted at all, popular skills that saw morph diversity decreased were adjusted.
I think the results speak for themselves. Unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. Hopefully they revisit next patch.
I'm just saying, I wouldn't say they don't listen to anything, they clearly do.. they don't always agree and frankly, I'm optimistic that in the case of something like Warden, the changes required are too large that making small adjustments between the weeks wouldn't make sense if they completely overhaul them for the next update.
I think there is a general lack of understanding when it comes to feedback. Just because you give feedback doesn't mean that feedback is good, or even that the feedback fits into the general intention of a change. Just because they don't make changes based on feedback doesn't mean they are ignoring feedback. But people expect every word of feedback they give for an adjustment to be implemented, which would be pretty crazy considering even in the same thread people have conflicting feedback.
MashmalloMan wrote: »While I think they failed Warden's greatly, you can't say they don't listen to feedback when they pretty much nailed every other major concern of the community relevant to the PTS. I was actually very surprised how quick they were with the changes, but I suppose my standards may be a bit low..
That is with the understanding that the changes made following week 1, were based on feedback for week 1 and the weeks after. Oakensoul, Tales of Tribute, the class changes (except Warden), DK and Templar domination (although I agree the combustion nerf was heavy handed).
There is still the issue of PVP off healing not addressed and a ton of morphs that go largely unused for everyone, despite this being the patch focused on updating unused morphs for the classes. However, I think their data was based on the changes made from the Hybrid patch and how that effected morph pick rate, vs looking at how much a morph is actually used. Aka things like Mass Hystaria morphs. Basically, dead skills, didn't get adjusted at all, popular skills that saw morph diversity decreased were adjusted.
I think the results speak for themselves. Unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. Hopefully they revisit next patch.
I'm just saying, I wouldn't say they don't listen to anything, they clearly do.. they don't always agree and frankly, I'm optimistic that in the case of something like Warden, the changes required are too large that making small adjustments between the weeks wouldn't make sense if they completely overhaul them for the next update.
I think there is a general lack of understanding when it comes to feedback. Just because you give feedback doesn't mean that feedback is good, or even that the feedback fits into the general intention of a change. Just because they don't make changes based on feedback doesn't mean they are ignoring feedback. But people expect every word of feedback they give for an adjustment to be implemented, which would be pretty crazy considering even in the same thread people have conflicting feedback.
Very true. If they plan to overhaul them, why keep the bad changes they made?Eira_Rosynhwyr wrote: »But simply reverting the changes to Ice Slab and Arctic Wind would have been enough to "fix" the damage they caused.MashmalloMan wrote: »While I think they failed Warden's greatly, you can't say they don't listen to feedback when they pretty much nailed every other major concern of the community relevant to the PTS. I was actually very surprised how quick they were with the changes, but I suppose my standards may be a bit low..
That is with the understanding that the changes made following week 1, were based on feedback for week 1 and the weeks after. Oakensoul, Tales of Tribute, the class changes (except Warden), DK and Templar domination (although I agree the combustion nerf was heavy handed).
There is still the issue of PVP off healing not addressed and a ton of morphs that go largely unused for everyone, despite this being the patch focused on updating unused morphs for the classes. However, I think their data was based on the changes made from the Hybrid patch and how that effected morph pick rate, vs looking at how much a morph is actually used. Aka things like Mass Hystaria morphs. Basically, dead skills, didn't get adjusted at all, popular skills that saw morph diversity decreased were adjusted.
I think the results speak for themselves. Unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. Hopefully they revisit next patch.
I'm just saying, I wouldn't say they don't listen to anything, they clearly do.. they don't always agree and frankly, I'm optimistic that in the case of something like Warden, the changes required are too large that making small adjustments between the weeks wouldn't make sense if they completely overhaul them for the next update.
I think there is a general lack of understanding when it comes to feedback. Just because you give feedback doesn't mean that feedback is good, or even that the feedback fits into the general intention of a change. Just because they don't make changes based on feedback doesn't mean they are ignoring feedback. But people expect every word of feedback they give for an adjustment to be implemented, which would be pretty crazy considering even in the same thread people have conflicting feedback.
I mean, half the forum feedback has been on how bad the Warden changes are. How could they possible say "this is fine"? it is not fine. And that is where my outrage is coming from.
I think there is a general lack of understanding when it comes to feedback. Just because you give feedback doesn't mean that feedback is good, or even that the feedback fits into the general intention of a change. Just because they don't make changes based on feedback doesn't mean they are ignoring feedback. But people expect every word of feedback they give for an adjustment to be implemented, which would be pretty crazy considering even in the same thread people have conflicting feedback.
You know that's fair. And there was definitely some feedback that we (Warden Posts) gave that wasn't actionable feedback to a degree.
But Arctic Blast? That is 1000% Actionable. It's a bad change. And they ignored it. And even if they didn't ignore it, they could have at least acknowledged it a little.
Eira_Rosynhwyr wrote: »
MashmalloMan wrote: »Very true. If they plan to overhaul them, why keep the bad changes they made?Eira_Rosynhwyr wrote: »But simply reverting the changes to Ice Slab and Arctic Wind would have been enough to "fix" the damage they caused.MashmalloMan wrote: »While I think they failed Warden's greatly, you can't say they don't listen to feedback when they pretty much nailed every other major concern of the community relevant to the PTS. I was actually very surprised how quick they were with the changes, but I suppose my standards may be a bit low..
That is with the understanding that the changes made following week 1, were based on feedback for week 1 and the weeks after. Oakensoul, Tales of Tribute, the class changes (except Warden), DK and Templar domination (although I agree the combustion nerf was heavy handed).
There is still the issue of PVP off healing not addressed and a ton of morphs that go largely unused for everyone, despite this being the patch focused on updating unused morphs for the classes. However, I think their data was based on the changes made from the Hybrid patch and how that effected morph pick rate, vs looking at how much a morph is actually used. Aka things like Mass Hystaria morphs. Basically, dead skills, didn't get adjusted at all, popular skills that saw morph diversity decreased were adjusted.
I think the results speak for themselves. Unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. Hopefully they revisit next patch.
I'm just saying, I wouldn't say they don't listen to anything, they clearly do.. they don't always agree and frankly, I'm optimistic that in the case of something like Warden, the changes required are too large that making small adjustments between the weeks wouldn't make sense if they completely overhaul them for the next update.
I think there is a general lack of understanding when it comes to feedback. Just because you give feedback doesn't mean that feedback is good, or even that the feedback fits into the general intention of a change. Just because they don't make changes based on feedback doesn't mean they are ignoring feedback. But people expect every word of feedback they give for an adjustment to be implemented, which would be pretty crazy considering even in the same thread people have conflicting feedback.
I mean, half the forum feedback has been on how bad the Warden changes are. How could they possible say "this is fine"? it is not fine. And that is where my outrage is coming from.
The PTS seems to be for identifying bugs and unintended consequences before a patch goes live rather than a public solicitation for balance changes or class ideas.
As for the tone-deaf nature of some of the things, just remember what PTS was like for the vampire rework. There were even polls set up to try and let the devs know how bad the rework was. In the end, the goal was to make the vampire line bad. So for those concerned about a particular skill or class or what not, perhaps the devs simply want it to be bad.
Eira_Rosynhwyr wrote: »The PTS seems to be for identifying bugs and unintended consequences before a patch goes live rather than a public solicitation for balance changes or class ideas.
As for the tone-deaf nature of some of the things, just remember what PTS was like for the vampire rework. There were even polls set up to try and let the devs know how bad the rework was. In the end, the goal was to make the vampire line bad. So for those concerned about a particular skill or class or what not, perhaps the devs simply want it to be bad.
Why? So they can ignore it once players get the message to stop playing something?
MashmalloMan wrote: »While I think they failed Warden's greatly, you can't say they don't listen to feedback when they pretty much nailed every other major concern of the community relevant to the PTS. I was actually very surprised how quick they were with the changes, but I suppose my standards may be a bit low..
That is with the understanding that the changes made following week 1, were based on feedback for week 1 and the weeks after. Oakensoul, Tales of Tribute, the class changes (except Warden), DK and Templar domination (although I agree the combustion nerf was heavy handed).
There is still the issue of PVP off healing not addressed and a ton of morphs that go largely unused for everyone, despite this being the patch focused on updating unused morphs for the classes. However, I think their data was based on the changes made from the Hybrid patch and how that effected morph pick rate, vs looking at how much a morph is actually used. Aka things like Mass Hystaria morphs. Basically, dead skills, didn't get adjusted at all, popular skills that saw morph diversity decreased were adjusted.
I think the results speak for themselves. Unfortunate, but the reality of the situation. Hopefully they revisit next patch.
I'm just saying, I wouldn't say they don't listen to anything, they clearly do.. they don't always agree and frankly, I'm optimistic that in the case of something like Warden, the changes required are too large that making small adjustments between the weeks wouldn't make sense if they completely overhaul them for the next update.
I think there is a general lack of understanding when it comes to feedback. Just because you give feedback doesn't mean that feedback is good, or even that the feedback fits into the general intention of a change. Just because they don't make changes based on feedback doesn't mean they are ignoring feedback. But people expect every word of feedback they give for an adjustment to be implemented, which would be pretty crazy considering even in the same thread people have conflicting feedback.