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Do you feel needed as a Healer?
FeedbackOnly
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When if not or if yes?
Edited by FeedbackOnly on April 3, 2022 3:01PM Do you feel needed as a Healer? 58 votes
Yes
39%
23 votes
No
34%
20 votes
Other
25%
15 votes
0
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SpiritKitten✭✭✭✭I only feel needed in certain situations, and that is why I have a normal dungeon build which is back bar dps.0 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SpiritKitten wrote: »I only feel needed in certain situations, and that is why I have a normal dungeon build which is back bar dps.
What kind of situations0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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I mean, it all depends on who your group mates are. For hard content in a meta group, I imagine that the DDs and tank rely on healers for buffs, healing and sustain synergies. Maybe In PvP groups of 4 or larger as well.FeedbackOnly wrote: »SpiritKitten wrote: »I only feel needed in certain situations, and that is why I have a normal dungeon build which is back bar dps.
What kind of situations
I mostly PUG (anything except vet DLC trials). I don't play healers myself. Do I like or rely on being healed? Mostly no. Do I rely on them for sustain synergies: Only a little bit. I find healers useful in trials, (hard mode) vet DLC dungeons, and possibly vBRP, which I have not yet tried. For everything else I don't really need them. For vDSA, non-DLC vet dungeons, normal dungeons, world bosses: No. I welcome damage buffs or the healer doing some active damage in those cases.PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
PC NA (EP): Magicka NB0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭I main a healer and it is definitely situational as to whether I'm actually "needed" or not.
Normal content? Basically not needed. Can 4 DPS or 3DPS 1 Off Tank (mag tank with heals) all the content.
Normal trials? Can get away with just 1 healer.
Vet dungeons? Again, most dungeons can be 3 DPS'd with 1 Offtank, except for very few encounters where the tank is so overwhelmed that it just goes better to have a dedicated healer.
Vet Trials - Yes.
That's basically the life of a healer though. Underused and underappreciated for the most part.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PUG dungeons - It varies dramatically based on how experienced my teammates are.4 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you can take the worries of self healing off the other players shoulders so they can focus fully on their own roles, then you will always be needed.CP1,900+ Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!3 -
krachall✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you play a healer but avoid the game's harder content (how many LFG's for pledges do you see that only run vet for base game dungeons) then it's your own fault.
Run less base game content, and more HM DLC content and you'll be in heavy demand.0 -
SpiritKitten✭✭✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »SpiritKitten wrote: »I only feel needed in certain situations, and that is why I have a normal dungeon build which is back bar dps.
What kind of situations
vet dungeons, trials, dungeon runs with low level newbies, duoing DLC dungeons0 -
Dem_kitkats1✭✭✭✭Like others have noted, it definitely depends on the situation. I mostly run in PUGs so my experience is probably different than those who have premade groups. I'm sure with a coordinated group healer comps would change based on what is needed for the group, therefore giving healers more of a specified role. In PUGs however, I don't feel all that needed for most content.
I find that DPS, as well as tanks, come into content being very self reliant in regards to their healing. Since healing goes hand in hand with damage, DPS just naturally have high healing tooltips to begin with, so with even one self heal on hand they can heal themselves quite a bit, and as a healer, I just top them up more than anything. I also find that in PUGs players come into dungeons well prepared with their own self healing kits because more often than not they are running with fake supports that they cannot rely on for survival, and being built for solo survivability is just good for all content, so most PUG players build themselves in this direction. Thus, rendering the true healer support role redundant.
So, IMO, healers are not needed for normal dungeons, I would also argue that in most VHM dungeons you could still get a way with not having a healer. Depending on the group, it might be a little more difficult, but definitely still doable. In trials this changes, but not necessarily in regards to actual healing. Healers are more important for buffing, as well as topping up heals. Again in PUGs, players are pretty self reliant with their own healing. In Vet trials, that is when good healers are absolutely needed, but that's not a lot of content if you really enjoying playing pure support roles. It also makes it difficult for players really learn the proper techniques and rotations, needed for end game content.Edited by Dem_kitkats1 on April 4, 2022 2:05PM2 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭Being healer, i usually run first into groups of mobs and lay down my DOTs, can also tank bosses in non-dlc vets. DDS are needed as they kill things. Tank can be very useful, in support sets, with pierce armor and pull, or it can be a 5th column with powerful assault, ebon armory and staffs.
This, also sets that buff team. When playing on my tank, i have a powerful self heal and die last. When on my DD, i can die in 2 hits. If healer is not stacking HoTs (healing reactively, not proactively) then i feel like i need to rely on myself for heals.If you can take the worries of self healing off the other players shoulders so they can focus fully on their own roles, then you will always be needed.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, who else is going to outDPS the DPS and provide heals for the group?PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Wandering_Immigrant✭✭✭✭I would say I don't always feel needed, but I always feel useful and I sometimes feel needed. It depends on content and group of course, but even in situations where I'm not particularly needed for healing I'm still keeping up Radiating Regen to proc SPC and casting combat prayer on any DPS not running around like they have ants in their pants or standing at max distance. I'm also applying multiple DoTs to add damage, I'm helping with sustain through multiple sources and I'm casting whatever I need to for pocing my class specific minor buff.
By doing what I'm supposed to do regardless of content I'm also putting the DPS at ease so they can focus on maximizing their damage. I mostly pug so I never know what I'm gonna get in a group, likewise my groups never know what they're going to get in a healer. It's pretty noticeable though when a DPS starts a run off healing themselves every time they take damage and then after the first couple of pulls stops healing themselves all together.2 -
WordsOfPower✭✭✭The main issues are these :
1. In PUG PvE, too often the mentality is "these are activities my solo character can do with other people to help me get gear I want", so you end up either with DDs that can take care of themselves, or DDs wearing Pale Order, or noobs who really can't deal much damage, so you end up putting on your DD spec not to be too bored.
2. In organised PvE, healers are treated like buffs on legs. There are three categories of 'healer sets' in this game. The first is real healer sets, which boost healing and healer-applied buffs and debuffs. The second are borderline sets like SPC, which trigger from heals. The third, far more present in the game after 2017 than before it (I noticed this huge change by disappearing from the game for 2 years) are buff sets, which used to be worn by DDs, but were slung at the lowly healers thereafter, since they were 'just support'. Some raid leaders will tell healers to wear Ebon, or weird *** like Zen/MK. If you go along with this nonsense, you are adding to the problem, not helping people escape it.
3. In all PvE, gameplay is not sufficiently dangerous to require much intelligence about healing. It's mostly on a rotation. You're HPSing in a similar way to DDs parsing. It's not adequately reactive. There are exceptions: you could find yourself in vDoM HM execute phase dodging meteors and walls, trying to put Combat Prayer on the poor melee DDs nuking the coloured orbs, while occasionally glancing at the tank to make sure he gets shards to help him sustain his dodge rolls. But the problem is that a team who are capable of clearing this content are probably not much in need of healing anyway. And since I mentioned this dungeon, ZoS introduced mechanics that actually negate healing into their dungeons and trials.
4. In PvP, healers used to be super useful but now are largely irrelevant outside of ballgroups, which are horrible to begin with. Because huge selfheals are the norm. When I heal in BGs, regardless of how many points of healing I deliver, I never really feel like it made much difference because if I did 1m healing, 80% of it was probably overhealing. There is more chance of reactive challenges because of the nature of PvP, but the sheer weight of HoTs in current meta has heavily reduced that.
TLDR: when I mained healers in 2017 I felt I made a decent difference. I stopped last year because I honestly might as well just do damage and throw out a buff here or there.4 -
sidious00✭✭✭I only pug normal dungeons. I'll ask at the beginning whether they want me to heal or switch to DD. Most times the answer is switch.0
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Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭In normal dungeons and similar you don't need a healer for the most part unless your party is full of lowlevel characters, bad specced DDs and/ or newbies. But that's to be expected.
The real deal is knowing by yourself when you're needed as full heal or when to switch to support and use damage buffing sets and skills or deal damage too."I don't know who you are, but i will find you and i will rob you." - Liam Thiefsson0 -
SaintJohnHM✭✭✭✭I only DPS, but I prefer to have healers in my dungeon trifecta/HM groups. It's typically more fun for me to play in a well-rounded group rather than 3dps, and having a healer makes it go smoother.- Casual PVE player PC/NA
- Tank CP2400 'Sugar-Flame'
- I've completed all the dungeon trifectas. Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Immortal Redeemer, and looking for nice folks to complete more trial achieves with.
- I make music: http://www.moonghostband.com.
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drsalvation✭✭✭✭✭WordsOfPower wrote: »The main issues are these :
1. In PUG PvE, too often the mentality is "these are activities my solo character can do with other people to help me get gear I want", so you end up either with DDs that can take care of themselves, or DDs wearing Pale Order, or noobs who really can't deal much damage, so you end up putting on your DD spec not to be too bored.
2. In organised PvE, healers are treated like buffs on legs. There are three categories of 'healer sets' in this game. The first is real healer sets, which boost healing and healer-applied buffs and debuffs. The second are borderline sets like SPC, which trigger from heals. The third, far more present in the game after 2017 than before it (I noticed this huge change by disappearing from the game for 2 years) are buff sets, which used to be worn by DDs, but were slung at the lowly healers thereafter, since they were 'just support'. Some raid leaders will tell healers to wear Ebon, or weird *** like Zen/MK. If you go along with this nonsense, you are adding to the problem, not helping people escape it.
3. In all PvE, gameplay is not sufficiently dangerous to require much intelligence about healing. It's mostly on a rotation. You're HPSing in a similar way to DDs parsing. It's not adequately reactive. There are exceptions: you could find yourself in vDoM HM execute phase dodging meteors and walls, trying to put Combat Prayer on the poor melee DDs nuking the coloured orbs, while occasionally glancing at the tank to make sure he gets shards to help him sustain his dodge rolls. But the problem is that a team who are capable of clearing this content are probably not much in need of healing anyway. And since I mentioned this dungeon, ZoS introduced mechanics that actually negate healing into their dungeons and trials.
4. In PvP, healers used to be super useful but now are largely irrelevant outside of ballgroups, which are horrible to begin with. Because huge selfheals are the norm. When I heal in BGs, regardless of how many points of healing I deliver, I never really feel like it made much difference because if I did 1m healing, 80% of it was probably overhealing. There is more chance of reactive challenges because of the nature of PvP, but the sheer weight of HoTs in current meta has heavily reduced that.
TLDR: when I mained healers in 2017 I felt I made a decent difference. I stopped last year because I honestly might as well just do damage and throw out a buff here or there.
Exactly this!
I only voted other because I think this topic is more related to support roles and not specifically healers.
I used to tank since the game released on consoles until the last couple of months BEFORE armory came.
And in the perspective of tanks:
1 - Tanks can't even deal any significant damage so they can't escape the boredom of just hanging around without getting chastised for "not tanking" even tho fake tanks have proved over and over again that tanks are unnecessary.
2 - Tanks are also buffs on legs but also meat shields. It has come to a toxic mentality of calling any tank who isn't wearing sets that buff up the whole group as "selfish" just because I decided I wanted to have some fun, especially because why in heck's name does the 90K DPS need to do MORE damage?
3 - In areas that aren't dungeons and trials, tanks just take unnecessarily long to kill anything basic. With my DPS build, it takes me less than 3 seconds to kill a basic group of monsters, with my tank, it takes me around 12 seconds. That's not necessarily a bad thing per-se, but the fact that there's absolutely no skills, no sets, nothing that would allow tanks to deal any sort of damage (especially since sword and shield's power bash is still pandering for DPS for some dumb reason when it should've been a tank's retribution skill to do massive burst damage after blocking, I made a thread about it here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7565106#Comment_7565106 ) But to add to that point I highlighted in bold text, dungeon mechanics will one-shot tanks who don't follow said mechanics either. Which completely ruins any reasons to make well-optimized tanks, and even makes "selfish" tank builds even more worthless. They REALLY want us to keep holding the DD's sweaty towels and wipe our faces with them.
4 - There's really no use for tanks in PvP at all. Simply none. Objective battlegrounds are still played as deathmatches with extra steps, and then you have some popular youtubers spreading propaganda that "players that don't die in PvP are bad"
Any skill a tank can cast to buff defenses, is just as effective as any other person casting same skills. And even so, their 'defense' isn't even noticeable unless is the shield from siege weapons.
Supporting roles are in life support and the introduction of Armory might just be the nail in the coffin. "Ditch your support role and switch to the glorious DD build to enjoy 100% of the game"
Edited by drsalvation on April 10, 2022 1:38AM2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Of course, However, depending on the content, the definition of the role of the healer varies. Less challenging content the healer is 50/50. This is not WoW where roles are very much hardcoded and builds should follow suit.0 -
CharlieFreak✭✭✭Wandering_Immigrant wrote: »I would say I don't always feel needed, but I always feel useful and I sometimes feel needed. It depends on content and group of course, but even in situations where I'm not particularly needed for healing I'm still keeping up Radiating Regen to proc SPC and casting combat prayer on any DPS not running around like they have ants in their pants or standing at max distance. I'm also applying multiple DoTs to add damage, I'm helping with sustain through multiple sources and I'm casting whatever I need to for pocing my class specific minor buff.
By doing what I'm supposed to do regardless of content I'm also putting the DPS at ease so they can focus on maximizing their damage. I mostly pug so I never know what I'm gonna get in a group, likewise my groups never know what they're going to get in a healer. It's pretty noticeable though when a DPS starts a run off healing themselves every time they take damage and then after the first couple of pulls stops healing themselves all together.
I played my Templar as healer for quite some time, and eventually started giving people the option at the start - "You guys want me to DPS or heal, or a little of both?" 7 times out of 10, they want me to DPS. I've had tanks tell me several times "I don't require healing, just DPS please".
The way I see it, the problem with healing is that most 'solo' spec DDs can handle themselves. The way this game is currently designed, you either take very little damage that you can easily deal with yourself, OR you miss a mechanic and get one-shotted. There doesn't seem to be much in between.
I got asked to heal vScalecaller Peak awhile back. I agreed, and after making heroic efforts to save a DPS who wasn't playing very well, I realized that he was using Pale Order. So I asked him if he forgot to remove it and he said he didn't forget, and won't remove it. The other DPS echoed the same sentiment. In the end, all I did was keep a circle on the tank, elemental drain and wall, and keeping minor sorcery/combat prayer up. Felt rather pointless and silly, like a buffbot.
Like you said, most DPS won't even get in position to catch combat prayer/orb/shards and running around like lunatics 10 meters behind me so I have to constantly turn around to check on them and buff them individually. If I ask them to please stand in front of me and behind the boss, they get insulted.
After awhile, I just gave up and ditched my healer spec altogether.2 -
DizzyMac✭✭✭I find that when i heal dungeons, the common consensus is that healers aren't needed and are pointless in that environment -- right up until you dont drop that extra buff or someone dies.. then everything is the healer's fault for not doing their job instead of being an extra DDEdited by DizzyMac on April 11, 2022 9:52AM1
