Why arent you addressing that most of the botting is occurring due to game scripting for addons
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WhiteQueen✭✭✭
[/quote]
I give up. Its like talking to a def child, then trying sign language only to realize they are blind too....Yep, still don't know what an addon is b
Selective quoting sir. This is what I wrote.add ons that would give players an advantage that normally is restricted by the API.
.....
Did I make myself clear? Or do you still think that I think that add ons are responsible for bots? I certainly hope not.
Which are you making clear?
That addons "give players an advantage that normally is restricted by the API"
or that they Don't?
You seem to be claiming both.
Addons - are components added to the UI through the API given by Zenimax, and are limited to what it allows.
Anything that does something NOT allowed by that API, is not an addon, it is a Hack - and has No Reason to use the API.
Hacks <> Addons
Hacks allow things not allowed.
Addons don't.
''Security - I simply think there needs to be more security that can sniff out bad add ons that would give players an advantage that normally is restricted by the API.''
So the add ons that were allowed before the API restrictions are now automatically hacks? I think not. They are simply restricted add ons now. There are new ones that could be considered hacks, and yes, there needs to be more security against those.
If you are going to quote me, quote the complete statement.
SNIPPED
Enjoy your game. And please try a communications class.....
Wow, are you talking to Helen Keller? Nobel Peace prize winner and all-around awesomesauce?Edited by WhiteQueen on April 30, 2014 8:45PM0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭*fetches a guitar*
Kumbay ya, my Love, kumbay ya;
Kumbay ya, my Lord, kumbay ya;
Kumbay ya, my Lord, kumbay ya,
O Lord, kumbay ya.
Wait, what was this thread about again? And why does the forum censor this song, lol.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on April 30, 2014 8:46PM0 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭@
Blackwolfe5 wrote: »*fetches a guitar*
Kumbay ya, my Love, kumbay ya;
Kumbay ya, my Lord, kumbay ya;
Kumbay ya, my Lord, kumbay ya,
O Lord, kumbay ya.
Wait, what was this thread about again? And why does the forum censor this song, lol.
Coz people forgot how to spell "come". Also, it's "Kumbaya."
Edited by WhiteQueen on April 30, 2014 8:48PM0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Oh I figured pretty quick why it was censored. Also, I just copied it from wikipedia :P1
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Rantog✭✭✭✭
Because I don't want to spam the board.Selective quoting sir.''Security - I simply think there needs to be more security that can sniff out bad add ons that would give players an advantage that normally is restricted by the API.''
So the add ons that were allowed before the API restrictions are now automatically hacks? I think not. They are simply restricted add ons now. There are new ones that could be considered hacks, and yes, there needs to be more security against those.
You were asked by someone about your history in Programming, and you mistook it for them putting words in your mouth. That wasn't why they asked.
They asked because you keep making statements that demonstrate a lack of comprehension with regard to the concepts and terms being used in this discussion.
Eg- old addons becoming hacks.
You are looking it things in reverse.
They didn't add a restriction, they Removed the code that Was the feature, completely.
It simply isn't there any longer. So is the old addon a hack? No. It isn't even an addon. It is just useless markup language.
and "There are new ones that could be considered hacks, and yes, there needs to be more security against those."
I already detailed the difference between the two, so I won't go over it again.
Since you clearly don't have any programming history, let me present it in a way that requires none.
Think of Addons as videos in different formats (cor. different features)
The API would be the physical Decks to play each, a VHS player, a DVD player, a Blu-Ray player...
A Hack would be a home-brew reel-to-reel using 8mm magnetotape.
The hack does not ineterface with the API(players) at all, and can't.
The Addons (dvd, etc) cannot Be hacks, because they only function Through their respective players. (the API features)
(Ignore downward compatibility blu-ray playing dvd, etc.. for this analogy)
And when the API had a feature removed. . they didn't Add a disk or a device, they took the blu-ray player out of the room completely.
The blu-ray disks, are now just coasters.. they have no purpose.. they don't work.
There is- No connection - between hacks and illegal activities, and the Addon API (or the Addons created with it)
If there is a hack out there, that also uses the API, I would be amazed beyond words because it would be like trying to smuggle diamonds while volunteering to go through the Enhanced Pat-Down lane at the airport.1 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭
Because I don't want to spam the board.Selective quoting sir.''Security - I simply think there needs to be more security that can sniff out bad add ons that would give players an advantage that normally is restricted by the API.''
SNIP
And when the API had a feature removed. . they didn't Add a disk or a device, they took the blu-ray player out of the room completely.
The blu-ray disks, are now just coasters.. they have no purpose.. they don't work.
There is- No connection - between hacks and illegal activities, and the Addon API (or the Addons created with it)
If there is a hack out there, that also uses the API, I would be amazed beyond words because it would be like trying to smuggle diamonds while volunteering to go through the Enhanced Pat-Down lane at the airport.
Out of curiosity, what was the add-on rendered unusable by the API mod?Edited by WhiteQueen on April 30, 2014 9:15PM0 -
Catsocks✭✭Pretty much all the short term buffs (timers and general knowledge) and combat logs that show incoming damage (abilities). Cast timers were removed, and the ability to see enemy magicka and stamina pools.
There were some other things that got changed but I would have to look at months old threads and no one wants to go down that rabbit hole.
Edited by Catsocks on April 30, 2014 9:18PM0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Well, apparently they simply had to do it in other ways, because we still have buff timers and combat logs
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WhiteQueen✭✭✭Pretty much all the short term buffs (timers and general knowledge) and combat logs that show incoming damage (abilities).
There were some other things that got changed but I would have to look at months old threads and no one wants to go down that rabbit hole.
Ah! Aww, that sucks. Particularly since knowing when your buffs expire is so important if you want to keep them up.
Wow. That's majorly lame.
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Rantog✭✭✭✭
Don't forget...Draxinusom wrote: »I too remember the time where having a website was that you, well had a website, maybe scripted, maybe not. I still know the terms cgi-bin and SSI.
When I first heard about a CMS I thought it was a redaction system that newspapers used... someone writes an article, it goes to lecture, gets aproofed and then somehow appears in a certain column. I also was confused why people needed it, because there aren't that many newspapers after all.
And here we are, where "having a website" means installing a CMS and do stuff in it.
Images in Paintshop Pro.
Writing html(1) in Notepad. (not plusplus)
And no such thing as Flash, PHP, or even CSS.
PERL (I know it's still around, but really.. not the same thing)
and - when everyone started learning to embed sound files... I swear I had my speakers unplugged for 6 months straight.
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Catsocks✭✭Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Well, apparently they simply had to do it in other ways, because we still have buff timers and combat logs
Perm buffs are tracked, but short term are not. The buff timer addons you see are guestimations (I mentioned this in a previous post) using tool tips provided to make a guess for how long the buff will be on and not actually accurate. Kinda use at your own risk.
Combat logs now don't tell you what abilities/spells/healing hit you. It just gives you a number. I use combat cloud, and before FTC so I knew it was just numbers with flavor text (shock, fire etc). Pawkettes might have had icons??? But I know for sure incoming damage is severely limited in knowledge.
And in my edit I made mention that cast timers (for self and enemy) and magicka/stamina pools of enemies are disabled.
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Rantog✭✭✭✭WhiteQueen wrote: »Out of curiosity, what was the add-on rendered unusable by the API mod?
I wasn't using it yet to know the specifics. All I know is that it had something to do with presenting text into the chat system. I believe it was being used to cloak the gold spammers from Ignores (before the wholesale line-length abuse, and the paged-scrolling methods).
The other change I don't know anything about. Not even the general nature or purpose. (my own uses are limited to scaling text and icons - since I am having visual problems recently)Edited by Rantog on April 30, 2014 9:26PM0 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭WhiteQueen wrote: »Out of curiosity, what was the add-on rendered unusable by the API mod?
I wasn't using it yet to know the specifics. All I know is that it had something to do with presenting text into the chat system. I believe it was being used to cloak the gold spammers from Ignores (before the wholesale line-length abuse, and the paged-scrolling methods).
Oh! I remember that. You had to resize your chat-window and text to be able to right-click their names. That was a terrible time.0 -
reggielee✭✭✭✭thank you to several of you who explained more fully what I was asking about, I wanted to know if the open API was contributing to botting and if so why would they allow it. I think I got some good answers as well as a few more hilarious sidetracksMama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.0 -
FezzikVizzini✭✭✭Here we go again with a thread posted by someone who hasn't a clue what an addon actually is.
And if you want to do teleporting or infinite horse stamina or infinite dodging then a simple hex editor can do all that - no need for scripts. ZOS in their wisom let's the client do all the movement calculations so just changing one part of memory that holds your co-ordinates results in an insta-teleport.
It is so easy to do that a ten year old with Cheat Engine can change client memory to do loads of things.Yeah, I got a PC. I just don't feel the need to post it's specifications for an ego boost.0 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blackwolfe5 wrote: »*fetches a guitar*
Kumbay ya, my Love, kumbay ya;
Kumbay ya, my Lord, kumbay ya;
Kumbay ya, my Lord, kumbay ya,
O Lord, kumbay ya.
Wait, what was this thread about again? And why does the forum censor this song, lol.
Someone's crying, Lord, kumbaya.0 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭@reggielee wrote: »thank you to several of you who explained more fully what I was asking about, I wanted to know if the open API was contributing to botting and if so why would they allow it. I think I got some good answers as well as a few more hilarious sidetracks
No worries, mate! Glad we could put your mind at ease.Edited by WhiteQueen on May 1, 2014 5:47AM1 -
Drachenmutter✭✭✭Add ons should make the UI better and greater for everyone and in a specific way. Addons should not be allowed, to show players, wehre the resources are or the "Kristallscherben", the Criatalls are. This would be used also for modern Bots, thats for sure.
Better get all the addons out of the game, who are not recomandet to push up your Interface a litte bit.0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Addons cannot detect active resource nodes, all it does it to add map pins to possible resource node locations. It's the exact same thing as alt-tabbing to a website to check the very same info.0
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭FezzikVizzini wrote: »And if you want to do teleporting or infinite horse stamina or infinite dodging then a simple hex editor can do all that - no need for scripts. ZOS in their wisom let's the client do all the movement calculations so just changing one part of memory that holds your co-ordinates results in an insta-teleport.
You're kidding? If true that's truly gross negligence. How could they not know what would happen and have counter-measures designed to stop it? I'm genuinely shocked.0 -
theinsaneb16_ESO✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
Thats just pathetic to not be able to play the game without any addons.
CLOSE the addon capability pls ZOS, im on par with the OP on this one for sure. ppl thatsay they cant or wont play without any addons shouldnt even be here, but in much easier games then this one.
Close the addons capability and we will be rid of 90% of bots/goldsellers already for sure.
We get every day daowntimes from ZOS where 95% of TESO players arent happy with and some stopped already because of this, so dont be scared and close the addons database, cause the addon part could be the games downfall because of the bots/goldseller.
I have seen more bots/goldsellers in TESO then I have ever seen in any other mmo0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭theinsaneb16_ESO wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
Thats just pathetic to not be able to play the game without any addons.
CLOSE the addon capability pls ZOS, im on par with the OP on this one for sure. ppl thatsay they cant or wont play without any addons shouldnt even be here, but in much easier games then this one.
Close the addons capability and we will be rid of 90% of bots/goldsellers already for sure.
We get every day daowntimes from ZOS where 95% of TESO players arent happy with and some stopped already because of this, so dont be scared and close the addons database, cause the addon part could be the games downfall because of the bots/goldseller.
I have seen more bots/goldsellers in TESO then I have ever seen in any other mmo
Have you even read what people (with some common sense and knowledge) have written in this thread? It is NOT the addons that enable the botters, not even 10% of the botters. Heck, I'd be suprised if any bots use addons for botting. Perhaps for text coloring, but that's about it. ADDONS CAN NOT PLAY THE GAME FOR YOU!
Edited by Blackwolfe5 on May 1, 2014 6:25AM0 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally online games should never support any type of third party API. At the day wow introduced their API, bots and hackers said hello for the very first time.
Same with Diablo 2 or 1 etc.
While I don't think its wrong to have an addon that lets you move UI elements, it certainly is wrong if addons allow you to access every harvesting node in this world or can read out mob spawn times or those of chest´s.
Same with reading out abilities of mobs, its like heaven for bots not only at ESO but especially wow and swtor.
Bots use those type of things to farm, its not ok to have these type of things in the game if the impact on the game is so crucial.0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Only, addons cannot detect mobspawns, they cannot detect which resource nodes are up or not. They can not detect what chests have spawned or not. All they can to is add an icon on the map for POSSIBLE spawns. They can not detect what abilities mobs are using.
Addons like Skyshards or harvestmaps do not detect anything. They do not somehow pull node locations from the game. They are using player submitted co-ordinates that players themselves have researched.
Also, Diablo 2 had no officially supported addon api like ESO does. Swtor has no addons, yet it has bots.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on May 1, 2014 6:33AM0 -
Drachenmutter✭✭✭Addons are allowed to overscript Programs or Datas in the Game, so what do Botprograms? Tell me? Take them all out, only UI (userinterfaces) should be allowed!Edited by Drachenmutter on May 1, 2014 6:49AM0
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Genomic✭✭✭✭✭FezzikVizzini wrote: »And if you want to do teleporting or infinite horse stamina or infinite dodging then a simple hex editor can do all that - no need for scripts. ZOS in their wisom let's the client do all the movement calculations so just changing one part of memory that holds your co-ordinates results in an insta-teleport.
Surely not? Not that I'm disbelieving you, but extraordinary claims and all ... so do you have anything to back this up?0 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Pos-hacking is usually done by third-party apps hooking into the game which Windows crassly makes possible and often packet-sniffing and packet-injecting to do their work.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Addons are not 3rd party software. They can only do what they have access to in the api.
I haven't looked into modding, I have no interest in add-ons so I don't know but it would have been breathtakingly stupid of them not to consider the 'botting' potential of all functionality they exposed in the add-on API and right now I can't believe any of the bots are driven by ESO add-ons .. it would appall me to learn there are.Edited by KerinKor on May 1, 2014 6:52AM0 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭I swear, some of these people sound like addons killed their entire family and now they have sworn to avenge them.
"Reading? Common sense? What's that?"Edited by Blackwolfe5 on May 1, 2014 6:56AM0 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭Dear @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ,
1) Can we close this thread? The OP had his concerns adequately assuaged and made a very nice post to the fact.
2) Can we get a definitive mod post on the difference between third-party bot hacks and API add-ons? Because some people apparently cannot comprehend the difference.
Thanks.Edited by WhiteQueen on May 1, 2014 7:09AM2