Tarnamir dialogue bug, and other NPC Ambient Dialogue bugs

Kesstryl · March 2022

Tarnamir in Russafeld, Summerset (notices if you’re in the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood) will now only have this dialogue option for every alt after the Dark Brotherhood achievement is on your account. There will be no other dialogue options for good aligned alt characters ever again once a character has completed the Dark Brotherhood.

I tested this on PTS today. I created a Dark Brotherhood character and did the main DB quest. Then I logged into a character who has not done the Dark Brotherhood, who just started the Main Quest and the AD story. I ported her to Summerset and went to Tarnamir. He did indeed acknowledge my non-DB alt as a criminal. So the rumors are true that achievements will mess with quest dialogue. Please fix Tarnamir and any other NPCs that are still giving dialogue options based on achievements. These dialogue options should flag from whether an individual character has completed quests in the Dark Brotherhood or the Thieves Guild, not from the account achievement. Please don't leave these beautiful and beautifully voice acted quest NPCs in a state that contradicts individual character choices and quest completion (or lack of quest completion).

This is a screenshot of the dialogue on my non-DB alt who never set foot in the Gold Coast or Hew's Bane:

Kesstryl · March 2022

Another person tested this also using both PTS and live. On live their non-Dark Brotherhood, non-Thieves Guild level 4 alt did get the "I'm no saint" option which should not be there for that specific alt (on live that person did have the achievements for joining the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild). On PTS with a new account and no achievements for joining the DB/TG, the "I'm no saint" option was not there for a new character at all. Please fix NPCs to reflect the quest state of our alts and decouple these dialogue options from achievements!

Reports of ambient NPC dialogue talking about things those alts have never done as that alt passes by are still happening. Ambient NPC chatter should only trigger from quest completion, including dungeon and trial quests and guild quests. Please decouple all NPC dialogue and ambient chatter from achievements and move these triggers to quest completion checks!

Aztrias · March 2022

I get normal dialogue from him on a non-DB/TG alt

TG character:

*I have completed TG and TB and got all the achievements.

Ilsabet · March 2022

Kesstryl wrote: »

Another person tested this also using both PTS and live. On live their non-Dark Brotherhood, non-Thieves Guild level 4 alt did get the "I'm no saint" option which should not be there for that specific alt (on live that person did have the achievements for joining the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild). On PTS with a new account and no achievements for joining the DB/TG, the "I'm no saint" option was not there for a new character at all. Please fix NPCs to reflect the quest state of our alts and decouple these dialogue options from achievements!

Hopping in to correct what may have been a misunderstanding about my testing. All of my testing was done on live, and the level 4 alt with no TG/DB skill line unlocks never got the "I'm no saint." dialogue option that leads to acknowledgment of membership in one or both of those groups, even though she has (via the main character on that account, which is PC/EU) achievements for joining both groups. She also didn't get it after unlocking the TG skill line via opening a thieves trove.

My current theory is that the TG/DB dialogue is triggered by an advanced achievement such as completing the quest lines for either DLC, which my EU main character has not completed.

My testing on PC/NA is here, and on PC/EU is here. Both on live.

Kesstryl · March 2022

Ilsabet wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

Another person tested this also using both PTS and live. On live their non-Dark Brotherhood, non-Thieves Guild level 4 alt did get the "I'm no saint" option which should not be there for that specific alt (on live that person did have the achievements for joining the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild). On PTS with a new account and no achievements for joining the DB/TG, the "I'm no saint" option was not there for a new character at all. Please fix NPCs to reflect the quest state of our alts and decouple these dialogue options from achievements!

Hopping in to correct what may have been a misunderstanding about my testing. All of my testing was done on live, and the level 4 alt with no TG/DB skill line unlocks never got the "I'm no saint." dialogue option that leads to acknowledgment of membership in one or both of those groups, even though she has (via the main character on that account, which is PC/EU) achievements for joining both groups. She also didn't get it after unlocking the TG skill line via opening a thieves trove.

My current theory is that the TG/DB dialogue is triggered by an advanced achievement such as completing the quest lines for either DLC, which my EU main character has not completed.

My testing on PC/NA is here, and on PC/EU is here. Both on live.

Edit - I see what you are saying. I do think there is a specific achievement triggering it as another player reported having the "I'm no saint" dialogue option on a non DB/TG alt on live. My test was for the entire DB main quest, and that was enough to trigger it, but the other player said they had the skill line completed but didn't do any of the quests, so clearly things were changed between PTS and live, but there may still be an achievement problem.

All of this could be alleviated if the FULL patch notes were released and nothing was held back. ZOS needs to communicate whether or not they have been working on decoupling NPC dialogue from achievements.

PrinceShroob · March 2022

Note that the PTS is not updated to the current live patch and there are often fixes not noted in the patch notes. You’ll have to check this on live to see if it’s actually a bug.

wolfgirlb14_ESO · March 2022

I just started the Russafeld quest on a new character that I went straight to Summerset with from the tutorial. I did not get the "I'm no saint" option on her. Even though my main character has completed both the TG and DB questlines. I don't have the PTS.

Kesstryl · March 2022

wolfgirlb14_ESO wrote: »

I just started the Russafeld quest on a new character that I went straight to Summerset with from the tutorial. I did not get the "I'm no saint" option on her. Even though my main character has completed both the TG and DB questlines. I don't have the PTS.

Do you have the skill lines completed in addition to the quest lines?

wolfgirlb14_ESO · March 2022

Yes, I do. I have both the TG skill master and DB skill master achievements.

Kesstryl · March 2022

wolfgirlb14_ESO wrote: »

Yes, I do. I have both the TG skill master and DB skill master achievements.

Let me link you to another thread where someone has been actively testing NPCs. Her results are similar to mine:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/600993/results-of-account-wide-achievements-testing-on-live-npc-interactions#latest

Reposting the important part without quotes so it doesn't get collapsed:

Conclusively found to be working improperly:

Undaunted ghost in the Hollow City tavern addresses level 31 alt as Undaunted who has completed Vaults of Madness, even though she has not unlocked the Undaunted skill line and has not completed Vaults of Madness.

Confirmed to be working properly (i.e. NPC interactions are based on individual character's progress rather than inherited achievements):

Dialogue related to Dark Brotherhood membership in the Blackwood main questline reflects character's actual membership status.
DLC and prologue quest-starters appear if character has not completed their quests.
Mel Adrys In Hrota Cave, Gold Coast (notices if you’re a vampire and if you completed certain parts of the AD main quest)
Niralin in Archon’s Grove, Summerset (notices if you’re a werewolf)
Gabrielle Benele in Anvil, Gold Coast and Solitude, Western Skyrim (comments on a lost party member from the vanilla main quest)
Zhasim in Southern Elsweyr (comments if you met him in Wrothgar)
Valsirenn in the Deadlands (comments if you met her in Summerset)
Numerous references to quests in Daggerfall and Elden Root, reflecting pre-quest status for quests not completed by the character.

Inconclusive based on my testing:

Tarnamir in Russafeld, Summerset (notices if you’re in the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood)

- Character with TG skill line unlocked and full loadout of inherited achievements was identified as a criminal; another character (on PC/EU) with only basic achievements inherited did not get criminal dialogue both with and without TG skill line unlocked. Currently theorizing that dialogue trigger comes from an advanced achievement possibly related to questline completion; however, as reported here, on PS5 a character with 0 DB quest completion and the full DB skill line unlocked via Crown Store also got the criminal dialogue.

Kesstryl · March 2022

Including report an Undaunted Quest NPC bug posted by another player where an alt is getting credit for doing Vaults of Madness when said alt never did that dungeon:

Ilsabet wrote: »

Today Captain Medusa Herring is taking a break from pirating and being generally lazy to see whether any random townsfolk wish to give her credit for heroic deeds she had nothing to do with. PC/NA, live.

The Daggerfall town crier is making a big deal about a plague in Camlorn that Medusa is pretty sure someone else has already taken care of:

(She does not, however, appear to be terribly concerned about the large mostly-naked man punching local residents.)

Medusa was hoping this fellow would offer to buy her an ale, but instead he seems to be complaining about that friendly dog she met earlier:

So that was all fairly disappointing. But then she ran across this drunk ghost, who thought Medusa had vanquished a dungeon she's pretty sure she can't even go to yet:

Come to think of it, Medusa hasn't even run across those Undaunted swabs yet. She should probably do that sometime.

There was also a fellow in Daggerfall who thought Medusa was the one who brought those Pellingare brats to justice, but Medusa is pretty sure she hasn't been in those particular sewers. Okay I need to retract this one, I hopped into Wayrest 1 to make sure, and there's no quest-giver there so it appears Medusa has actually completed it on some random normal or other. I'll move this one to the "inconclusive" pile and see if she gets any other comments on dungeons she has or hasn't done.

So it seems like group dungeon achievements may be triggering ambient comments, even if the character hasn't completed the dungeon(s) themselves, but at least with these particular zone quests, the commentary is based on quest completion rather than any related achievements other characters may have earned.