Necromancer Update

Melzo · April 2022

I didn't like the necromancer changes. It's a spit in the face. If you remove the dark conversion from pvp, Cyrodiil will leave 3/4 of the necromancers. The mana of necromancers has no alternative. I have tried many different builds and almost all of them are rubbish. Inferno staff does not enhance mass abilities, and apart from the skeleton, he has nothing. Making the necromancer extremely weak in ranged combat and the only choice is a synergy with a 20 second cooldown. Funny huh? An ability with a 20 second cooldown in a game where abilities have no cooldowns. Playing from ultimate to ultimate. As a result, necromancers fight either like bombers or take dual weapons and in close combat like bombers)). I'm just in shock that among the 6 classes, only sorc and nb fight in ranged combat. And changing the necromancer in the patch note does not change this in any way. These changes just do not strengthen the necromancer by a percentage .. Changes in order to write that something has changed ...

A new chapter - broken dreams. Thank you zos.

A good necromancer is a dead necromancer.

VarisVaris · April 2022

Magnecro is already an overperforming class that's just slightly behind magdk and magplar.

And there is absolutely no need to run harmony or dark convergence for it to be broken.

Melzo · April 2022

I don't even want to argue with you. I didn't say the necromancer was weak. I say the necromancers have no choice. Either you are a bomber out of it, or better create another class. You have 6 offensive abilities, only 3 of them are useful. Even changing the scythe did not help in any way in pvp. And we will not change anything to write that the necromancer is strong. Maybe you are satisfied that cyrodiil has not been updated for 8 years ?? Maybe you are satisfied that the game is stupid and lags ?? Why change something and it will do ... When necromancers cannot play without a dark conversion, because there is no choice.

Melzo · April 2022

Mana Warden and mana necromancer fight only in melee hah, what have they come to ... Or bombers ..

Urzigurumash · April 2022

What change are you talking about?

Melzo · April 2022

Good question))

Zezin · April 2022

Melzo wrote: »

I don't even want to argue with you. I didn't say the necromancer was weak. I say the necromancers have no choice. Either you are a bomber out of it, or better create another class. You have 6 offensive abilities, only 3 of them are useful. Even changing the scythe did not help in any way in pvp. And we will not change anything to write that the necromancer is strong. Maybe you are satisfied that cyrodiil has not been updated for 8 years ?? Maybe you are satisfied that the game is stupid and lags ?? Why change something and it will do ... When necromancers cannot play without a dark conversion, because there is no choice.

I play Necro pvp by either stacking dots or as a brawler, sure it's not the "meta" but it can work, you're forgetting that the class is the tankiest among all classes making it so it benefits more to be close to the enemy.

Melzo · April 2022

Of course you are right the necromancer is very tenacious. But in order to kill another player, you must have proper damage. Either play stunnecro or play synergy. If stamina has a choice, then mana necro does not have it. With the spirit upgrade, the necromancer has a much weaker combo. And you have to give up any defense in order to defeat the enemy. If earlier I ran with 5 pieces of heavy armor with a small amount of penetration and dealt synergy 8k damage. Now you have to give up any protection and get a lot of penetration and spd to deal that much damage. noncp bg

I tried many different assemblies and they are unlikely to help. The necromancer is limited by his attack repertoire. If you simply cannot make it a ranger. The magical necromancer lord of the dead fights with a mallet in melee...

Mannimarco will be proud of you

Urzigurumash · April 2022

Ok now I understand. I thought you were really upset about that Mystic Siphon change.

The synergy cooldown probably isn't being changed for Graverobber. The cost of Colossus probably isn't being reduced. So what in-class change would you like to free you of the necessity of Dark Convergence? A reduction to the delay of Remote Totem? Something else?

Otherwise, the class is possibly the most effective conveyer of both Eviscerate and Dizzy Swing, and a reasonably competitive conveyer of Crushing Shock and Lethal Arrow. So what do you want here, a buff to Crushing Shock?

Birds and Skulls are mostly PvE skills I guess, just like Trap Beast and Inner Rage. For years 2h was strictly a PvP weapon, not everything can always be equally competitive in every setting. Birds and Skulls have some limited applications in PvP, but of course most players agree their travel time is much too slow for most cases in PvP. Hardly the most pressing concern for MagCro or MagDen, in my opinion.

Melzo · April 2022

This class is currently only competitive due to the Dark Convergence set.

Skull is a useless skill. It was created in order for the necromancer to have the ability to spam. There are much better options in terms of overall ability. The skeleton is buffed by 50 percent of its running range, but only about 20 percent is reached.

Warden Update:
Deep Fissure (morph): This morph now also applies Minor Breach to enemies hit for the duration.~6ka+3ka=9ka

Haha you feel the difference in attitude???

The Skeleton Mage has no pet control, cannot be redirected to attack another player, deals extremely mediocre damage, and has no additional modifiers.
Siphon is absolutely useless in pvp. It was added so that in PvE the damage was comparable to other classes. And in pvp, the necromancer will lose in damage to any class. An update on the pts is needed for pve and then to make life easier for the tank.
The scythe deals 2-2.5k damage in pvp....
Bitter Harvest is only needed for the ult set.
Deaden Pain - Does not provide permanent protection and heals mediocrely. Extremely difficult to use. The effect is not saved, but resumed. For example, on the first use, you got 10 seconds used the second time, and you got 2 seconds, resetting the old 10 seconds. It is much easier and more profitable to take Mortal Coil.
Bone Totem is the worst control in the game. Useful only in a large group, and when attacked by 2-3 people - useless crap. If he treated standing or something else. Otherwise, why do I need these miserable 5 percent protection?
Ghostly Embrace - Extends control by 1 second. I have a question what is the difference between 5 seconds and 7 in pvp??
Useless in pve and pvp.
Empowering Grasp is only needed to buff the group and doesn't do a good job of crowd control. Try to beat and not to impose immunity on the enemy, but to kill him... The game is in the game.
Expunge is a useless skill. It takes up a whole slot, and if you get hit, you will die faster. Useful only if you leave the battle to clean up all the crap and restore resources. Or if you are a tank. But you can take a more adequate ability. Some would say useful ability. But I've only seen it on fat tanks in pvp and that's it... Just to gather a bunch of players... The only time this ability really came in handy was when Christopher made a stamcro + synergy build. quickly burst into battle, kill 1-2 and leave. Unfortunately, even this build with updates has become useless.

Result.
The Necromancer is a mediocre ranged fighter. Effective as a bomber or as a stumnecro. Due to their weak abilities and low variety, Necromancers are rarely played. As a result, everyone runs in the Dark Convergence set.

Many abilities deal extremely low damage. Either just weak or extremely situational.

Urzigurumash · April 2022

@Melzo

Sure I agree with most of your assessments there. Siphon actually does one have particular use as a conveyer of Azureblight in BGs. That's an extremely narrow use but for sure Necro is an excellent conveyer of this proc set in BGs - because of the unique passive buff to DoTs. Azureblight just lot a bit of power though since Poisons will no longer give stacks, and for me also the change to Carve was not great.

Definitely Deaden Pain lost a ton of value when they gave Major Protection to Flare, but, Necrotic Potency still gives Necro the most potential Ult Gen of any class, no? I wouldn't say that one build Christopher made one time is the only way Expunge has ever been useful in PvP but anyhow,

Of course you are right the strength of the class does not lie in class offensive skills outside of Blastbones, the Graverobber synergy, and Colossus.

But this has been the case for many classes for many years, all long time StamDK and StamSorc are quite familiar with this.

Because of the excellent passives, the excellent heals, and all the unique percentile buffs, the class remains a great skeleton to slap Dizzy Swing or Eviscerate on and brawl on par with any class.

Would you agree with that?

Urzigurumash · April 2022

As for the buff to Deep Fissure being inequitable, no I don't think so, Warden is severely lacking in burst healing compared to Necro (or DK, or Templar). Deep Fissure has been the single strongest burst skill in PvP since they took Breach off Sub Assault. Subs might be more "effective" damage since it fires twice, but one hit of Deep Fissure hits harder than one hit of Subs.

So I think it was a good adjustment for Deep Fissure, to me this is always a simple and reliable way to buff a class, take their strongest skill and make it a little stronger.

All in all both morphs of Shalks are better than Blastbones, like you say the thing has a mind of its own. But, again, Warden has trash self-healing, Necro has maybe the best, I think DK, Necro, and Templar are all very close here.

Mr_Stach · April 2022

Urzigurumash wrote: »

As for the buff to Deep Fissure being inequitable, no I don't think so, Warden is severely lacking in burst healing compared to Necro (or DK, or Templar). Deep Fissure has been the single strongest burst skill in PvP since they took Breach off Sub Assault. Subs might be more "effective" damage since it fires twice, but one hit of Deep Fissure hits harder than one hit of Subs.

So I think it was a good adjustment for Deep Fissure, to me this is always a simple and reliable way to buff a class, take their strongest skill and make it a little stronger.

All in all both morphs of Shalks are better than Blastbones, like you say the thing has a mind of its own. But, again, Warden has trash self-healing, Necro has maybe the best, I think DK, Necro, and Templar are all very close here.

That's some good points but where Warden actually struggles is not damage, they just keep buffing damage but forget that we need sustain and CC, but yeah buff our strongest Burst.... Again.

Urzigurumash · April 2022

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

As for the buff to Deep Fissure being inequitable, no I don't think so, Warden is severely lacking in burst healing compared to Necro (or DK, or Templar). Deep Fissure has been the single strongest burst skill in PvP since they took Breach off Sub Assault. Subs might be more "effective" damage since it fires twice, but one hit of Deep Fissure hits harder than one hit of Subs.

So I think it was a good adjustment for Deep Fissure, to me this is always a simple and reliable way to buff a class, take their strongest skill and make it a little stronger.

All in all both morphs of Shalks are better than Blastbones, like you say the thing has a mind of its own. But, again, Warden has trash self-healing, Necro has maybe the best, I think DK, Necro, and Templar are all very close here.

That's some good points but where Warden actually struggles is not damage, they just keep buffing damage but forget that we need sustain and CC, but yeah buff our strongest Burst.... Again.

Yeah you're not wrong. I always said though if DK needed buffs, just buff Leap.

But yeah we got our Sustain for sure and it did us quite well.

propertyOfUndefined · April 2022

Deaden Pain is actually the morph I was really hoping to see enhanced. It was fantastic back when major protection wasn’t so easy to come by, and also provided much higher % mitigation (believe it used to be 30%?). I’m not sure that anybody still uses this morph today.

Next on my list would probably be Agony Totem. I don’t think I’ve ever been hit by that synergy before.

Zezin · April 2022

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

Deaden Pain is actually the morph I was really hoping to see enhanced. It was fantastic back when major protection wasn’t so easy to come by, and also provided much higher % mitigation (believe it used to be 30%?). I’m not sure that anybody still uses this morph today.

Next on my list would probably be Agony Totem. I don’t think I’ve ever been hit by that synergy before.

It's good for PvE to use as a tank. Necro has no reliable CC and... Honestly I'm fine with that even as a Necro main, all classes should have weaknesses and strengths. The one thing I'd have liked to see was some source of prophecy/savagery and sorcery/brutality added to the class, I don mind use potions for PvE that most times but having it for more casual content and for PvP would be nice.

propertyOfUndefined · April 2022

Yeah. The class could definitely use those buffs. I do agree that the morph changes for the class seem very underwhelming. Hopefully we can expect more adjustments in the weeks to come before go-live.

Mr_Stach · April 2022

Stalking Blastbones is very boring, anything that deals more damage based on time traveled is just lazy. Maybe give it the Sub Assault treatment and proc again after it detonates or something

Melzo · April 2022

Blastbones is the only skill from which I still play a necromancer. Yes, he has mistakes, but problems. But this is the most epic skill in the game. From the funny updates of the necromancer, I am afraid that this skill will only worsen.

Melzo · April 2022

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Because of the excellent passives, the excellent heals, and all the unique percentile buffs, the class remains a great skeleton to slap Dizzy Swing or Eviscerate on and brawl on par with any class.

Would you agree with that?

You can make a necromancer using these abilities. The problem is that from the whole variety of the necromancer there will be only BlastBones on your panel. Are you really a necromancer ??? How are you different from Warden?

You can make it an archer + 50 percent of damage from Blastbones. But all your diversity begins with this ability and ends on it. By the way, an archer from a necromancer is much better than a distant fighter macro. But at the same time, for the year I saw 1-2 archers ...

Rasande_Robin · April 2022

"Birds and Skulls are mostly PvE skills I guess, just like Trap Beast and Inner Rage."

Skulls doesn't even work in PvE. Necro rotations are all about reapplying dots, since rapid rot. It will even make acid spray and/or unstable wall more potent to spam when all dots are up. But you need to reapply your first dot anyways so no need for spammable.

Maybe take power from unerving boneyard and move to skulls?

My personal wish is to keep the bouncing skull for both morphs. Stam skull will apply a dot and magicka skull will be a small AOE who's damage count as both fire and ice.

Urzigurumash · April 2022

Melzo wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Because of the excellent passives, the excellent heals, and all the unique percentile buffs, the class remains a great skeleton to slap Dizzy Swing or Eviscerate on and brawl on par with any class.

Would you agree with that?

You can make a necromancer using these abilities. The problem is that from the whole variety of the necromancer there will be only BlastBones on your panel. Are you really a necromancer ??? How are you different from Warden?

You can make it an archer + 50 percent of damage from Blastbones. But all your diversity begins with this ability and ends on it. By the way, an archer from a necromancer is much better than a distant fighter macro. But at the same time, for the year I saw 1-2 archers ...

I agree. I'm definitely open to the idea that melee might have an imbalanced advantage over ranged right now. Most classes definitely need to build pretty squishy to be effective at range, but of course you should have to build squishier for range than melee, just a question of how much squishier.

I think everyone agrees Warden and Necro could use some work to differentiate their offensive playstyle in PvP.

My points were more about why people defend Necro as a strong class, because it is quite strong with melee non-class skills, in fact a contender for the strongest.

Either Savagery/Prophecy or Brutality/Sorcery on Siphon would be nice, since it has that damage done bonus and is a really cool animation.

Melzo · April 2022

For me, it’s better to remake the skull so that there is an analogue of a dk whip or a sorc crystal. Maybe not so much. Give him a condition. Or at least something. Attachment to your pets. For example, after attacking a skull, pet damage is increased. Or while activin blastbones, this ability is replaced with melee. Change the ability mechanics. In a root to change the approach to this class.

And the Skeletal Mage + Empowering Grasp combo doesn't work very well in PvP. The Skeleton Mage deals 1200 damage every 2 seconds. This ability increases the damage dealt by the Skeleton Mage by 40%. 1200 * 40% = 1680. Increases 2 attacks. It's about 1000 damage....

These figures are approximate. You can increase spd and penetration. But you understood. Even if you accelerate the damage to 2-3 thousand, this is just ridiculous damage.

Death Scythe deals 2-2.5 thousand damage. I overclocked it to 3.5k. Due to the head of a dog and the ultimate from a dual weapon that increases damage by 6-36 percent.
You can increase even more to 4k. But you practically give up all protection. For ridiculous damage.

Of course, there are more effective abilities from the public ones. But is it worth just creating a necromancer in this case.

Urzigurumash · May 2022

Melzo wrote: »

For me, it’s better to remake the skull so that there is an analogue of a dk whip or a sorc crystal. Maybe not so much. Give him a condition. Or at least something. Attachment to your pets. For example, after attacking a skull, pet damage is increased. Or while activin blastbones, this ability is replaced with melee. Change the ability mechanics. In a root to change the approach to this class.

And the Skeletal Mage + Empowering Grasp combo doesn't work very well in PvP. The Skeleton Mage deals 1200 damage every 2 seconds. This ability increases the damage dealt by the Skeleton Mage by 40%. 1200 * 40% = 1680. Increases 2 attacks. It's about 1000 damage....

These figures are approximate. You can increase spd and penetration. But you understood. Even if you accelerate the damage to 2-3 thousand, this is just ridiculous damage.

Death Scythe deals 2-2.5 thousand damage. I overclocked it to 3.5k. Due to the head of a dog and the ultimate from a dual weapon that increases damage by 6-36 percent.
You can increase even more to 4k. But you practically give up all protection. For ridiculous damage.

Of course, there are more effective abilities from the public ones. But is it worth just creating a necromancer in this case.

Those are some good idea for Skulls, it would be really neat if this skill had a proc effect like Crystal or Whip. But Scythe is supposed to be the stacking skill for Necro I guess, we will see how the new Ruinous Scythe works out in PvP, so far you have always been better off using Brawler, Whirlwind, or Acid Spray for an AoE spammable on Stam in PvP.

Is it worth it to roll Necro to use public skills?

For Mag, compared to Warden, yes, indisputably, mostly because of better heals.

For Stam, compared to Sorc, probably in most cases. For Stam compared to DK or Warden, I think all 3 of these classes are very close, so close it's hard to say which is strongest altogether, but ultimately Necro probably does have the best healing/mitigation if only by a little over DK.

Of course, however, the Graverobber-based offense is really the strongest there ever has been in PvP.