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(not) another oakensoul thread - propose changes thread, don't complain it got nerfed.
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Yarcanine✭✭✭Another option if going the named buff route and freeing up maximum bar space would be to remove or reduce the flat weapon damage and add Minor Berserk. Would remove the need for Camo Hunter all together aside from fighters guild passives, which you could get from Dawnbreaker if you really wanted them.
So it would look like this
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Expedition, Major Evasion, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Minor Force, and Minor Berserk at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon SetsEdited by Yarcanine on May 5, 2022 3:51PM0 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another option if going the named buff route and freeing up maximum bar space would be to remove or reduce the flat weapon damage and add Minor Berserk. Would remove the need for Camo Hunter all together aside from fighters guild passives, which you could get from Dawnbreaker if you really wanted them.
So it would look like this
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Expedition, Major Evasion, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Minor Force, and Minor Berserk at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
Minor berserk is very commonly sourced from healers as well as Kinras' Wrath, which has been BiS since it came out. It is also significantly less powerful than 400 weapon and spell damage, and is not a proper replacement for an infused damage glyph.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author1 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭BroughBreaux wrote: »Another option if going the named buff route and freeing up maximum bar space would be to remove or reduce the flat weapon damage and add Minor Berserk. Would remove the need for Camo Hunter all together aside from fighters guild passives, which you could get from Dawnbreaker if you really wanted them.
So it would look like this
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Expedition, Major Evasion, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Minor Force, and Minor Berserk at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
Minor berserk is very commonly sourced from healers as well as Kinras' Wrath, which has been BiS since it came out. It is also significantly less powerful than 400 weapon and spell damage, and is not a proper replacement for an infused damage glyph.
True, fair enough0 -
Dragonredux✭✭✭✭✭Building off the updated OP. I still feel like Armor at half a major resolve value just to build off the defensive nature a bit more even though I know Major Evasion and Major Expedition got added.
Regardless, an unnamed dmg buff that makes up for the lack off a backbar feels better.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think everyone misses the point where this mythical was never meant for competent players, but for people with disability and tunnel who really struggle with the bar swapping.
It will still be the best in slot for those and I'd prefer if it stayed in that realm rather than actually becoming a valid choice for "normal" players. This mythical is nothing else than ZoS recognizing the 1 bar style as a valid tactic and this is a gift for those handicapped players.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Pretty awful gift when it sucks and is counterintuitive to its own design philosophy by not actually being a backbar replacement and arbitrarily puts potion buffs on it rather than stuff you would actually put on your backbar like Major Sorcery/Brutality and Minor Force & Major Expedition.this is a gift for those handicapped players.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
3 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.Edited by Yarcanine on May 6, 2022 4:52PM0 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
This also works. Recovery is currently overblown on all classes and I noticed my testing with post-nerf oakensoul had pretty garbage recovery so this would be a welcome addition to bring it up to the recovery potential from running Wretched Vitality on your backbar.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).Edited by twing1_ on May 6, 2022 4:57PM2 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).
Wildhunt is not a great mythic as it is outside of maybe nightblades, as the 15% speed can be replaced by 2 swift traits. Also this is bad reasoning there are plenty of mythics outclassed by oakensoul, just look at death dealers fete. Oakensoul is a 100% DDF uptime along with everything else it provides, markyn is also outclassed by oakensoul on any 1bar build including WW.Edited by Yarcanine on May 6, 2022 5:08PM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).
Wildhunt is not a great mythic as it is outside of maybe nightblades, as the 15% speed can be replaced by 2 swift traits. Also this is bad reasoning there are plenty of mythics outclassed by oakensoul, just look at death dealers fete. Oakensoul is a 100% DDF uptime along with everything else it provides, markyn is also outclassed by oakensoul on any 1bar build including WW.
You're right about ddf and markyn, but just look at the relative potencys.
DDF max stats: 2640
Oaken max stats: 3737
3737/2640= 1.4155
Oaken is 1.4155x as strong as DDF
Max markyn: 300 wd, 3471 armor
oaken: 430 wd, 5948 armor
430/300= 1.4333, 5948/3471= 1.7136
Oaken is 1.433x as strong as markyn on wd, and 1.7136x as strong as markyn on armor
Wild hunt combat speed: 15%
Oaken combat speed: 30%
30/15= 2.00
Oaken is 2.00x as strong as wild hunt
Though oaken overshadows other mythics too, wild hunt is by far the most overshadowed if major expedition were to be granted by this ring, as it would give only half the speed bonus oaken would grant. The other mythics you listed would on average give no less than 70% of the bonuses granted by oaken.
Major expedition does not belong on this ring.0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭I think everyone misses the point where this mythical was never meant for competent players, but for people with disability and tunnel who really struggle with the bar swapping.
It will still be the best in slot for those and I'd prefer if it stayed in that realm rather than actually becoming a valid choice for "normal" players. This mythical is nothing else than ZoS recognizing the 1 bar style as a valid tactic and this is a gift for those handicapped players.
This ring does not make the game easier. If you can't click the button on the switch panel. Then you need to see a doctor and not play the game. This ring significantly complicates the gameplay in both pvp and pve. Even a werewolf will feel better than any class that uses a ring. One panel. To play with this ring, you need to know a lot more about the game than a beginner. Well, if you want to complete quests. You don't need this ring.
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Yarcanine✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).
Wildhunt is not a great mythic as it is outside of maybe nightblades, as the 15% speed can be replaced by 2 swift traits. Also this is bad reasoning there are plenty of mythics outclassed by oakensoul, just look at death dealers fete. Oakensoul is a 100% DDF uptime along with everything else it provides, markyn is also outclassed by oakensoul on any 1bar build including WW.
You're right about ddf and markyn, but just look at the relative potencys.
DDF max stats: 2640
Oaken max stats: 3737
3737/2640= 1.4155
Oaken is 1.4155x as strong as DDF
Max markyn: 300 wd, 3471 armor
oaken: 430 wd, 5948 armor
430/300= 1.4333, 5948/3471= 1.7136
Oaken is 1.433x as strong as markyn on wd, and 1.7136x as strong as markyn on armor
Wild hunt combat speed: 15%
Oaken combat speed: 30%
30/15= 2.00
Oaken is 2.00x as strong as wild hunt
Though oaken overshadows other mythics too, wild hunt is by far the most overshadowed if major expedition were to be granted by this ring, as it would give only half the speed bonus oaken would grant. The other mythics you listed would on average give no less than 70% of the bonuses granted by oaken.
Major expedition does not belong on this ring.
The main value of wildhunt is that it provides a unique speed bonus and should really be used in tandem with Expedition. It'd not a good mythic to run on WW regardless as you can easily get access to major expedition by using a bow as its one of the only Weapon passives that carry over in WW form. It's also not great if you don't have a snare removal as snares completely overpower whatever bonus wildhunt gives you.Edited by Yarcanine on May 6, 2022 6:19PM0 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah but I see the point being made. Compared to other mythics, it's a bit OP with the suggested changes, it is not OP currently (just to be clear). Getting rid of evasion and expedition and replacing with minor recoveries would work well for balancing.I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).
Wildhunt is not a great mythic as it is outside of maybe nightblades, as the 15% speed can be replaced by 2 swift traits. Also this is bad reasoning there are plenty of mythics outclassed by oakensoul, just look at death dealers fete. Oakensoul is a 100% DDF uptime along with everything else it provides, markyn is also outclassed by oakensoul on any 1bar build including WW.
You're right about ddf and markyn, but just look at the relative potencys.
DDF max stats: 2640
Oaken max stats: 3737
3737/2640= 1.4155
Oaken is 1.4155x as strong as DDF
Max markyn: 300 wd, 3471 armor
oaken: 430 wd, 5948 armor
430/300= 1.4333, 5948/3471= 1.7136
Oaken is 1.433x as strong as markyn on wd, and 1.7136x as strong as markyn on armor
Wild hunt combat speed: 15%
Oaken combat speed: 30%
30/15= 2.00
Oaken is 2.00x as strong as wild hunt
Though oaken overshadows other mythics too, wild hunt is by far the most overshadowed if major expedition were to be granted by this ring, as it would give only half the speed bonus oaken would grant. The other mythics you listed would on average give no less than 70% of the bonuses granted by oaken.
Major expedition does not belong on this ring.
The main value of wildhunt is that it provides a unique speed bonus and should really be used in tandem with Expedition. It'd not a good mythic to run on WW regardless as you can easily get access to major expedition by using a bow as its one of the only Weapon passives that carry over in WW form. It's also not great if you don't have a snare removal as snares completely overpower whatever bonus wildhunt gives you.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author0 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭BroughBreaux wrote: »
Yeah but I see the point being made. Compared to other mythics, it's a bit OP with the suggested changes, it is not OP currently (just to be clear). Getting rid of evasion and expedition and replacing with minor recoveries would work well for balancing.I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).
Wildhunt is not a great mythic as it is outside of maybe nightblades, as the 15% speed can be replaced by 2 swift traits. Also this is bad reasoning there are plenty of mythics outclassed by oakensoul, just look at death dealers fete. Oakensoul is a 100% DDF uptime along with everything else it provides, markyn is also outclassed by oakensoul on any 1bar build including WW.
You're right about ddf and markyn, but just look at the relative potencys.
DDF max stats: 2640
Oaken max stats: 3737
3737/2640= 1.4155
Oaken is 1.4155x as strong as DDF
Max markyn: 300 wd, 3471 armor
oaken: 430 wd, 5948 armor
430/300= 1.4333, 5948/3471= 1.7136
Oaken is 1.433x as strong as markyn on wd, and 1.7136x as strong as markyn on armor
Wild hunt combat speed: 15%
Oaken combat speed: 30%
30/15= 2.00
Oaken is 2.00x as strong as wild hunt
Though oaken overshadows other mythics too, wild hunt is by far the most overshadowed if major expedition were to be granted by this ring, as it would give only half the speed bonus oaken would grant. The other mythics you listed would on average give no less than 70% of the bonuses granted by oaken.
Major expedition does not belong on this ring.
The main value of wildhunt is that it provides a unique speed bonus and should really be used in tandem with Expedition. It'd not a good mythic to run on WW regardless as you can easily get access to major expedition by using a bow as its one of the only Weapon passives that carry over in WW form. It's also not great if you don't have a snare removal as snares completely overpower whatever bonus wildhunt gives you.
The main reason I'm disagreeing is because with the current ring you can have both major expedition and 5.2k resists which is the replacement for evasion because the ring provides recoveries. So switching the recoveries back to potions and putting the buffs on the ring makes more sense imo. Especially since the purpose here is to provide buffs you would run on your backbar. It doesn't really affect WW much because they already can have the speed and mitigation currently. Yes the proposed ring is slightly better, but not by a lot.Edited by Yarcanine on May 6, 2022 6:38PM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).
Wildhunt is not a great mythic as it is outside of maybe nightblades, as the 15% speed can be replaced by 2 swift traits. Also this is bad reasoning there are plenty of mythics outclassed by oakensoul, just look at death dealers fete. Oakensoul is a 100% DDF uptime along with everything else it provides, markyn is also outclassed by oakensoul on any 1bar build including WW.
You're right about ddf and markyn, but just look at the relative potencys.
DDF max stats: 2640
Oaken max stats: 3737
3737/2640= 1.4155
Oaken is 1.4155x as strong as DDF
Max markyn: 300 wd, 3471 armor
oaken: 430 wd, 5948 armor
430/300= 1.4333, 5948/3471= 1.7136
Oaken is 1.433x as strong as markyn on wd, and 1.7136x as strong as markyn on armor
Wild hunt combat speed: 15%
Oaken combat speed: 30%
30/15= 2.00
Oaken is 2.00x as strong as wild hunt
Though oaken overshadows other mythics too, wild hunt is by far the most overshadowed if major expedition were to be granted by this ring, as it would give only half the speed bonus oaken would grant. The other mythics you listed would on average give no less than 70% of the bonuses granted by oaken.
Major expedition does not belong on this ring.
The main value of wildhunt is that it provides a unique speed bonus and should really be used in tandem with Expedition. It'd not a good mythic to run on WW regardless as you can easily get access to major expedition by using a bow as its one of the only Weapon passives that carry over in WW form. It's also not great if you don't have a snare removal as snares completely overpower whatever bonus wildhunt gives you.
Are you making the argument that major expedition is easy to get, therefore this ring should grant it?
All sources of major expedition (outside of a select few, like 5 pc bonuses and channeled acceleration whose cast time morph specifically triples this value) grant only 4 seconds of major expedition. It is one of the hardest buffs to maintain 100% uptime, and this is for balancing purposes.
All of the other proposed major/minor buffs on this ring are easily obtainable through sources that provide at a minimum 10 seconds of the buff (minor force being the restrictor here on the lightweight trap morph, but even this is typically at least 12s on race against time or 18.5 seconds on rearming trap), and usually 20+ seconds (as is the case for major resolve, brutality, and sorcery), or even permanently via bar slot skills (major savagery/prophecy).
Major expedition is the outlier here.
Evasion is also an outlier here, as this is primarily sourced by the medium armor skill, requiring 5 pcs of medium armor to activate. This is also for balancing purposes.
Sure, it would be convenient if these buffs were attached to this ring.
But from a balancing perspective, they absolutely should not be granted by this ring.Edited by twing1_ on May 6, 2022 6:46PM0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭BroughBreaux wrote: »
Yeah but I see the point being made. Compared to other mythics, it's a bit OP with the suggested changes, it is not OP currently (just to be clear). Getting rid of evasion and expedition and replacing with minor recoveries would work well for balancing.I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs outside of WW isn't OP either imo, as you can easily do this with skills like Elude/Shuffle or Race Against Time and with all the drawbacks of a 1bar build its not much of an advantage.
Putting major expedition on this ring would render using ring of the wild hunt on a werewolf build utterly useless. Why would a wolf go for a 15% unnamed speed boost when they could have a 30% speed boost, wd/sd, and a ton of othe rmajor buffs instead? Even with the bow roll dodge major expedition, it would simply not be worth it.
Oaken would overshadow wild hunt in all ways, including speed, where wild hunt is supposed to shine (as it does not provide any more bonuses).
Wildhunt is not a great mythic as it is outside of maybe nightblades, as the 15% speed can be replaced by 2 swift traits. Also this is bad reasoning there are plenty of mythics outclassed by oakensoul, just look at death dealers fete. Oakensoul is a 100% DDF uptime along with everything else it provides, markyn is also outclassed by oakensoul on any 1bar build including WW.
You're right about ddf and markyn, but just look at the relative potencys.
DDF max stats: 2640
Oaken max stats: 3737
3737/2640= 1.4155
Oaken is 1.4155x as strong as DDF
Max markyn: 300 wd, 3471 armor
oaken: 430 wd, 5948 armor
430/300= 1.4333, 5948/3471= 1.7136
Oaken is 1.433x as strong as markyn on wd, and 1.7136x as strong as markyn on armor
Wild hunt combat speed: 15%
Oaken combat speed: 30%
30/15= 2.00
Oaken is 2.00x as strong as wild hunt
Though oaken overshadows other mythics too, wild hunt is by far the most overshadowed if major expedition were to be granted by this ring, as it would give only half the speed bonus oaken would grant. The other mythics you listed would on average give no less than 70% of the bonuses granted by oaken.
Major expedition does not belong on this ring.
The main value of wildhunt is that it provides a unique speed bonus and should really be used in tandem with Expedition. It'd not a good mythic to run on WW regardless as you can easily get access to major expedition by using a bow as its one of the only Weapon passives that carry over in WW form. It's also not great if you don't have a snare removal as snares completely overpower whatever bonus wildhunt gives you.
The main reason I'm disagreeing is because with the current ring you can have both major expedition and 5.2k resists which is the replacement for evasion because the ring provides recoveries. So switching the recoveries back to potions and putting the buffs on the ring makes more sense imo. Especially since the purpose here is to provide buffs you would run on your backbar. It doesn't really affect WW much because they already can have the speed and mitigation currently. Yes the proposed ring is slightly better, but not by a lot.
Also, my proposed change adds Minor recovery buffs, that are not sourced from potions. The major recovery buffs could still be sourced through potions.0 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭
Major Expedition is one of the easiest buffs to have a high uptime on, with many abilities, bow roll dodge, and meta sets like Daedric Trickery.
Evasion is a bit harder but even that you can get with Blade Cloak on builds that don't use medium armor, and builds that do can use Elude which gives both expedition and Evasion with an ability that has 30s uptime. Only reason Evasion is even proposed on the ring is because it lost its unique 5k armor and WW can get an extra 5k armor from running armor pots currently and the overall mitigation doesn't change much going from 5.2k resists to Major Evasion. Without that your average WW is sitting on like 22k armor hardly a mega OP tank.
Edited by Yarcanine on May 6, 2022 7:21PM0 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭I like the direction of where you are going with this ring, but...
Neither major expedition nor major evasion belongs on this ring. 100% uptime on these would make this ring extremely op in pvp.... Especially on werewolves. Imagine a werewolf with this ring moving at speed cap 100% of the time with no effort, while also taking 20% less damage from aoe.
There is a reason why wolves are not granted access to these buffs outside of dedicating a whole 5 piece bonus for them.
Even outside of werewolf form, 100% uptime on major expedition would be crazy.
Swapping these buffs for minor recovery buffs would be ideal.
Something like this would look better imo:
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, and Minor Fortitude at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets
You can already have high uptime with Expedition on WW by using a bow as the roll dodge passive carries over to WW form, having slightly better uptime won't be game breaking especially on a spec that has no form of snare removal. The reasoning of including Evasion is that currently with the ring providing major recoveries you can run armor potions which give 5.2k resists vs all damage not just AoE or you can use immovable pots both of which are arguably equivalent to or better than evasion. Having 100% uptime on these buffs0 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Major Expedition is one of the easiest buffs to have a high uptime on, with many abilities, bow roll dodge, and meta sets like Daedric Trickery.
Evasion is a bit harder but even that you can get with Blade Cloak on builds that don't use medium armor, and builds that do can use Elude which gives both expedition and Evasion with an ability that has 30s uptime. Only reason Evasion is even proposed on the ring is because it lost its unique 5k armor and WW can get an extra 5k armor from running armor pots currently and the overall mitigation doesn't change much going from 5.2k resists to Major Evasion. Without that your average WW is sitting on like 22k armor hardly a mega OP tank.
I still think it's crazy that Warden has the Only Forms of Minor Evasion. Guess they gotta let us keep something. I still like BoP thoughAltoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup0 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭So a few more ideas have been thrown around and I think this might be a good balance considering everything
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets.
Reasoning for dropping the evasion and expedition is for werewolf balancing. Werewolves getting major evasion would make them a lot more powerful where they already can be very strong without it. Major Expedition is pretty commonly sourced in PvE from supports as well as sets so I don't believe it is necessary to add to this ring.
The reasoning for swapping those for Minor recoveries is because, in my copious amount of testing Oakensoul on PTS, recovery has been worse off overall compared to what can be achieved on a standard 2bar setup.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author3 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭BroughBreaux wrote: »So a few more ideas have been thrown around and I think this might be a good balance considering everything
(1 item) Adds 400 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Resolve, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, and Minor Force at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets.
Reasoning for dropping the evasion and expedition is for werewolf balancing. Werewolves getting major evasion would make them a lot more powerful where they already can be very strong without it. Major Expedition is pretty commonly sourced in PvE from supports as well as sets so I don't believe it is necessary to add to this ring.
The reasoning for swapping those for Minor recoveries is because, in my copious amount of testing Oakensoul on PTS, recovery has been worse off overall compared to what can be achieved on a standard 2bar setup.
I would legitimately consider having a Joakensoul setup or two if this was the final versionAdd a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
---
Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.1 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭
Major Expedition is one of the easiest buffs to have a high uptime on, with many abilities, bow roll dodge, and meta sets like Daedric Trickery.
Evasion is a bit harder but even that you can get with Blade Cloak on builds that don't use medium armor, and builds that do can use Elude which gives both expedition and Evasion with an ability that has 30s uptime. Only reason Evasion is even proposed on the ring is because it lost its unique 5k armor and WW can get an extra 5k armor from running armor pots currently and the overall mitigation doesn't change much going from 5.2k resists to Major Evasion. Without that your average WW is sitting on like 22k armor hardly a mega OP tank.
Expedition is one of the easiest buffs to keep high uptime on? Please compare your personal uptime of major expedition to your personal uptime of any one of the other major/minor buffs provided by this set, and share the results.
Brutality/sorcery/prophecy/savagery are all very near 100%, either due to potions or skills. Expedition is not.
In fact, let's take a look at potions. Brutality/sorcery and savagery/prophecy potions provide 100% uptime of these buffs. The duration of major brutality/sorcery and savagery/prophecy provided by potions last the entire potion cooldown. Potions that provide major expedition do not. This is for balancing purposes.
Expedition is not one of the easiest buffs to get high uptime on. The two sources you mentioned by name are either 1. locked behind a particular weapon type (bow) and roll dodge which is very expensive combat ability (even with x7 well fitted, and 7x medium armor, the cost of roll dodge is about 1k Stam/4 seconds of major evasion, which to keep 100% uptime on major expedition for 30 seconds would require about 7.5k stamina without taking into account the 33% cost increase for consecutive rolls if you mess up on the timing) or 2. Locked behind wearing 5x pieces of medium armor (for elude) or 5x armor set pieces (for daedric trickery). Even so, daedric trickery relies on rng to get uptime of major expedition, and even so it does not provide any chance for 100% uptime. The closest comparison between 5 pc set bonuses and major expedition you have is adept rider, which grants it 100% of the time. And the other option, elude, is 100% reliant on you taking damage from outside aoe sources for the major expedition uptime, which is not reliable at all unless you are actively chasing red circles and paying a cost to health.
Sources of the other major buffs are tied to skills that last 20+ seconds that are available to all classes and weapons (via guild skills, or across multiple weapon lines) and cost a fraction of the resource cost it takes to maintain the expedition buff for 30 seconds (3780x1.5=5670 for rally, and this does not require 7x medium and 7x armor traits to achieve).
Relative to the other major buffs granted by this ring, expedition is one of the hardest and most costly to keep high uptime on, and this is indisputable.
Major expedition, and major evasion for that matter, are on another level compared to the other major buffs, and do not belong on this ring.
Edited by twing1_ on May 7, 2022 8:10AM0 -
Aoshy✭✭✭(1 item) Adds 370 Weapon and Spell Damage
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Stamina
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Health
(1 item) Adds 3737 Maximum Magicka
(1 item) Adds 5948 Armor
(1 item) Gain Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Major Prophecy, Major Savagery, Minor Fortitude, Minor Intellect, Minor Endurance, Minor Expedition, and Minor Force at all times.
While equipped, you are unable to swap between your Primary and Backup Weapon Sets.
* It does not work in Werewolf form*
Edited by Aoshy on May 7, 2022 11:19AM0 -
Bokila✭✭✭Imo it should mainly give you the buffs obtained/slotted on the back bar such as Major Resolve. When it comes to Major Prophecy and Major Savagery we should have a Crit Chance stat instead because people already slot a passive skill on main bar that provides those and the ring was supposed to remove the need of having the back bar. Even 1k Crit Chance would be better than the major buff.0 -
twing1_✭✭✭✭Imo it should mainly give you the buffs obtained/slotted on the back bar such as Major Resolve. When it comes to Major Prophecy and Major Savagery we should have a Crit Chance stat instead because people already slot a passive skill on main bar that provides those and the ring was supposed to remove the need of having the back bar. Even 1k Crit Chance would be better than the major buff.
I agree with the major resolve point, but disagree with the crit point. The primary purpose of this ring is to free up skill spots on 1 bar builds. Having the ring grant major prophecy/savagery would open up an otherwise inactive skill on the front bar.
Skill slots are already at a premium on one bar builds, and it doesn't make sense to pigeon hole them into slotting a skill that they won't ever actually activate.1 -
Bokila✭✭✭Imo it should mainly give you the buffs obtained/slotted on the back bar such as Major Resolve. When it comes to Major Prophecy and Major Savagery we should have a Crit Chance stat instead because people already slot a passive skill on main bar that provides those and the ring was supposed to remove the need of having the back bar. Even 1k Crit Chance would be better than the major buff.
I agree with the major resolve point, but disagree with the crit point. The primary purpose of this ring is to free up skill spots on 1 bar builds. Having the ring grant major prophecy/savagery would open up an otherwise inactive skill on the front bar.
Skill slots are already at a premium on one bar builds, and it doesn't make sense to pigeon hole them into slotting a skill that they won't ever actually activate.
From a PVE pov, the Crit Chance stats being replaced with Major Prophecy and Major Savagery was a huge nerf. Having a global cooldown on abilities reduces the amount of abilities casted in order to achieve a higher dps anyway so slotting a passive ability on main bar would be no problem. PVP wise, idk. I guess you could find stuff to fill your bar with but the whole concept of the ring was making it easier for people that struggle with skill casting/bar swapping which means having a passive ability slotted would be more optimal for them.0 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would definitely agree that the Prophecy and Savagery should be replaced by a flat crit bonus. You'll have to use Spell Power Potions and no longer be able to run heroism (if you didn't want to slot inner light) but you'd get more crit chance, which I also noticed was pretty low compared to what I normally would get on a 2bar build where I can run the Wading Kilt.
I would definitely like to see the Prophecy and Savagery turned into a unique crit chance bonus.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author1