A new (possibly) controversial account wide proposition.

Heartrage · April 2022

@Amottica
I get how the game could become easier with some of the changes i proposed. I would only want the rewards to reflect the reality that the quests are now only doable once per day and to not increase the difficulty to get some drops several times over. I wouldn’t want people spending months to get a drop they could have gotten by farming in a week on multiple alts. I’ll agree with you that the exp would probably be fine as is.

@janni
It’s all good, I didn’t expect as many people to be attached to doing the same daily on multiple characters. Personally, I feel like the game forces me to repeat the same thing over and over again to progress and I can’t help feeling like it’s a cheap way to make me spend more time on the game than i need to.

Arunei · April 2022

No.

Just because there are people who can't control their urges to do certain things doesn't mean you take those options away from the people who enjoy doing them. It's like saying no one should be allowed to play games for more than an hour a day because some people will only play games instead of taking care of other responsibilities. People who are compelled to doing certain tasks shouldn't impact the ability to do them for others.

As for rewards, they're fine. People are working for them, it isn't as though they're just falling from the sky. Loading in and out of characters is also something you'll need to do regardless of dailies, as different people usually have alts that do different things. People will probably regularly swap between a crafter, a PvP character, a PvE character, and so on.

You also decrease replayability of the game for a lot of people by reducing them to one daily per account. You limit people being able to run multiple random dungeons for their Transmute Crystals and Undaunted Keys (as well as making it MUCH harder to level Undaunted on numerous characters if you can only do the Pledges once a day per account).

There's no reason to take away how others enjoy the game because of people who burn themselves out because they feel compelled to doing certain things all the time. Don't punish everyone for people who refuse to take breaks from whatever they're doing.

katanagirl1 · April 2022

This is in theory a good idea, but...

I worked with a guy who had a saying that described this very situation. You want to bring everyone up to an average value for some thing. Instead, everyone who is above that value gets squashed down to the average instead. I can see that happening based on the poor drop rates we now have compared to the past and the typically lesser rewards we now have.

JoStoic · April 2022

If this were to happen, (and I'm ok with it in theory) the reward coffers would also have to drop multiple set pieces and small stacks of the style material.

Woozywyvern · April 2022

I think after AWA, this would be the last nail in the coffin for alts for a lot of people.

DarcyMardin · April 2022

No thanks. AWA as it’s been instituted is bad enough.

Cardhwion · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

I think that timers for quests, drops and rewards should be account wide with proportional better rewards. In other words, we shouldn't be able to repeat the same dailies on each one of our characters.

Here are my reasons:

1- Players will do what is most efficient even if it ends up being unfun and unsatisfying.

2- It's not fun to do the same quest over and over on all or many alts every day to farm rewards. The game becomes a chore.

3- Logging in and out of characters is not fun and ends up taking a lot of play time.

4- Some daily quests rewards have to be lesser to ensure the rarity of items. The lesser rewards force you to redo dailies on multiple characters to get the rare rewards. It would be better to only be able to do a daily once per day for 30% odds of getting an item rather than do the daily 10 times with a 5% odds each time.

5- Hirelings force you to log in and out of your characters and fill up your mailbox.

6- By making daily quests unrepeatable on alts, grinding new content's daily quest will be limited to once a day which would make exploring the rest of the new content easier for the grinders.

7- There are enough daily content in the game to occupy most if not all of a day of playing eso by only doing the daily content.

8- (Allegedly) Some daily coffers have secret drop timers that prevent the drop of rare items for a while once one is looted. It's probably to reduce the problem of people doing the same quest on a lot of characters and flooding the market with items. However, it's not explained in the game so most players probably still loot the coffers when they can't get the rare items and still farm those quests on many alts. We shouldn't have to keep track of these either to maximise our odds of getting rare items.

9- (Allegedly) There seems to be timers for rare furnishing plans and other drops in the game tied to characters. This is probably to ensure a more consistent and satisfying drop experience for players. However, to farm those items most efficiently, players will log in and log out of characters after they drop items that start these timers and rotate their alts to always be able to loot these items. Farming shouldn't involve logging in and out of characters.

10- (Unconfirmed) Holding the information of which characters have done which daily activities and have received their hireling rewards, processing all the timers and processing all the log in and log out of characters probably use a non insignificant amount of server ressources.

My solutions:

1- Make daily quests doable only once per account per day.

2- Increase daily quest rewards for exp, gold, odds and number of rare items, skill lines experience and companion reputation.

3- Add new different ways of getting skill line experience and companion reputation.

4- Make hirelings account wide so that we can log in on the character we want to play for the evening and so that we receive only one message per hireling type that includes the rewards for all our characters hirelings from that log in.

5- Remove the daily coffers timers, the daily quest new limit will control rare drop instead.

6- Remove the 50 daily quest cap. We should be able to do all our daily on one character if we want to.

7- Make the loot timers account wide or remove them.

The unresolved:

1- This doesn't prevent people from creating additional accounts to farm. I think that most probably won't because of the added difficulty and of the cost but : Players will do what is most efficient even if it ends up being unfun and unsatisfying.

2- There are probably some people that actually enjoy repeating the same daily quest on all their characters. I think they are a minority and that, of this minority, most will still find enjoyment from doing other things in the game.

3- There are probably people that will think it breaks roleplay. I would argue that if a character dealt with a quest, it make sense from a roleplay POV that the quest wouldn't be offered again on the same day.

What do you guys think?

In short: Nope. If someone wants to run dailies on 16 toons, he can. It's his fun, not yours. If someone wants to ignore all dailies, it is also his fun not yours. If a player decides to do something, it is not for you to decide that this is wrong and needs changed, because you think it is unfun.

Ragnork · April 2022

Bad idea. Feels like you would feel more at home in another game. Possibly a single player game.

robwolf666 · April 2022

OP - No...

Cardhwion · April 2022

JoStoic wrote: »

If this were to happen, (and I'm ok with it in theory) the reward coffers would also have to drop multiple set pieces and small stacks of the style material.

Small stacks would not be enough. If someone were to run Alinor dailies on 10 toons per day, doing both dailies available, he'd earm 20 Culanda Lacquer per day. I doubt we'd get close to that in one reward box.

redlink1979 · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

(...) we shouldn't be able to repeat the same dailies on each one of our characters.(...)

No to all the changes purposed. If you don't like the daily quests in their current format, don't do them.

LadyLethalla · April 2022

As I work full time - so I have limited time to play - I do the dailies that are the quickest to complete, on all my characters. So no... thanks.

Meiox · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

As for the pledges, this is a fair critique. Pledges and the first random group tools should be exempted from this.

Why?
Its against your first point, if your idea doesn't fit for pledges and random group dungeons then it will also not fit for the rest of the dailies.

Heartrage · April 2022

@Meiox
Janni’s point that it would affect dungeon queuing’s time does not apply to other dailies that do not involve queuing. Daily writs, daily delve and daily world bosses quest are absolutely different from pledges in this aspect.

@LadyLethalla
I also work full time. For me, though, I can’t say that i enjoy spending all my limited play time doing the same thing again and again because the rewards from the dailies have been decided with the expectation that we would do them many times per day.

With that said, peoples on the forum seem to disagree with me and enjoy doing this. I think it’s good that we have such a discussion even if the majority simply reject the idea. I, obviously, wouldn’t want want ZOS to implement this solution if the majority doesn’t like it(as it seems in the current thread.

Still, I would like ZOS to take steps for players to not feel as forced to farm on multiple alts. Also, nobody can convince me that login in and out of every characters to get hirelings mats is fine. I spent so much time getting the skyshards and leveling my 18 characters crafting. I shouldn’t have to spend more of my game time waiting for my characters to log in and log out. That’s not gameplay.

tmbrinks · April 2022

You know all those who dismissed arguments as using "Slippery Slope"' logical fallacies.

This is what we were talking about. The further degradation of our alt characters that is now being "asked" for after they got greatly reduced by AwA already.

Kiralyn2000 · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

Still, I would like ZOS to take steps for players to not feel as forced to farm on multiple alts. Also, nobody can convince me that login in and out of every characters to get hirelings mats is fine. I spent so much time getting the skyshards and leveling my 18 characters crafting. I shouldn’t have to spend more of my game time waiting for my characters to log in and log out. That’s not gameplay.

So if you find it so awful, why would you choose to do it? Of course, if you choose not to do something because you don't enjoy it, you shouldn't get the rewards from that thing.

edit: there's nothing "forcing" you to do these things but you.

(just like I don't want to do dungeons or PvP, so I don't. And I don't expect to get dungeon or PvP rewards, because why would I?)

Personally, I found opening hireling mails to be annoying and just added clutter. So when one of the "cheap respec" times came around, I got rid of all the hireling passives on my characters. I still like to do crafting writs from time to time. (when I get burnt out on it, I stop doing them for a time.)

So, no - I don't think that people should just be able to do one daily and be gifted (drops X number of alts). That's boring, and lazy, and overly rewards people who buy extra character slots (if you want the rewards of 18 characters, do 18x dailies/dungeons/whichever activities.)

alberichtano · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

@Blinx @alberichtano
I wasn’t aware of this achievement. Obviously, I think that it should be changed. Even currently, this sounds bad.

It is a post-starter quest to Murkmire that is placed in Shadowfen. You do dailies to help a group of archeologists in Murkmire with their preparations (and/or supply lines if you already started the Murkmire area) through making daily quests.

Originally you could do six daily quests from the same questgiver, which were all different quests. This was tedious, but okey since it was the only Achievement that required you to do 150 dailies (most are max 30). But then they cut it to just one daily last year (if memory serves correctly), so now it takes 150 days to get that achievement. Perhaps the only achievement I am really glad got made as an account one.

Epona222 · April 2022

Right, let's just remove replayability completely. Make all the characters that lots of us have completely useless and unable to actually play the game once the story quests are finished. Ensure they have nothing to do.

Perhaps put how long I stay logged in and play on some sort of daily timer to limit the amount of fun I have in game each day while you're at it.

You know, because if I have more time to play the game than someone else, that is somehow unfair and I should be prevented from getting additional rewards each day.

This sounds like a great idea if you want to kill ESO.

Veinblood1965 · April 2022

haelgaan wrote: »

why take away everyone else's gameplay? you don't enjoy it, don't do it.

I thought the same thing.

wolfie1.0. · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

@wolfie1.0.
There’s a hole in your logic. From one hand you say that it would increase your output and from the other you say that stuff will be rarer? Do I misunderstand?

The two events are not mutually exclusive. If you limit each player to 1 crafting daily per type per account per day instead of the per character restriction in place now, then overall production game wide will decrease.

The only limiting factor for me is time when it comes to these activities. With my current schedule I can on average do 60ish of these and still have a few minutes to do other content 70 to 100 if I dedicate just to this activity. In theory I could do over 300 per day, if I have the time. Which I don't. I have to choose to be time efficient with my dailies in order to come close to the production rate of someone with a single account on a per account basis

If you reduce dailies to a per account interaction then the time commitment to them for the whole account is reduced per account as well as overall production. However, because I have many accounts I can use that time saved to complete more of these quests. This means that my personal production in relation to what someone who just has a single account would increase.

To demonstrate this. You know how ZOS gives out gold as daily login rewards? The last time they gave us 100k gold I put 3 million in my bank. All I had to do was login. If it worked like seals of endeavors instead and I had to go kill 2000 of X creatures to get that gold I wouldn't have gotten nearly as much, because like I said time is the limiting factor.

wolfie1.0. · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

@Meiox
Janni’s point that it would affect dungeon queuing’s time does not apply to other dailies that do not involve queuing. Daily writs, daily delve and daily world bosses quest are absolutely different from pledges in this aspect.

@LadyLethalla
I also work full time. For me, though, I can’t say that i enjoy spending all my limited play time doing the same thing again and again because the rewards from the dailies have been decided with the expectation that we would do them many times per day.

With that said, peoples on the forum seem to disagree with me and enjoy doing this. I think it’s good that we have such a discussion even if the majority simply reject the idea. I, obviously, wouldn’t want want ZOS to implement this solution if the majority doesn’t like it(as it seems in the current thread.

Still, I would like ZOS to take steps for players to not feel as forced to farm on multiple alts. Also, nobody can convince me that login in and out of every characters to get hirelings mats is fine. I spent so much time getting the skyshards and leveling my 18 characters crafting. I shouldn’t have to spend more of my game time waiting for my characters to log in and log out. That’s not gameplay.

What would you rather have between these two options:

be able to do an action 18 times a day spending n time for x many days for y chance at obtaining z

Or

be able to do an action 1 time a day spending n time for x many days for y chance at obtaining z

In both instances your spending the same amount of time doing the same activity but the odds of getting the desired outcome is extended over a longer period of time. The only way to shorten the second time frame is either with good rng or to significantly increase returns.

SerafinaWaterstar · April 2022

Please no.

You do remember this is a game & you don’t actually *have* to do any of this?

And just because you don’t like it/burn out, don’t then try & stop it for others.

Just stop doing the bits you don’t like & leave it at that. Easy.

(And please don’t bring ‘performance improvement’ as a reason. As it would have absolutely no effect.)

DMuehlhausen · April 2022

Well he did put controversial in the title at least...

Heartrage · April 2022

@wolfie1.0.
Ok, i agree with this if rewards are not increased to take into account the once per account. People like you wouldn’t be affected while people that do many writs on one account wouldn’t produce as much.

With an adjustment, however, the production of people who didn’t do many writs would also increase and we would probably also see more players be willing to do writs which would counteract the rarity you talk about.

Tbh, though, after seeing how passionate people are about their dailies, i think an equivalent to events "first golden box of the day" with increased drop rates would probably be better than my initial idea.

Out of curiosity, how much time does it take you to do one character’s writ? I estimate that it takes me about 3m20s per character.

Sylvermynx · April 2022

I can get through one character in under 3 minutes if I don't have to mess around much with selling/banking. But I no longer do daily writs on every character - I limit it to 3 or 4 per account (two accounts, both PC megaservers).

Heartrage · April 2022

@wolfie1.0.
I see you made a new post. I understand that. I think I stated many times that the rewards should be increased if we were limited to one time per day.

ZOS wants us to keep playing and never run out of stuff to get. They probably make the drop rate based on the fact that, on average, players will complete a certain daily a set amount of time and that they would get, on average, a certain percentage of the drops by the time new content is added.

wolfie1.0. · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

@wolfie1.0.
Ok, i agree with this if rewards are not increased to take into account the once per account. People like you wouldn’t be affected while people that do many writs on one account wouldn’t produce as much.

With an adjustment, however, the production of people who didn’t do many writs would also increase and we would probably also see more players be willing to do writs which would counteract the rarity you talk about.

Tbh, though, after seeing how passionate people are about their dailies, i think an equivalent to events "first golden box of the day" with increased drop rates would probably be better than my initial idea.

Out of curiosity, how much time does it take you to do one character’s writ? I estimate that it takes me about 3m20s per character.

Depends on how prepared I am and where the character is dropped. Fastest time with items precrafted is around 60 seconds with banking assistant in vivec or alinor. If I need to craft about 3 minutes. It takes 5 to 6 minutes on average to character swap.

wolfie1.0. · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

@wolfie1.0.
I see you made a new post. I understand that. I think I stated many times that the rewards should be increased if we were limited to one time per day.

ZOS wants us to keep playing and never run out of stuff to get. They probably make the drop rate based on the fact that, on average, players will complete a certain daily a set amount of time and that they would get, on average, a certain percentage of the drops by the time new content is added.

Just so I understand what your saying then. You want to increase the results of reward coffers by a factor of 18 but reduce the time it takes to obtain the equivalent ( under current settings in live) by a factor of 18 as well?

Heartrage · April 2022

@wolfie1.0.
I don’t think it would be 18 times, the increased drop that would make sense would probably be reached by using meta data that ZOS would have access to. I can’t say by how much it should be as i don’t have access to these numbers.

Heartrage · April 2022

@wolfie1.0.
This number might, though, be 18 times if every players were expected to be doing the daily on their 18 characters every day. However, I doubt that ZOS expect that much of their player base.