Game Breaking Addons

AngersRevenge · April 2014

- Map Location Additions.
Incorrect. There are plenty of websites that do display this information. It's just a little more convienant to have it show up in game with an addon. People that use the addon will, or have used, a website that told them the exact thing the addon does.

As for botters, they will always find a way. ALWAYS.

- Dynamic Recipes.
Incorrect. See above example.

- Player Handler Visibility.
While I agree account security should be a major factor (especially since they have a game store to purchase in game items), the only people that can see your UserID as apposed to your character name is the people on your friends list and in your guilds. If you are worried about gold spammers or account hackers then you should review your friends and guilds that you are in.

Graogrimm · April 2014

AngersRevenge wrote: »

... the only people that can see your UserID as apposed to your character name is the people on your friends list and in your guilds. If you are worried about gold spammers or account hackers then you should review your friends and guilds that you are in.

Well, i can see the UserID in every mails i receive.

Bob · April 2014

Also if you watn to see the UserID you can just ignore the player and un-ignore him later. UserID is printed in the chat.

How do i learned this? By ignoring spam bots!

GrimR3 · April 2014

The api having coordinate information is not an issue because that information can be collected in other ways. The game client has to know where you are in order to draw you in the correct location on the screen and the server needs to know where you are so it can tell everyone else's game client. That information flows over a network to keep the game client and server in sync. So any properly motivated person could either extract the information from the network transmissions or extract it from the game's memory. I remember in DAOC there was a 3rd party application that would run on your system or a different system and intercept the communication between the client and server to display a radar like map for pvp or for use to bot.

Your problem with the alchemy addon is laughable. Its nothing I couldn't do with a printed chart or an app on my tablet or smartphone. Get over it.

I think the UserID being visible in game is a huge problem. It gives people with malicious intent half your login information. As Bob pointed out ignoring someone prints their UserID to the chat window because you ignore them on an account wide basis. I don't think its to far fetched that someone could create an addon that ignores then unignores everyone speaking in /zone chat or /say and collecting the UserID from the ignore message then storing said UserID in SavedVariables for export. It may explain why we are now seeing guild invites and in game mail from gold sellers starting to happen now. With the reports of people randomly logging in and seeing someone else's characters I think it makes the UserID issue that much bigger. With the bank resets, and account login problems it makes me think this game needs some serious security and database auditing.

I have used VPN applications like lowerping.com that allow you to route your connection through external servers around the globe to lower your ping to a game server or in my case I used it to get around the firewall the hotel I was at had to block gaming, the client only asked me for additional verification that I was me once. Even though during the course of several days I accessed the game from servers in chicago, new york and houston all while trying to bypass the hotel and get a lag free connection in game. Makes me wonder if a hacker tried to access my account from some other IP or geo location then the one I normally used would he even be challenged about it?

That experience coupled with the fact that a malicious user probably already has my UserID and many others' UserIDs I just don't trust the game's security in its current state.

Graogrimm · April 2014

Yesterday i have ignored some players to check if i can see their UserID, but there was only the charactername in chat and in the ignorelist, headed by a "@". Then i unignored them and again there was only the charactername in the chat window. I tried it ten times to be sure that they have not named their character like their UserID.

I'm pretty sure you cannot see the UserID by ignoring players, it just looks like a UserID. But you can see the UserID in ingame-emails.

AngersRevenge · April 2014

- Map Location Additions.
- Incorrect. There are plenty of websites that do display this information. It's just a little more convienant to have it show up in game with an addon. People that use the addon will, or have used, a website that told them the exact thing the addon does.

- Dynamic Recipes.
- Incorrect. See above example.

- Player Handler Visibility.
- While I agree account security should be a major factor (especially since they have a game store to purchase in game items), the only people that can see your UserID as apposed to your character name is the people on your friends list and in your guilds. If you are worried about gold spammers or account hackers then you should review your friends and guilds that you are in.

Ojustaboo · April 2014

HarvestMap is an interesting one. I have 4 skill points invested in keen eye on my main.

I started an alt in the same area and all the nodes already found on my main show up on my map, and I have zero need to invest in keen eye. If I'm looking for runes, I check my map, run to where they last were and while it's true they might have already been gathered by someone else, keen eye would not help as when you know where they spawn, you can see if they are there before you get close enough for keen eye to have taken effect (well this is true when you have one point spent in keen eye, I've never spent more).

However it's not that simple

I have a few circular runs i run to gather runes and i don't have to even look at the map anymore when i do so. Sure sometimes i glance at it occasionally when my alt moves to a different area but that's no different to looking at a node map on the internet (and is actually better as the internet would show me nodes I haven't yet found)

When I respec I will remove keen eye from my main, but that will be before I have been through half of just one alliance, HarvestMap won't help me discover new nodes it simply keeps track for me.

The reason I'm removing keen eye is because at first it was a handy skill to get to know the sort of places mats were and what say flax nodes looked like. But now I am used to it, I personally see keen eye as unneeded. I can spot a rune long before keen eye makes it glow.

So while I can understand the concerns, I do think they are unfounded as the person like me that loves crafting, will soon have our favourite spots regardless of HarvestMap and regardless of keen eye.

In days gone by, when playing a mmo where I needed to work out recipes or whatever, I would write them down. Addons that show for example which provisioning mats are used in which of my recipes simply save me the bother of writing. It gives me no advantage.

Treasure maps and skyshards, I choose not to use those addons as I like to discover them for myself, but there's nothing stopping me making a note of where they all are so an alt can get them quickly. The addons achieve the same.

So far I've found all skyshards in 3 areas and 7 Treasure maps without the need to look up or use an addon (there's huge hints in the journal as to skyshard locations anyway), one treasure map I simply couldn't find after hours of hunting so I looked it up and even then struggled to find it for a while and am convinced it's impossible for me to stand at the same place the map was drawn from.

But me choosing to play like that is my choice. Those that want to instantly know where the map locations or skyshards are, are gaining zero advantage over me, we both end up with the same, I could argue that with me getting so much enjoyment trying to find them myself, I am gaining more by not using the addons

Jeremy · April 2014

This is one reason I don't like add-ons. They can create all kinds of in-game balance issues, as well as increase your chances to have bugs or technical difficulties. Not to mention I've known people who have been hacked when trying to download them from the web.

They can be convenient. But I believe they cause more trouble than they are worth.

Plus, I like the social aspects of people sharing information among themselves as to where skyshards and other such discovery items and places are. I know I'm old-school about this and most people just use google. But I only use it as a last resort.

dietlime · April 2014

nzblustone wrote: »

Bots always find a way. Though I haven't encountered any in ESO yet. And if you don't want an addon showing you where all the nodes are, then don't use it. I don't and I have skillpoints in all the Keen Eye skills which I prefer. Just because it exists and some people can save a skillpoint or two as a result it doesn't mean you have to as well, be an individual, play your own way.

In the case of the alchemy one If you don't like an addon don't use it, it's quite simple.

The third one is countered by the player taking responsibility for their account security. Not downloading keygens, not using the same password as they use on any website or their email account. A new email specifically for ESO. There are so many things a player can do to ensure their account security that despite the fact that I would prefer my character name being shown/used ingame I have no concerns about my account safety as a result.

TLDR: Gamebreaking is such an exaggeration. Relax and enjoy the game.

Then I shouldn't have to spend skyshards to have the in-game highlighting should I? Since other players are allowed to highlight all nodes at any range for free yes?

Seerah · April 2014

dietlime wrote: »

Then I shouldn't have to spend skyshards to have the in-game highlighting should I? Since other players are allowed to highlight all nodes at any range for free yes?

Um... No. Only people who get the Keen Eye skill will have the nodes highlighted. /sigh

Kyosji · April 2014

Wait, doesn't the skyshard, nodes, and lorebook addons just place markers on your map? It's not reading anything from the game and putting it there, it's information collected by players and added to the add-on. Hardly game breaking as there is no difference in this and typing in "Hey Google, Where are all the Skyshards/Lore Books/Nodes in ESO?" The only thing the add-on does is make it easier than constantly alt tabbing to read it on a site. Not sure how this is

James_Keenan · April 2014

I can find lots of "game breaking" information on the internet too! Nerf the internet!

ckf12b14_ESO · April 2014

Just don't use the add-on? I don't understand the issue here? The add-ons are simply making life easier, they aren't destroying game balance. No add-on gives anyone a massive unfair advantage over anyone else. Anyone can google skyshard locations, it's just annoying to constantly tab out to look at the webpage.

zgrssd · April 2014

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

After reviewing the API, I think ESO Devs still need to deactivate some more features. Before going in, I just want to point how I define a "Game Breaking" addon... In reality it's very simple, when the pressence of a given modification disables a basic gameplay mechanic... Following this simple definition here go my suggestions:

There is somnething Called Concern Trolling listed on the WIkipedia Page for Trolling. Everytime somebody says the words "ESO is doomed because of X" I am thinking of that is my first reaction.
If that is an attempt at trolling, please use something not listed on Wikipedia.

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

- Map Location Additions. Like nodes, skyshards, etc.... This work by creating a high precission coordinate system. This is the prerequisite needed for automated navigation (ie bots). This information in game basically removes the needs to invest into some Skillpoints. Create Serverside checks to allow ONLY players that have invested skillpoints into node visibility to access "extended" information (And rework this "visibility" to offer variety for ppl dedicated to gathering... And establish limits on how much info a given set of Skillpoins yield). This is a very important decission as the "rate of gathering" have a lot of impact on the Economy of a game... And anything that eases the creation of Bots needs to be removed from any game ASAP, IMO.

- Dynamic Recipes. Alchemy discovery gameplay is atm disabled completely by another in game database addon... Devs should decide if they want to keep this aspect of gameplay or simply put all properties of plants visible.

Nothing that cannot be done with a Webbrowser. And cannot be just memorised/copied into a database.
I don't need Skyshard addons as I prefer findign them myself. Only before leaving an area do I use a webpage to show me were the stuff is.
And after two runs through the same area I have memorised 95% of the Skyshard positions anyway.

I agree that Addon functionality might be used to aid bots. Afaik they can access the internet and thus interprocess communication via loopback IP might be feasible.
So while a addon might not be a bot itself, it might be used to aid a bot's pathfinding/world reading ability. But that is nothing bot-programmers have not done without addons before. As long as a user can interact with the world, they can teach a bot to interact with the world. Looking at a gameworld is not such a special thing that it can be used as a Turing Test.

Also, those "bot are overrunnign the game" posts are really getting tiresome.
I only meet them at hours where every normal player for the server should be in bed, school or at work.
And I went out of my way to find them.

ragamerb16_ESO wrote: »

- Player Handler Visibility. This is not strictly game-breaking but a concern about security... Due to the poor decission of Zenimax to make publicly visible part of your login information (The account handler) coupled with how easy for an addon is to gather massive ammounts of player handlers, this will have an impact in the frequency of security related events. This is better handled by doing what any company concerned about the security of their custommers would do, which is having a username for login independent of the public handler any1 else sees but... As I think it's already too late for that, maybe controlling how addons access player handlers could help at diminishing this effect (It's hard to do... Because handlers are visible at very different points into the API, and the info is required for basic features to work, like invites, chat & guild functionality).

ESO uses a default "Accoutn Guard" System. Everytime you try to log in with from a different Computer* a one time code is send to your mail adress. No one time code, no interaction with the gameworld. So they already need to crack two account data (and find your mail adress under hundreds of mails servers).
While it does remove the need to guess the username too, default anti bruteforce systems (lock after X failed tries, account guard) should deal with any issues arising from those. I personall prefer the account ignore - it really shuts up spambots and trolls on account level.

As you can just get the account ID by ignoring someone via chat and run a default OCR programm, it's not something that needs any addon to figure out.

soulf666 · April 2014

Nerfbat API even more? That's insane. It is already in miserable state, even more nerf will just kill most addons. Keep nerfing and the only addon left will be ESO Theater for /facepalm emotespam.