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The Oakensoul nerf missed the mark completely
HanYolo
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The item in its state previous to yesterdays nerf was completely and utterly broken and overpowered, there is no discussion to be had about that fact. Putting 1 bar builds 5-10% behind the very best of meta rotations and making werewolf unstoppable in PvP were way too much power. Instead of adjusting the unique stat values ZOS decided to turn most of the into their respective Major buffs, which cannot be stacked. This has the following consequences:
1. The ring is useless for any form of group play since a large part of its power is provided anyways by the group.
2. It is useless for werewolf players because the receive most of the major buffs passively anyways.
3. It is very underwhelming for solo players who somewhat manage their buffs and skills, providing very little in terms of power for giving up an entire skillbar.
4. The only scenario where it might be good is for new players who might not have the hang of barswapping and buffs yet, but between level 10-50 you are not gonna have dug up an entire mythic item
They effectively removed the ring from its broken status to just another "meh" mythic you dig up to have it and then throw it in a box to collect dust. Even just halving all the original stats would have been a better balancing approach than this. Why ZOS cant be bothered to actually try and find the sweet spot where the ring is usefull but not overpowered is beyond me. Makes you wonder why they even bother to have a test server.
1. The ring is useless for any form of group play since a large part of its power is provided anyways by the group.
2. It is useless for werewolf players because the receive most of the major buffs passively anyways.
3. It is very underwhelming for solo players who somewhat manage their buffs and skills, providing very little in terms of power for giving up an entire skillbar.
4. The only scenario where it might be good is for new players who might not have the hang of barswapping and buffs yet, but between level 10-50 you are not gonna have dug up an entire mythic item
They effectively removed the ring from its broken status to just another "meh" mythic you dig up to have it and then throw it in a box to collect dust. Even just halving all the original stats would have been a better balancing approach than this. Why ZOS cant be bothered to actually try and find the sweet spot where the ring is usefull but not overpowered is beyond me. Makes you wonder why they even bother to have a test server.
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Kusto✭✭✭✭✭Nah it's still strong for solo and pug dungeons because of major courage. That extra spell/wep dmg outweighs monster sets. 90% of the pug healers don't wear spc/olo. And half the healers don't provide any buffs because they're fake.14 -
BloodMagicLord✭✭✭✭I agree, this nerf was done really badly.
I don't understand why they didn't just reduce some of the values to make the ring still be strong but not ridiculously overpowered.
Personally I would have reduced the spell and weapon damage buffs to 250 or 300, and reduced the regeneration so that it wasn't possible to sustain on green food with 0 heavy attacks.
Instead though the item is now pretty much useless as you said - you pretty much get all of the buffs that the ring now gives you anyway in a raid, or even most decent dungeon groups.
Zenimax - if you leave this item as it is now, almost noone is going to use it.PC EU | Tank | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart
STOP CLASS HOMOGENISATION5 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd go this route till the end. Provide MORE named buffs.
+Minor force, mending, vitality, protection
+Minor and major brutality, sorcery, expedition
+All the minor versions the buffs it already has
So, like, big organised group will provide you will all that, and backbar buffs will provide you with all that also.
But solo PvP or PUG dungeons will actually like all the buffs, even if some overlap.
The stronger your group - the less reasons to run it.6 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like how people mention how wws are kings of solo, same for vampires. What content, exactly? Overland is a joke.3 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah I've been quietly sitting here so far thinking "I actually love this change!" but do also wish it provided Major Brutality/Sorcery at the very least. Maybe even Heroism too? The thought of it being a buff item, replacing the need for buffs on the skill bar and from potions, but at the cost of gaining access to a backbar... yes please!I'd go this route till the end. Provide MORE named buffs.
+Minor force, mending, vitality, protection
+Minor and major brutality, sorcery, expedition
+All the minor versions the buffs it already has
So, like, big organised group will provide you will all that, and backbar buffs will provide you with all that also.
But solo PvP or PUG dungeons will actually like all the buffs, even if some overlap.
The stronger your group - the less reasons to run it.
I see it as an amazing QOL item for solo play, questing etc. As much as I love the intensity of healing in vet DLC dungeons, I like to keep things simple in overland and story content. I already use only a single bar for the most part. Getting rid of the need to manage buff uptimes while questing through this mythic would make me really happy. But then when I'm questing I also turn into the kind of filthy casual who swears this game would be immeasurably more enjoyable if all buff skills (like Major Brutality/Sorcery skills) functioned the same way as Major Savagery/Prophecy from the guild lines - buff is ALWAYS active while slotted, with extra functionality on cast. No need to manage the uptimes.
I do completely understand that some people will hate this. That's fine. But if ZOS want to "relegate" this mythic to solo play only, I don't see that as a bad thing. I think it's great to have a mythic filling those boots. It does need a little extra oomph though.3 -
Vylaera✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally think there was absolutely nothing wrong with where it was sitting before the nerf because it wasn't any more powerful than a standard double bar build and was balanced for endgame actually really well. It just became an option between using this mythic or a standard 2bar build and rotation. Simplifying the button mashing is a good thing.
The only place it was too strong was werewolf. And all you needed to do to fix that is add a circumstantial proc condition that reads "While transformed, the bonuses granted are reduced by 50%", that way werewolf is still getting a buff but not tremendously so, and 1bar builds can become meta as an option rather than 1bar being utter trash in any serious content.
I was having so much fun doing harder solo content like DLC worldbosses and soloing group content on the PTS with this. It was so simple and easy and a refreshing break from button mashing like usual and it was powerful enough that I wasn't at a disadvantage with it.
If the goal was the make a mythic that made 1bar vs 2bar simply a matter of preference rather than 2bar being required for anything harder than overland, then pre-nerf oakensoul was perfect. Where it is now, it's just useless.Vy • lae • ra | Fan of all things Vampiric | PC NA | Accurate World Map artist | Immaculate Reshade author3 -
Captain_OP✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Yeah I've been quietly sitting here so far thinking "I actually love this change!" but do also wish it provided Major Brutality/Sorcery at the very least. Maybe even Heroism too? The thought of it being a buff item, replacing the need for buffs on the skill bar and from potions, but at the cost of gaining access to a backbar... yes please!
Yes, like i said in this thread with same topic , it should have a lot of buffs that free the space of the bar.1 -
Captain_OP✭✭✭BroughBreaux wrote: »If the goal was the make a mythic that made 1bar vs 2bar simply a matter of preference rather than 2bar being required for anything harder than overland, then pre-nerf oakensoul was perfect. Where it is now, it's just useless.
If it would be a matter of preference than no one would play two bars, because why would you like to have a harder time, when you reach the same goal much easier.6 -
prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭Darkstorne wrote: »Yeah I've been quietly sitting here so far thinking "I actually love this change!" but do also wish it provided Major Brutality/Sorcery at the very least. Maybe even Heroism too? The thought of it being a buff item, replacing the need for buffs on the skill bar and from potions, but at the cost of gaining access to a backbar... yes please!
I think that's the thing. If they're going to pick this route, they need to commit to it, and just have it provide every named buff in the game.3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pre-8.0.2 PTS Oakensoul stats:
Oakensoul on the intitial "preview" that was on internal server:The weirdest part is they a actually "had it" in a nice sweet-spot but for whatever reason decided not to use it...
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Toxic_Hemlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Pre-8.0.2 PTS Oakensoul stats:Oakensoul on the intitial "preview" that was on internal server:The weirdest part is they a actually "had it" in a nice sweet-spot but for whatever reason decided not to use it...
I would agree save the increased crit chance, even halving it from the pre-nerf (apx 1k) would have been a nice addition for one bar users like myself.1 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The item in its state previous to yesterdays nerf was completely and utterly broken and overpowered, there is no discussion to be had about that fact. Putting 1 bar builds 5-10% behind the very best of meta rotations and making werewolf unstoppable in PvP were way too much power. Instead of adjusting the unique stat values ZOS decided to turn most of the into their respective Major buffs, which cannot be stacked. This has the following consequences:
1. The ring is useless for any form of group play since a large part of its power is provided anyways by the group.
2. It is useless for werewolf players because the receive most of the major buffs passively anyways.
3. It is very underwhelming for solo players who somewhat manage their buffs and skills, providing very little in terms of power for giving up an entire skillbar.
4. The only scenario where it might be good is for new players who might not have the hang of barswapping and buffs yet, but between level 10-50 you are not gonna have dug up an entire mythic item
They effectively removed the ring from its broken status to just another "meh" mythic you dig up to have it and then throw it in a box to collect dust. Even just halving all the original stats would have been a better balancing approach than this. Why ZOS cant be bothered to actually try and find the sweet spot where the ring is usefull but not overpowered is beyond me. Makes you wonder why they even bother to have a test server.
mythic items are also locked to being cp160 items, so its not useful on lowbie periodplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities2 -
EramTheLiar✭✭✭✭I think this version of Oakensoul would be OK if they removed the one bar only limitation. A ring that gives you all your major buffs would be similar in utility to Pale Order - very useful, but potentially a lot less useful in groups than solo. Of course that breaks the concept behind the mythic, but the concept needs more than the current version to justify the restriction.1
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like how people mention how wws are kings of solo, same for vampires. What content, exactly? Overland is a joke.
Maelstrom Arena, solo PvP, and Vateshran Hollows. Also doing group content solo if you can get away with it like soloing normal Blackrose Prison, Dragonstar Arena, and a few dungeons.
Nobody takes overland seriously, and when they talk about solo content overland rarely comes up unless you're talking soloing world bosses/events.Edited by Vevvev on May 3, 2022 5:59PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Yarcanine✭✭✭If they want the ring to be a replacement for buffs that you would run on your backbar then they should drop the major recoveries which you can easily get from a tristat potion for Brutality, Expedition, and Evasion0 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nah it's still strong for solo and pug dungeons because of major courage. That extra spell/wep dmg outweighs monster sets. 90% of the pug healers don't wear spc/olo. And half the healers don't provide any buffs because they're fake.
Most people on pugs and solo that wanted something like this already face roll through pugs and solo. It's about giving people that can't do two-bar setups for whatever reason a way to catch up to the veteran endgame, and allow them to do vet trials and harder vet dungeons. As the item sits now, it's no longer useful for that.0 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The ring is now bad plain and simple. If they were worried bout one-bar players being close to two-bar players, they shouldn't have 1. asked us if we wanted something like this and 2. shouldn't have released it in the first place. It was designed for people with disabilities or some inability to use two-bar builds to be able to run end-game content; vet trials and the harder vet dungeons. The pre-nerf version was WAY overtuned for pvp ww, and maybe 10-20% overtuned for this purpose. It needed a slight nerf (something like 450 w/s att to 300, and 2k crit rate to 1200-1500 crit rate) along with a ww specific nerf like a reduction in stats for werewolves or just plain making it so ww don't get the benefits of the ring at all. With the new design choice, it would need Major Berserk and Minor Force to even come close to where it needs to be, with the more preferable option being remove the Courage and add back the 450 w/s att and add Major Berserk. But most preferably would be undoing the change, implementing that 10-20% nerf I mentioned, and giving a limiter to WW's or just balance is separately for pve and pvp, since pve ww don't overperform with the ring from what I've read.0