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Why arent you addressing that most of the botting is occurring due to game scripting for addons
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Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
As someone in Game design, don't dis the addons. It's a good way to observe functionality. Most addons, only add something to the UI. the only I like to use is the one that lets me know what I have researched already, so im not spending as much time in my bag. Also, most mods are not for plying but aesthetics, only altering the way something looks.
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Addons got nothing to do with bots.
Still this game don`t need bots. Just some macro, programmable keyboard or any program that can click 1 button.
Game is so simple that a 10 year kid can figure a way to bot a boss or a harvest node.
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STOP ACCEPTING APATHY AS A SOLUTION!
Zenimax should incorporate in-house fixes for the most popular add-ons.
There is absolutley no acceptable reason why a company, who's software i'm paying to use, should blindly turn over the enrichment of their game to the community.
I'm all for community driven content, and love seeing it added to games, but it should only come into the game from OFFICIAL GAME CHANNELS; ie the game devs.
Yes, this will help reduce some of the bot issue, and yes it won't stop all of it, but for the love of GAMES it will sure as hell reduce the number of bots currently in the game. Not to mention smash those annoying colored text add-ons without forcing other players to install an add-on, JUST to block an add-on.
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i dont use addons except gss and i want what i want because i pay for.. so remove addons and bots!2 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DigitalMerc83 wrote: »STOP ACCEPTING APATHY AS A SOLUTION!
Zenimax should incorporate in-house fixes for the most popular add-ons.
There is absolutley no acceptable reason why a company, who's software i'm paying to use, should blindly turn over the enrichment of their game to the community.
I'm all for community driven content, and love seeing it added to games, but it should only come into the game from OFFICIAL GAME CHANNELS; ie the game devs.
Yes, this will help reduce some of the bot issue, and yes it won't stop all of it, but for the love of GAMES it will sure as hell reduce the number of bots currently in the game. Not to mention smash those annoying colored text add-ons without forcing other players to install an add-on, JUST to block an add-on.
Only addon I use on a regular basis is Kill Counter to track my kills in Cyrodiil.
I only do this because Cyrodiil previously had a Kill 20 Enemy Players quest that was repeatable and kept track of my kills for me. Since the quest was made daily, and no in-game counter exists, I had to go to addons.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Rantog✭✭✭✭Out of boredom I went and researched how on earth these botters are doing their bidness, and I was shocked to learn that the majority are using game scripting programs created by others for sale that uses open accessible information provided by ESO to allow addon capability.
There has to be a reason why the devs are not just closing the addon access.... if so I would like to hear about it, because I can live without some dumb addons if it will gut all the rampant botting being done by gold farmers and now in increasing numbers by individual players.
If only it were so simple..
First..
BOT Software is NOT an Add-On.
Addons are exactly that, Added On to the game client. They are made with the API given to us by Zenimax.
Secondly..
The Software being used does not communicate with the game client, and can be cloaked in process so that the game client can't even see it is running.
It operates the game character by signalling your Operating System that you have done something... Pressed a key, clicked a mouse button, etc.
So for Zenimax to block the bot software, it would have to ignore your own keyboard/mouse inputs.
The only way to stop the bots is to actively work In-Game to ban them, where the cost of replacement accounts becomes too high to continue Botting.4 -
You just don`t get it guys
The only way to remove bots is to remove gold/items buyers.
Name a single MMO without bots if u know one?
There is always a way to make a bot work for you.
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What is with the wild suggestions of this community? Why is it ok for every other game to use detection for bots yet for ESO we suggest stupidity like removing add ons.
There is another thread suggesting the removal of player trading to eliminate gold selling, ridiculous.
ZOS can detect bots easy, you don't need to disable add ons, they are not a major issue in the game since they were cleaned from public dungeons. Now they just run around in circles in the open world, how does that affect the way you enjoy this game?2 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭Dante_Marquis wrote: »If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
So those of us with visual impairments should stop playing these games instead of making UI mods (addons) that expand the important elements?
The OP isn't even talking about actual Addons - which in No Way allow Botting or exploits.
He/She is talking about 3rd party programs written to run complex keyboard/mouse scripts and respond to specific pixel configurations - only misunderstanding the term "Addon" to mean that sort of software.3 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Agreed Rantog. I've seen several bots that have been up and running for more than a week on the EU megaserver despite them being reported. Removing addons would barely do a thing vs bots and would only punish legit players.1 -
knaveofengland✭✭✭every mmo has the same problem , a few ways of dealing with it eso can sell gold them selves example eve ,world of tanks, gw2 to name a few.
the best thing you can do is report any bot and gold seller/spammer you see
eso had their reasons why they made the game this way , I mean I even mention one game in particular world of tanks his name is serv , he will simply tell you don't like the game don't play it .
so in hind sight its better to work with eso in reporting these things and let them sort it out I mean its not like you can much so work with them0 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Agreed Rantog. I've seen several bots that have been up and running for more than a week on the EU megaserver despite them being reported. Removing addons would barely do a thing vs bots and would only punish legit players.
Likely Nothing at all.
The Addon API was written carefully to Avoid allowing anything exploitable, and the one loophole found was plugged quickly. (and that was just useful for spamming)
There is simply nothing in the API that would in any way facilitate bots.
And even if there were, it wouldn't be necessary. The big 3 bot software options already allow them to mimic any action a Human can take - Without interacting with the client to risk detection.. so why would they Add risk for No benefit?1 -
7788b14_ESO✭✭✭Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
LOL, add-ons have been around since MMO's came out. I've used them since SWG.2 -
Catsocks✭✭7788b14_ESO wrote: »Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
LOL, add-ons have been around since MMO's came out. I've used them since SWG.
Yeah I used addons in EQ and WoW: TBC/WoTLK. "Old School gamer" dude is hilarious.
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vendettaxxiiiSoul Shriven7788b14_ESO wrote: »Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
LOL, add-ons have been around since MMO's came out. I've used them since SWG.
Yeah I used addons in EQ and WoW: TBC/WoTLK. "Old School gamer" dude is hilarious.
The only add-on that should be allowed is the one that shows you your battle stats. Other than that, Dante's right. What's with the add-ons for locating skyshards and crafting materials? That's highly ridiculous and is completely hand holding for a game that already holds your hand pretty much all the way through.2 -
Vyshan✭✭✭vendettaxxiii wrote: »7788b14_ESO wrote: »Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
LOL, add-ons have been around since MMO's came out. I've used them since SWG.
Yeah I used addons in EQ and WoW: TBC/WoTLK. "Old School gamer" dude is hilarious.
The only add-on that should be allowed is the one that shows you your battle stats. Other than that, Dante's right. What's with the add-ons for locating skyshards and crafting materials? That's highly ridiculous and is completely hand holding for a game that already holds your hand pretty much all the way through.
If I didn't have an AddOn for skyshards, crafting materials, books, and treasure maps, do you know what it means? It means I just have to alt-tab out to www.esohead.com to get the same information.
The hand-holding will exist so long as people want it to.
Zenimax can't stop that, AddOn API or not.Edited by Vyshan on April 30, 2014 6:32PM4 -
Striken7✭✭✭Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
If you don't use addons, you are no MMO player. Maybe you need someone to teach you how they work? I know computers can be confusing for certain older people.6 -
vendettaxxiiiSoul Shrivenvendettaxxiii wrote: »7788b14_ESO wrote: »Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
LOL, add-ons have been around since MMO's came out. I've used them since SWG.
Yeah I used addons in EQ and WoW: TBC/WoTLK. "Old School gamer" dude is hilarious.
The only add-on that should be allowed is the one that shows you your battle stats. Other than that, Dante's right. What's with the add-ons for locating skyshards and crafting materials? That's highly ridiculous and is completely hand holding for a game that already holds your hand pretty much all the way through.
If I didn't have an AddOn for skyshards, crafting materials, books, and treasure maps, do you know what it means? It means I just have to alt-tab out to www.esohead.com to get the same information.
The hand-holding will exist so long as people want it to.
Zenimax can't stop that, AddOn API or not.
Lawl. That's hilarious. If you have to use a website, then you are no MMO player. Open your journal in game. They give clues to the skyshards--Most of which you will find just running around questing. Same thing for crafting materials. Run around and actually look around you, you will find everything you need, I promise.
@Striken7 -- Mature, really showing your age there. Refer to the statement above.0 -
Catsocks✭✭vendettaxxiii wrote: »7788b14_ESO wrote: »Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
LOL, add-ons have been around since MMO's came out. I've used them since SWG.
Yeah I used addons in EQ and WoW: TBC/WoTLK. "Old School gamer" dude is hilarious.
The only add-on that should be allowed is the one that shows you your battle stats. Other than that, Dante's right. What's with the add-ons for locating skyshards and crafting materials? That's highly ridiculous and is completely hand holding for a game that already holds your hand pretty much all the way through.
No, he's welcome to play the game however he wants. He, however, doesn't get to dictate how anyone else gets to play this game if they aren't breaking the rules that ZOS (not him) have decided on.
I can't wait for this thread to turn into the one posted a month+ ago on the PTS forums; where all the roleplayers cried "MY IMMERSION" and when the API got absolutely restricted, there was a huge "But I just wanted <thing I didn't like to get restricted> not <thing I liked> !"
Cause that was hilarious tbh.
Edited by Catsocks on April 30, 2014 6:42PM2 -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭These addons that show you were stuff is......that is for after 3 more months from now when I"ve found so many skyshards and know where most material is of the back of my hand. Addons are just for clean up to me.0
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Vyshan✭✭✭vendettaxxiii wrote: »vendettaxxiii wrote: »7788b14_ESO wrote: »Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
LOL, add-ons have been around since MMO's came out. I've used them since SWG.
Yeah I used addons in EQ and WoW: TBC/WoTLK. "Old School gamer" dude is hilarious.
The only add-on that should be allowed is the one that shows you your battle stats. Other than that, Dante's right. What's with the add-ons for locating skyshards and crafting materials? That's highly ridiculous and is completely hand holding for a game that already holds your hand pretty much all the way through.
If I didn't have an AddOn for skyshards, crafting materials, books, and treasure maps, do you know what it means? It means I just have to alt-tab out to www.esohead.com to get the same information.
The hand-holding will exist so long as people want it to.
Zenimax can't stop that, AddOn API or not.
Lawl. That's hilarious. If you have to use a website, then you are no MMO player. Open your journal in game. They give clues to the skyshards--Most of which you will find just running around questing. Same thing for crafting materials. Run around and actually look around you, you will find everything you need, I promise.
@Striken7 -- Mature, really showing your age there. Refer to the statement above.
Maybe you enjoy wasting your time looking for something you're going to spend 1 second clicking. I don't. I have better things to do. 3 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you actually did some research you'd know that the limited API access has nothing to do with the bots. Do you think that bots will suddenly vanish or have any issues with your suggestion because if you actually believe that, then I have a bridge for sale.
Because the API is not open it's actually quite limited. Wow's API is more open than this game. Having API access for addons allows the community to develop things that the developers do not have to work on. It also allows the community to develop quality of life changes that can make the devs job easier.
What is it with people in the last week and making terrible suggestions? people wanting to disable player to player trading, people wanting zenimax to sell their own in game gold and now addon disabling? geesh.Edited by Arsenic_Touch on April 30, 2014 6:49PM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
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"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
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NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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The problem is, in single player TES games I was no paying the company passed the initial purchase. So I didn't expect THAT much support, updates yes, but not much else.Nox_Aeterna wrote: »If zenimax allowed more ui functionality that addressed your favorite addons would this make it more acceptable?
Mate , yes , if zen could adress everyones addons , then there would be no need for addons.
But just like any ES game , the community usually can generate more content of this kind than the devs , sometimes it is a very small addon that changes the game just a little , that not a big group of players love , but those who do love it , would not play without it anymore.
And they are happy , the modder is happy he got some people that think his addon is awesome and so on.
I love mods in general , i find they are a really nice and great part of gaming , one of the reasons i prefer to play games on the PC. Great people , create free content , so that we could enjoy games even more. I would never give this up , just to get rid of the bots and gold sellers.
IN THIS GAME, I pay a monthly subscription, which means I expect them to fix the game, improve the game, improve the UI, provide extra content for no extra cost, etc. I do NOT pay for modders to make UI add ons. I expect the dev. to do this.
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Isn't that, and your post for that matter, a bit like explaining exactly how a burglar got into a house and showing everyone how to do it...Dante_Marquis wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Here is the thing , addons do not matter , to YOU , i use TONS of them , and honestly , i would have gold sellers in this game for years , than to have them remove the addons.
If you need Add ons then stop playing MMOs you are no gamer....My wife and I are old school we don't need any mod to help us play and never well..by the Goddess the Kids these days. You mean to tell me that you need an add on to hold your hand and play the game for you?? because that is what you are doing.
Do I use addons... hell yes... do I enjoy having a research timer that shows when my research is gonna be free ? Yes... Do I enjoy the minimap addons ? Ofcourse I do.
But to be honest, I find your "The Kids these days" Offensive... I'm 46 and I don't particulary like being called a kid by an 'Old School' gamer that probably doesn't even remember Arena...
So... enjoy playing without them... just like those that "do" use them enjoy playing with them...
Edited by stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO on April 30, 2014 6:54PMThe statement "if you put enough monkeys behind enough typewriters... sooner or later one will produce the works of Shakespeare" has sadly been proven utterly wrong by the internet...5 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Of course ZO should improve their UI, but having a way to customize the UI the way it currently is possible would still add a lot of value.0
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Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
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And I have nothing against that. To each is their own, whatever floats your boat, different strokes for different folks, etc. But I do have a problem with them acting like this is a single player TES game and ignoring problems because there is a mod for that.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Of course ZO should improve their UI, but having a way to customize the UI the way it currently is possible would still add a lot of value.
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Draxinusom✭✭✭"game scripting" is a generic term and has nothing to do with the ESO addon interface. The latter cannot be used to "follow" another character nor to teleport around. The ability is simply not there. Yet that is what the bots do. Please don't confound "game scripting" with ESO's addon API.
Bots use external means to do what they do. Would they use ESO API addons, then ZOS could simply transmit the list of addons loaded and in use from the client to the server and auto ban immediately but that's simply not how it is. If ZOS would remove the ESO API tomorrow (it's not possible, the official interface uses it as well so the entire UI would need to be remade) then there would still be bots. They simply don't need it to work.
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Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭
The problem is, in single player TES games I was no paying the company passed the initial purchase. So I didn't expect THAT much support, updates yes, but not much else.Nox_Aeterna wrote: »If zenimax allowed more ui functionality that addressed your favorite addons would this make it more acceptable?
Mate , yes , if zen could adress everyones addons , then there would be no need for addons.
But just like any ES game , the community usually can generate more content of this kind than the devs , sometimes it is a very small addon that changes the game just a little , that not a big group of players love , but those who do love it , would not play without it anymore.
And they are happy , the modder is happy he got some people that think his addon is awesome and so on.
I love mods in general , i find they are a really nice and great part of gaming , one of the reasons i prefer to play games on the PC. Great people , create free content , so that we could enjoy games even more. I would never give this up , just to get rid of the bots and gold sellers.
IN THIS GAME, I pay a monthly subscription, which means I expect them to fix the game, improve the game, improve the UI, provide extra content for no extra cost, etc. I do NOT pay for modders to make UI add ons. I expect the dev. to do this.
Well, help them with their development costs, by continuing your subscription. This stuff takes time. and often fix a bug will create more bugs in another part of the code. That's just how it goes.0 -
Fairydragon3✭✭✭✭
And I have nothing against that. To each is their own, whatever floats your boat, different strokes for different folks, etc. But I do have a problem with them acting like this is a single player TES game and ignoring problems because there is a mod for that.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Of course ZO should improve their UI, but having a way to customize the UI the way it currently is possible would still add a lot of value.
They will fix their current issues before moving on to improving menus and UI. Took WoW a couple of expantions to even put in a dungeon gatherer system. If you want new content and content improvement you are going to have to be patient and continue to support the subscription plan. Changes like that usually occur at big patches like Craglorn
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