Update 41 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

The Daggerfall Covenant lion crest: a plausible Arena & ESO connection

Clyde_BlueSnake
Clyde_BlueSnake
✭✭✭
Have a dev, a behind the scenes talk of such where they got the idea design for each crest for the Alliances?

Here's something I been speculation on for a while, that I hope a dev could shine light on. To me the Daggerfall Covenant's lion crest symbol seems it could be a reference to a yellow lion crest that can found on some metal doors and few wall décor within a ancient ruined fort called Stonekeep located in Hammerfell in The Elder Scrolls 1: Arena, & the 2 times I went through Arena I think that's the only place I found that crest in. For both lion crests pose are close identical & that in Arena, Queen Blubamka of Rihad who send the Eternal Champion there to get a parchment referred the ruined fortress as ancient, & the former owners there were an unknown group of knights & their King, with ESO & for it takes place way before Arena it just feel like those former owners could've a connection to the Daggerfall Covenant.

Arena:
hb8vpq0pb8xt.jpg

Online & Legends:
Covenant-Wall-Banner-Small-1-1.jpg?w=442&ssl=1
ON-icon-Daggerfall_Covenant.png
LG-back-Daggerfall_Covenant.png
Edited by Clyde_BlueSnake on March 16, 2022 6:47AM
Main is Blue-Thuxis, a Argonian stamSorc, whose also is a werewolf! 2nd main, Cobalt-Thuxis, a Argonian stamArc, an identical twin sister to Blue-Thuxis, even is a werewolf as well! some alts:
Nirn-Scale Rajthux (Argonian, Templar), Ros-Ei Nature-Thuxis (Argonian, Warden), Crimson-Thuxis (Argonian, DK), Bone-Thuxis Tharn (Argonian, Necro) Why Bone-Thuxis has Tharn as a last name:
The siblings were separated at a young age due to a Dres slaver raid, Blue, Cobalt, Ros-Ei & their mother were able to escape, Crimson & Bone weren't that lucky. Crimson was later "rescued" by some Orcs that later ambushed the House Dres Dunmers, unfortunately one Dunmer remained & sadly successfully brought the young Bone-Thuxis to the Dres plantation. Later an Imperial, a Tharn, bought Bone at a auction & later told he was free, the young Argonian sadly had no idea where to go & doesn't know if his family was still alive, so the Tharn adopted him into House Tharn. This family of Argonians finally reunited years later.
, Kenneth Clyde (Nord, Sorc), Selene Gray-Thuxis (Argonian, Nightblade), Urmanda (Orc, Warden)
Some ESO history: I originally started from PS4 NA during June 10, 2015, I did reached CP 810+ on there. I eventually kinda got tired of paying PS+, so during February 4, 2019 I started moving to PC NA. Also CP: 810+. Nowadays I play ESO PC mostly, while PS4 is dust.
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Oh cool. Excellent catch!
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works

    Whitestrake’s Mayhem PSA: While battling through the Imperial City, don’t forget you can return to base quickly by queuing for a Cyrodiil campaign, then queuing back to IC!
  • Mushroomancer
    Mushroomancer
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hm, that is interesting and ZOS might have taken inspiration from Arena.
    On the other hand, the lion, especially in that pose (I believe it's called "lion rampant" or something like that) is quite common in heraldry, so it could just be they took inspiration from common heraldic imagery. Would also make sense since lions generally represent nobility and chivalry, which fits especially well with Breton culture, and the main seat of power of the Covenant is in High Rock.

    As for the other Alliances, I think both the dragon (or wyvern/wyrm) and the eagle are also pretty common in heraldry. Although I will say, I don't think I've ever seen a coat of arms which represents a dragon like the EP one, but I am not very knowledgeable about the topic, just cursory knowledge.
    Edited by Mushroomancer on March 16, 2022 11:21AM
    PC | EU 1600+ CP

    Chews-On-Shrooms - Argonian (EP) | Healer Warden
    I know I have a problem, leave me alone:

    Nirya Urayel - Altmer (EP) | Healer/Magicka Templar
    Ulen Favel - Dunmer (EP) | Magicka Nightblade
    Anise Favel - Dunmer (EP) | Magicka Dragonknight
    Vivienne Rielle - Breton (EP) | Hybrid Healer/Magicka Necromancer
    Gaspar Rielle - Breton (DC) | Magicka Sorcerer
    Ulfgar the Foul - Nord (EP) | Tank Necromancer
    Plays-With-Chains - Argonian (EP) | Tank Dragonknight
    Sonje the Wild - Nord (EP) | Tank Warden
    Brutus Lovidicus - Imperial (EP) | Tank Nightblade
    Velms Ienith - Dunmer (EP) | Tank Sorcerer
    Cassius Lanius - Imperial (EP) | Tank/Stamina Templar
    Shakar-gro-Khazgur - Orc (DC) | Stamina Dragonknight
    Liette Nightwind - Bosmer (AD) | Stamina Nightblade
    Ja'khar the Salty - Khajiit (EP) | Stamina Necromancer
    Saadia al-Tava - Redguard (EP) | Stamina Sorcerer
    Gwinas Hemp-Burner - Bosmer (EP) | Stamina Warden
    Grand Master Crafter, All Dungeon HM up to Stonethorn, vCrag HM, vDSA, vMA, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vHOF HM, vAS+2, Gryphon Heart, vBRP, vSS HM (Extinguisher of Flames),
    vKA HM (Shield of the North), vRG 1/3HM
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow, great catch!

    Unfortunately, I'm of the opinion that a lot of that sort of stuff really didn't have much thought put into it back then. Lion, Dragon and Eagle are considered regal animals, the devs at the time liked them, and they just shoe-horned everything into it, whether it fit or not. That's the extent of the thought that went into it back then.

    I think also its fair to say that there's a lot of stuff from Arena and Daggerfall that the series kinda left dead and never did anything with. One example is the Direnni symbol back then was a bull. Why? No idea. There doesn't seem to be any connection. I don't think we see anything more of it, until ESO where their symbol has become a smoking alchemy flask. Conversely, iirc Daggerfall's symbol of the Dragon back in TES2 adorns King Cassimir's heraldry in ESO, so there is some effort.

    I guess we can speculate, though? There are parts of Hammerfell we haven't explored yet, and perhaps the Lion Rampant is an ancient symbol associated with some proud faction of Hammerfell's history which Emeric adopted in deference and humility towards his new Redguard allies? Or it could be the other way around. Perhaps some faction believed they were the true heirs of The Eternal Covenant and held its principles and heraldry many years beyond the demise of the Covenant we see today. One of their strongholds might have been Stonekeep in southern Hammerfell, and they held out with their beliefs and pride truly believing that one day the Covenant would be reunited, sadly dwindling in number and forgotten, eventually falling into a ruin ruled only by goblins.
    Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on March 28, 2022 11:28PM
Sign In or Register to comment.