Why arent you addressing that most of the botting is occurring due to game scripting for addons
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh I will support them with my subscription. For 3 months, if they do not implement the EU servers in the EU however after that.....I plan on playing this game for years to come if they do that. I will be one of their most loyal fans. But I will not pay to be lied to, or to have them say "there is a mod for that" and not fix it, if it takes a year to implement something, fine, as long as they do it. But lets be honest, a proper guild store search option shouldn't take a year, lol. That's all I really want. =P And actual EU servers.Fairydragon3 wrote: »
And I have nothing against that. To each is their own, whatever floats your boat, different strokes for different folks, etc. But I do have a problem with them acting like this is a single player TES game and ignoring problems because there is a mod for that.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Of course ZO should improve their UI, but having a way to customize the UI the way it currently is possible would still add a lot of value.
They will fix their current issues before moving on to improving menus and UI. Took WoW a couple of expantions to even put in a dungeon gatherer system. If you want new content and content improvement you are going to have to be patient and continue to support the subscription plan. Changes like that usually occur at big patches like Craglorn
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Arsvita✭✭✭
________________________________________________________________Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
If you don't use addons, you are no MMO player. Maybe you need someone to teach you how they work? I know computers can be confusing for certain older people.
I started playing online with the BBC / M.U.D.s and do not bother with addons. If you need a program to tell you what to do, when to do it, and how to do it..... Who is playing the game? Clearly it would be the addon making all of the decisions on what actions are "preferred" and performed.
Oh, Oh! Step out of that fire quickly now!!! Ok, use so and such an action now, now this ... It goes on and on.
There is something called thinking for oneself.
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But, on the note of this thread, to get back to the real topic at hand.
Report, report, report the bots you come across and hope they are taken care of. There is not much else to do about that situation.
Now that dang colored text addon, and the addon by the same maker for anti-colored text (sounds like some scam to me), is not only used to spam, scam, and fake [System] Notifications falls under harassment and borderline Exploit.
The same person made both opposing addons, because they realized it was an issue while not removing the first, or perhaps they just want on your system, and/or to have the dl for site purposes (numbers / adds).0 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭ct12yyyeb17_ESO wrote: »Addons got nothing to do with bots.
Still this game don`t need bots. Just some macro, programmable keyboard or any program that can click 1 button.
Game is so simple that a 10 year kid can figure a way to bot a boss or a harvest node.
Utter nonsense. for a programmable keyboard to do what bots does there would have to be keys to press that detect a boss spawning, move to the spawn point and automatically follow that boss.
Point us to these controls.0 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭vendettaxxiii wrote: »The only add-on that should be allowed is the one that shows you your battle stats. Other than that, Dante's right. What's with the add-ons for locating skyshards and crafting materials? That's highly ridiculous and is completely hand holding for a game that already holds your hand pretty much all the way through.
Exactly..
Addons should just show information that you don't usually see in the client.
NOT show information that you don't usually see in the client.
Do you really not see how flawed your statement is?
It is hand-holding to present information that isn't normally shown by the client, but is useful.
but it is Not hand-holding to present information that isn't normally shown by the client, but is useful?0 -
AlliN✭✭✭Bots that stand near boss use simple loop of script to target closest target. Nothing more. Mailing bots use 3rd party software like Autohotkey.
This has nothing to do wih addons, that mostly change XML code of the UI, some using lua coding.
Only option would be to disable /script commands apart from just couple of them like /stuck etc. XML part is unable to produce a bot, it only affects interface becasue it is essentailly an overlay.
Disabling /script would not be problematic, easy to implement and it would not affect essential UI addons at all.0 -
Catsocks✭✭
________________________________________________________________Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
If you don't use addons, you are no MMO player. Maybe you need someone to teach you how they work? I know computers can be confusing for certain older people.
I started playing online with the BBC / M.U.D.s and do not bother with addons. If you need a program to tell you what to do, when to do it, and how to do it..... Who is playing the game? Clearly it would be the addon making all of the decisions on what actions are "preferred" and performed.
Oh, Oh! Step out of that fire quickly now!!! Ok, use so and such an action now, now this ... It goes on and on.
There is something called thinking for oneself.
You know the game itself tells you when to block etc right? Or it did on the last beta weekend, I turned that crap off immediately when I started up on Live.
Also, none of the add-ons that I have seen tells you how to play this game due to huge API restrictions, most of them are simple quality of life addons. Even the buff/aura trackers are "guestimations" because the API doesn't allow you to see short term buffs on your characters.
The API restrictions in this game are huge. I have no idea why people are throwing out these weird strawmen.
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Blackwolfe5✭✭✭It's really simple.
Can an addon play the game for you? No.
Can an addon gather material nodes automatically? No.
Can an addon move your character? No.1 -
Kiwi✭✭✭✭mule management saves me at least an hours worth of tooling around with banks per day
i dont care what sorcery makes it work, the thing is GOLDA large rectangle
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Blackwolfe5✭✭✭mule management saves me at least an hours worth of tooling around with banks per day
i dont care what sorcery makes it work, the thing is GOLD
Wasn't it renamed Bank Manager recently though? Either way.. wonderful addon. Though I use x4d bank for that since it recently got the same functionality.
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Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭@laced trust me they will never tel you to actively go get an addon. One, they cannot support the addon, and two they would prefer you feedback to they can make changes, which will draw in people and revenue0
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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One can only hope good sir. One can only hope. Is there even a suggestion forum here?Fairydragon3 wrote: »@laced trust me they will never tel you to actively go get an addon. One, they cannot support the addon, and two they would prefer you feedback to they can make changes, which will draw in people and revenue
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Vyshan✭✭✭This isn't anything new. Bots have existed since MMORPG became a genre.
We used to spend all day tracking down people using ShowEQ and MacroQuest, back in the EverQuest days, and that was a game that had no interface API or AddOn support.
No matter who the company is, or what resources they have available, it will be plagued with bots. In the end, the game data stored in memory can be decrypted and read/written to and/or the data stream can be intercepted and altered.
These bots aren't your sixteen year old neighbor. They're professional companies with a monetary stake in this. They're not botting for bragging rights, they're botting to earn a profit. They can, and do, employ full-time programmers who's sole job is to decompile the game client, its patches, and decrypt the data stream to understand the most efficient way to manipulate it in their favor.
This isn't new and it's not going away. This "blackmarket industry" is worth BILLIONS of dollars. Even banning their accounts isn't a huge setback, in the grand scheme of things.
As long as there's a demand willing to pay, there will be bots ready to provide.
But, it has nothing to do with AddOns.Edited by Vyshan on April 30, 2014 7:31PM2 -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭
One can only hope good sir. One can only hope. Is there even a suggestion forum here?Fairydragon3 wrote: »@laced trust me they will never tel you to actively go get an addon. One, they cannot support the addon, and two they would prefer you feedback to they can make changes, which will draw in people and revenue
pick on of these, or I think right now CS is the unofficial general game discussion. I think they want to keep a better eye on what we are talking about just in case it is an issue they can fix then and there
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/categories/EN-game-discussion0 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭How many others are just following this thread to laugh at those playing Tough Guy like they are a hardcore - Extreme-Mode player...
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And playing ESO?
That's like going to a theme park with x6 roller coasters and riding the merry-go-round, then calling the people riding plastic horses With Saddles wimps.Edited by Rantog on April 30, 2014 7:38PM2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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again I have nothing against people using these add ons. ButHow many others are just following this thread to laugh at those playing Tough Guy like they are a hardcore - Extreme-Mode player...
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And playing ESO?
That's like going to a theme park with x6 roller coasters and riding the merry-go-round, then calling the people riding plastic horses With Saddles wimps.
A. They need to be constantly regulated, and there needs to be programs that "sniff" out "illegal" activities.
B. The developer should not ignore problems because there is an add on for that.
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Catsocks✭✭
again I have nothing against people using these add ons. ButHow many others are just following this thread to laugh at those playing Tough Guy like they are a hardcore - Extreme-Mode player...
..
And playing ESO?
That's like going to a theme park with x6 roller coasters and riding the merry-go-round, then calling the people riding plastic horses With Saddles wimps.
A. They need to be constantly regulated, and there needs to be programs that "sniff" out "illegal" activities.
Addons can not play your character for you. It can only present information that ZOS allows through their API, which is heavily restricted. You are talking about 3rd party programs/scripts. There is a huge difference.
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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I understand that. Did I say add ons can play the game for you? No, I did not. I simply said that they need to implement security measures to make sure people don't get through the API restrictions.
again I have nothing against people using these add ons. ButHow many others are just following this thread to laugh at those playing Tough Guy like they are a hardcore - Extreme-Mode player...
..
And playing ESO?
That's like going to a theme park with x6 roller coasters and riding the merry-go-round, then calling the people riding plastic horses With Saddles wimps.
A. They need to be constantly regulated, and there needs to be programs that "sniff" out "illegal" activities.
Addons can not play your character for you. It can only present information that ZOS allows through their API, which is heavily restricted. You are talking about 3rd party programs/scripts. There is a huge difference.
Edited by Jade1986 on April 30, 2014 7:45PM0 -
WhiteQueen✭✭✭I did some cursory research. I think the OP has confused Add-On .lua files with the third-party botting programs that also use .lua files to script.
To reiterate everyone else's points:
Botting uses a third party program to do things the game wouldn't normally allow you to do or to automate processes that normally require user input. Teleport, harvest, target, etc.
Add-ons, in contrast, only do what the client allows you to do, via the API. This means: display information normally hidden or collect and display information normally hidden; alter visual settings (such as modifying the targeting reticle to be more useful); expand the UI beyond its simplistic origins, etc.
TL:DR-- Botting = / = Add-onsEdited by WhiteQueen on April 30, 2014 7:48PM2 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭again I have nothing against people using these add ons. But
A. They need to be constantly regulated, and there needs to be programs that "sniff" out "illegal" activities.
B. The developer should not ignore problems because there is an add on for that.
Again, Addons have Nothing to do with those illegal activities.
Bots - are a 3rd party program that simulates keyboard/mouse inputs.
Tele hacks - are a direct memory edit of character locations.
Speed hacks - same thing, or a hack to strip animations from the models.
Invisible harvesting - is a hack that tells the client the terrain is Lower than it actually is, so they move around Beneath it - typically used in conjunction with a tele hack.
None of these have Anything, What So Ever, to do with the Addon API or the addons created with it.
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Agree on sniffing out the activities.
They could easily detect Teleport and Speed hacks.
Detecting world mods (moving below the map etc) is almost as easy.. but needs a few more checks to prevent false positives (falling etc)
Bots, tho.. I'm afraid they can't detect. They just don't talk to the game client.. they have your Operating system do it for them.. and since that is how You communicate with the game too....
But Bans Work.Edited by Rantog on April 30, 2014 7:50PM1 -
Catsocks✭✭
I understand that. Did I say add ons can play the game for you? No, I did not. I simply said that they need to implement security measures to make sure people don't get through the API restrictions.
again I have nothing against people using these add ons. ButHow many others are just following this thread to laugh at those playing Tough Guy like they are a hardcore - Extreme-Mode player...
..
And playing ESO?
That's like going to a theme park with x6 roller coasters and riding the merry-go-round, then calling the people riding plastic horses With Saddles wimps.
A. They need to be constantly regulated, and there needs to be programs that "sniff" out "illegal" activities.
Addons can not play your character for you. It can only present information that ZOS allows through their API, which is heavily restricted. You are talking about 3rd party programs/scripts. There is a huge difference.
By it's very nature an addon can not break the API restrictions placed on it. Oh geez....0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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Would you like to point out where I even mentioned the word "bot"? Because I never did. I understand, and I have already said this twice, that the bot programs are third party programs.again I have nothing against people using these add ons. But
A. They need to be constantly regulated, and there needs to be programs that "sniff" out "illegal" activities.
B. The developer should not ignore problems because there is an add on for that.
Again, Addons have Nothing to do with those illegal activities.
Bots - are a 3rd party program that simulates keyboard/mouse inputs.
Tele hacks - are a direct memory edit of character locations.
Speed hacks - same thing, or a hack to strip animations from the models.
Invisible harvesting - is a hack that tells the client the terrain is Lower than it actually is, so they move around Beneath it - typically used in conjunction with a tele hack.
None of these have Anything, What So Ever, to do with the Addon API or the addons created with it.
ON THAT NOTE THOUGH, it is NOT an impossibility that someone could create an add on that GETS THROUGH the api restrictions. Not bots, just an add on that should not be there. As unlikely as that may be, its not an impossibility.
To sum up.
Bots - third party programs. Not add ons.
Check
Add ons - Ok in my book, to each is their own.
Check
Security - I simply think there needs to be more security that can sniff out bad add ons that would give players an advantage that normally is restricted by the API.
Check
Official patches and improvements from the devs - Should not be set on the back burner because there is a mod for that.
Check
Did I make myself clear? Or do you still think that I think that add ons are responsible for bots? I certainly hope not.
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Orizuru✭✭✭
I understand that. Did I say add ons can play the game for you? No, I did not. I simply said that they need to implement security measures to make sure people don't get through the API restrictions.
again I have nothing against people using these add ons. ButHow many others are just following this thread to laugh at those playing Tough Guy like they are a hardcore - Extreme-Mode player...
..
And playing ESO?
That's like going to a theme park with x6 roller coasters and riding the merry-go-round, then calling the people riding plastic horses With Saddles wimps.
A. They need to be constantly regulated, and there needs to be programs that "sniff" out "illegal" activities.
Addons can not play your character for you. It can only present information that ZOS allows through their API, which is heavily restricted. You are talking about 3rd party programs/scripts. There is a huge difference.
What makes you think they are not?
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skeletorz_ESO✭✭✭If zenimax allowed more ui functionality that addressed your favorite addons would this make it more acceptable?
This is the only reasonable compromise. Get on it, ZoS. Put all the most popular add-ons into the UI and be done with it.“If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.” -- René Descartes2 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Out of boredom I went and researched how on earth these botters are doing their bidness, and I was shocked to learn that the majority are using game scripting programs created by others for sale that uses open accessible information provided by ESO to allow addon capability.
There has to be a reason why the devs are not just closing the addon access.... if so I would like to hear about it, because I can live without some dumb addons if it will gut all the rampant botting being done by gold farmers and now in increasing numbers by individual players.
Dear OP,
Go to Google and look up AutoHotKey.
Legit program with a load of uses. Congratulations, you know how bots sit there hitting two buttons while sitting on a boss.
Between AHK another subscription based system I wont mention by name and another type of software, you can bot bosses and basic harvesting. None of these use addon api.
Teleporting bots also isnt reliant on the addon api.
Please try again.0 -
Vyshan✭✭✭It's software. Anything done can be undone and/or circumvented.
A packet filter, running on a totally separate computer on your network, would not be detected as it's not running on the same system as the game client. (nor would a macro program run in a virtual machine on the same system as the game client).
More sanity checks and stronger encryption would help immensely. However, they have to do a cost-benefit analysis of how far to take it.
The more checks and the stronger the encryption being used.. the more calculations for the server (and clients) to process for everything players do.
That begins to build up in the form of server-side lag.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't understand why they didn't have the ability ot customize your UI in game anyway from the get go.skeletorz_ESO wrote: »
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Lonestryder✭✭✭Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Quality of life, ever heard of it? Addons don't play the game for us but they can greatly enhance our experience and elimimate annoyances (sometimes even fix bugs). The Ui (in all it's parts) is an important aspect of many games. Same goes for ESO.
I can get behind the idea of "quality of life" in every facet of my life...except gaming.
Someone once stated that adventure is danger and discomfort recollected in tranquility. That's only one man's definition, but it is a thoughtful one.
I know, not everyone wants to adventure when he or she plays (though I personally do), so there is just no real right or wrong here.
I have never used an addon for any TES game and have no intention of doing it now. However, I do not begrudge anyone else using them. It goes completely against my philosophy and I doubt we'd have much in common in real life, but addon users are obviously welcome by the game, and by extension welcome by me.
The botters, however, they impact my gameplay to the extent that I no longer go into dungeons. At least not until all this settles down.1 -
Orizuru✭✭✭I love it when armchair programmers start theorizing about software design. It's almost as amusing as when one of the users for one of my software modules submits a request for a modification and begins by stating, "All you have to do is..."
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