The Daggerfall Covenant lion crest: a plausible Arena & ESO connection

Clyde_BlueSnake · March 2022

Have a dev, a behind the scenes talk of such where they got the idea design for each crest for the Alliances?

Here's something I been speculation on for a while, that I hope a dev could shine light on. To me the Daggerfall Covenant's lion crest symbol seems it could be a reference to a yellow lion crest that can found on some metal doors and few wall décor within a ancient ruined fort called Stonekeep located in Hammerfell in The Elder Scrolls 1: Arena, & the 2 times I went through Arena I think that's the only place I found that crest in. For both lion crests pose are close identical & that in Arena, Queen Blubamka of Rihad who send the Eternal Champion there to get a parchment referred the ruined fortress as ancient, & the former owners there were an unknown group of knights & their King, with ESO & for it takes place way before Arena it just feel like those former owners could've a connection to the Daggerfall Covenant.

Arena:

Online & Legends:

Covenant-Wall-Banner-Small-1-1.jpg?w=442&ssl=1

WhiteCoatSyndrome · March 2022

Oh cool. Excellent catch!

Mushroomancer · March 2022

Hm, that is interesting and ZOS might have taken inspiration from Arena.
On the other hand, the lion, especially in that pose (I believe it's called "lion rampant" or something like that) is quite common in heraldry, so it could just be they took inspiration from common heraldic imagery. Would also make sense since lions generally represent nobility and chivalry, which fits especially well with Breton culture, and the main seat of power of the Covenant is in High Rock.

As for the other Alliances, I think both the dragon (or wyvern/wyrm) and the eagle are also pretty common in heraldry. Although I will say, I don't think I've ever seen a coat of arms which represents a dragon like the EP one, but I am not very knowledgeable about the topic, just cursory knowledge.

Supreme_Atromancer · March 2022

Wow, great catch!

Unfortunately, I'm of the opinion that a lot of that sort of stuff really didn't have much thought put into it back then. Lion, Dragon and Eagle are considered regal animals, the devs at the time liked them, and they just shoe-horned everything into it, whether it fit or not. That's the extent of the thought that went into it back then.

I think also its fair to say that there's a lot of stuff from Arena and Daggerfall that the series kinda left dead and never did anything with. One example is the Direnni symbol back then was a bull. Why? No idea. There doesn't seem to be any connection. I don't think we see anything more of it, until ESO where their symbol has become a smoking alchemy flask. Conversely, iirc Daggerfall's symbol of the Dragon back in TES2 adorns King Cassimir's heraldry in ESO, so there is some effort.

I guess we can speculate, though? There are parts of Hammerfell we haven't explored yet, and perhaps the Lion Rampant is an ancient symbol associated with some proud faction of Hammerfell's history which Emeric adopted in deference and humility towards his new Redguard allies? Or it could be the other way around. Perhaps some faction believed they were the true heirs of The Eternal Covenant and held its principles and heraldry many years beyond the demise of the Covenant we see today. One of their strongholds might have been Stonekeep in southern Hammerfell, and they held out with their beliefs and pride truly believing that one day the Covenant would be reunited, sadly dwindling in number and forgotten, eventually falling into a ruin ruled only by goblins.