Final incremental patch before the update - Seething Fury still bugged

Cloudless · March 2022

Just a reminder that the sound bug for Molten Whip's Seething Fury is still a thing and hasn't been addressed yet.

xylena_lazarow · March 2022

Yea there's a very loud humming sound stuck forever if you finish combat with stacks of Seething Fury active.

Cloudless · March 2022

I'm really, really surprised this hasn't been reported more often or more vocally. Do most DK players just play with their audio off?

Necrotech_Master · March 2022

im not going to lie i honestly never even noticed seething fury had an audio cue, and i do play with the sound on, but its possible it was getting drowned out over the 200 other things going on when im fighting lol

Cloudless · March 2022

Might as well remove the audio cue completely, we still have the visual one and that one hasn't been bugged for over four months.

Eormenric · March 2022

Well, if this is anything like the Yandir sound bug, it'll never get fixed. Just going to have to deal with it, not use the spell, or turn off sound.

Cloudless · March 2022

Yeah, but Yandir is a set, we're talking about a whole class spammable here.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Marcus_Thracius · March 2022

Start looking at the bugs as features . ESO will become the best game in the universe

Cloudless · March 2022

Myeah, I don't really care for the [snip] attitude that seems to be so popular on the forums - I keep bumping this hoping for the devs to notice/acknowledge the issue, not to enable pointless remarks.

[Edit for language.]

McTaterskins · March 2022

Cloudless wrote: »

Myeah, I don't really care for the [snip] attitude that seems to be so popular on the forums - I keep bumping this hoping for the devs to notice/acknowledge the issue, not to enable pointless remarks.

[Edit for language.]

I'm not sure I'd call it 'attitude' as much as an acknowledgement of factual trends.

ZOS_GinaBruno · March 2022

Hey all, just want to let you know we are aware of this issue and have it documented to fix in a future patch.

hafgood · March 2022

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, just want to let you know we are aware of this issue and have it documented to fix in a future patch.

Just out of curiosity which patch? Why not in the update? If you know what the problem is why not fix it rather than putting out a bland statement like this?

Future patch? That could be this year, next year, five years, never. Try to actually give some meaningful information when you respond to threads such as these.

Assign it to a patch number and put on the thread the expected patch release its assigned to. Its not hard to do, it really isn't. Try a bit of transparency for a change instead of the usual flannel.

rauyran · March 2022

hafgood wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, just want to let you know we are aware of this issue and have it documented to fix in a future patch.

Just out of curiosity which patch? Why not in the update? If you know what the problem is why not fix it rather than putting out a bland statement like this?

Future patch? That could be this year, next year, five years, never. Try to actually give some meaningful information when you respond to threads such as these.

Assign it to a patch number and put on the thread the expected patch release its assigned to. Its not hard to do, it really isn't. Try a bit of transparency for a change instead of the usual flannel.

Imagine this: you have 10 developers and 2500 bugs and features in your backlog. You only get to pick 5 things per developer to work on for the next patch because on average each thing takes a week to implement and a week to test across all platforms and you need a buffer of 4 weeks for the PTS. So you pick 50 bugs/features and get started.

You can't assign the other 2450 bugs to future patches because the world isn't static and unchanging. While you are working on this patch another 25 bugs might be uncovered and some of those might be super critical to get in the next patch, meaning you have to reassign everything. So you don't know what patch something will be in until it's in the pick list for the next patch.

hafgood · March 2022

rauyran wrote: »

Imagine this: you have 10 developers and 2500 bugs and features in your backlog. You only get to pick 5 things per developer to work on for the next patch because on average each thing takes a week to implement and a week to test across all platforms and you need a buffer of 4 weeks for the PTS. So you pick 50 bugs/features and get started.

You can't assign the other 2450 bugs to future patches because the world isn't static and unchanging. While you are working on this patch another 25 bugs might be uncovered and some of those might be super critical to get in the next patch, meaning you have to reassign everything. So you don't know what patch something will be in until it's in the pick list for the next patch.

[snip]

Instead imagine this.

A software company that actually plans its workload, not patch by patch but has an actual road map of patches and releases.

Each release (update) will have its assigned new content but will also have a number of bugs assigned to it.

Each planned patch will also have a number of bugs assigned to it but these may change if something major comes up.

It's not hard to assign a specific bug to a specific patch or update.

It might need to move from one patch to another but the chances are once its assigned to a patch it will be fixed in that patch.

And yes software companies such as this exist, I work for one. It's not a gaming company but is a major software company in the UK that delivers 4 major releases every year along with numerous patches as needed to its software. This software is used by mutiple clients and pays out / receives billions of pounds a year. The bugs list is available to our customers and they can see if it has been assigned to a future release. And if it hasn't they can ask for, and receive, an update as to the status of the bug.

If the company I work for can do this, Zos can do this. And they probably do do this, it's the most efficient way to work. They just need to share this with us.

[Edit for misinformation.]

Marto · March 2022

It's not that deep guys. The fix is just not ready and will need a couple more days of work/testing/certification before it can be released.

All patches require 1-3 weeks of testing and certification. There's deadlines and processes that have to be followed.

hafgood · March 2022

Marto wrote: »

It's not that deep guys. The fix is just not ready and will need a couple more days of work/testing/certification before it can be released.

All patches require 1-3 weeks of testing and certification. There's deadlines and processes that have to be followed.

I accept that. However there is nothing that states when that fix will be ready, just that it will be added to a future patch, not the next patch, but a future patch.

If you are happy with that then great, they've said they will fix it and they will, sometime.

I'm just asking for a more realistic timetable than "sometime"

If something is faulty you want it fixed? Yes? And you want it fixed to a realistic timespan? Yes?

All I'm asking for is to know what that timespan is.

ZOS_GinaBruno · March 2022

hafgood wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, just want to let you know we are aware of this issue and have it documented to fix in a future patch.

Just out of curiosity which patch? Why not in the update? If you know what the problem is why not fix it rather than putting out a bland statement like this?

Future patch? That could be this year, next year, five years, never. Try to actually give some meaningful information when you respond to threads such as these.

Assign it to a patch number and put on the thread the expected patch release its assigned to. Its not hard to do, it really isn't. Try a bit of transparency for a change instead of the usual flannel.

We know there's a problem, yes, but a fix hasn't been worked on yet so there's no way to know which patch the fix will go into. There are a lot of other tasks for the team to get through that have already been prioritized and while there is always time set aside for bug fixes, there is a balancing act to figure out which things get worked on and when (this is all the job of our production team). We'd be happy to give a better timeframe when a fix for the issue is done internally. It has nothing to do with not wanting to communicate, the inability for us to fix it, or the desire to fix things that are broken.

hafgood · March 2022

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno for your response. So, please correct me if I have it wrong.

1. You agree its a bug
2. You have not yet started working on it
3. You have no idea when you will work on it
4. In fact you may never work on it as it may never become a high enough priority bug.

Thats fine but don't say it will go in a future patch where you cannot say it will do. If it's going in a future patch assign it to a patch to be cleared in.

If its going into the bug pool to be worked on if someone gets the time to do so say that.

You've raised expectations of a fix (and reading one of the posts after my initial post - that expectation is for the first patch after U33) when no fix is in the pipeline.

When I talk about transparency this is what I'm talking about. Be honest with us, we understand that bugs happen and they take time to fix, but don't raise expectations or tell borderline lies in order to placate your players.

LonePirate · March 2022

I think it’s amazing that people believe ZOS has an army of developers just sitting around their computers waiting for bugs they can fix or other work they can do. If anything, the paucity of fixes, changes and new features in next week’s DLC and this year’s chapter suggests there’s basically a skeleton crew of staff barely keeping the servers running for this game. Players need to drastically tone down their expectations going forward, if only to reduce future disappointments from ZOS.

hafgood · March 2022

Personally I'm not disappointed, however, I do understand how reputable software companies work.

My expectations - if I'm told a bug will be fixed in a future release i expect to be able to ask the question which one and to be told we are hoping to get it in either patch x or y or update z or aa.

If I'm told a bug will be fixed but has yet to be assigned to a patch or update i expect in the future to be able to ask for an update. Even if that update is still its not assigned to a patch.

Zos will have a number of developers, its up to them how they utilise them, if they do not have sufficient resources then they need to increase those resources even if only on a temporary basis.

I would also expect them to have a release program and a release manager whose job it is to make sure the release schedule and content is planned and to be making sure adequate resources are in place.

I'm simply asking questions that the release manager should be able to answer.

rauyran · March 2022

hafgood wrote: »

Personally I'm not disappointed, however, I do understand how reputable software companies work.

My expectations - if I'm told a bug will be fixed in a future release i expect to be able to ask the question which one and to be told we are hoping to get it in either patch x or y or update z or aa.

Impossible if it is still in the backlog and unassigned to a patch. It will be fixed in future, but that could be 6 months or 3 years away.

hafgood wrote: »

If I'm told a bug will be fixed but has yet to be assigned to a patch or update i expect in the future to be able to ask for an update. Even if that update is still its not assigned to a patch.

Fair point.

hafgood wrote: »

Zos will have a number of developers, its up to them how they utilise them, if they do not have sufficient resources then they need to increase those resources even if only on a temporary basis.

I would also expect them to have a release program and a release manager whose job it is to make sure the release schedule and content is planned and to be making sure adequate resources are in place.

I'm simply asking questions that the release manager should be able to answer.

Reading between the lines, this bug has been classified as non game breaking and not exploitable and has a workaround. That puts it low on the backlog and no-one, not even the release manager has a clue when it will be released because it's not assigned to any particular patches. It's not important enough to spend $10k+ hiring a contractor temporarily to fix.

Urzigurumash · March 2022

What about just editing the sound file to make it a more soothing tone, to better allow us to enter a meditative state while practicing our Akaviri Martial Tradition?

Even better if it harmonizes well with Beckoning Steel - which I think has the exact same tone right now.

ZOS_GregoryV · March 2022

Greetings all!

After removing a handful of posts, we would like to remind everyone that Flaming is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:

Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

misfitmanic · March 2022

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all!

After removing a handful of posts, we would like to remind everyone that Flaming is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:
Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

How about you fine folks deliver a working product. Stop shipping broken content, as this is the single greatest reason your game is dying. Nobody likes playing a broken game full of bugs that get pushed to the backburner. If you know the content is buggy, hold back the release, until each and every known issue has been addressed. It really is that simple.

If you send it the way it is, you will only lose more active players who are tired of getting burned every DLC/Chapter release that is shipped with KNOWN issues. Just stop already.

FYI ZOS, I logged in to the forums for first time in months just to post this, because, well, y'all should know that yet another long term player (7 years!) is going to pass on your DLC because of this exact situation. And I know it is not just you folks, and that shipping broken content with a "patch it later" mentality is the current trend across the entire software industry, but you CAN break the trend and do things right, if you want to, if you really care about your player base, and not just making another quick cash grab.

Aardappelboom · March 2022

hafgood wrote: »

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno for your response. So, please correct me if I have it wrong.

1. You agree its a bug
2. You have not yet started working on it
3. You have no idea when you will work on it
4. In fact you may never work on it as it may never become a high enough priority bug.

Thats fine but don't say it will go in a future patch where you cannot say it will do. If it's going in a future patch assign it to a patch to be cleared in.

If its going into the bug pool to be worked on if someone gets the time to do so say that.

You've raised expectations of a fix (and reading one of the posts after my initial post - that expectation is for the first patch after U33) when no fix is in the pipeline.

When I talk about transparency this is what I'm talking about. Be honest with us, we understand that bugs happen and they take time to fix, but don't raise expectations or tell borderline lies in order to placate your players.

It's not honesty you really want, it's commitment, and that's warranted but it's also very personal. While I think, based on how the game is and runs today, Gina's comment is probably very honest: there's a bug, it's one of many and it wil get a fix in a future patch, it's pure honesty because at the moment there's no way of knowing when the bug will get fixed, because it's nothing more than a known issue.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I kind of get what @ZOS_GinaBruno is saying. Now, what I think the real problem is is that no one knows which other bugs are being prioritized and how they get prioritized, there's no way of knowing for us why the seething fury bug (or any other personally annoying bug of choice) is staying unfixed and, except for raising voices on a forum, there's no way for us to have impact on the priority and that always resulted in not understanding why these bugs aren't being fixed.

I think it would really help if ZOS gave some more insights in their bugfixing process, and allow some more input from players on the prioritization. We'd probably understand if there's a list of bugs and our bug didn't make the cut because other fixes are more important for the playerbase but at least we can put it into perspective and there can be argumentation behind it that we can at least understand. If a game is not game breaking and there's a business reason not the give it priority, but the player base is really vocal about it, then there suddenly is a business reason to fix it so it's always better to get the input and let it weigh in in the prioritzation of your bugs.

Uservoice does this, there's even Jira plugins that allow user input, ZOS should really try this with the PTS crowd and probably start asking for input before they decide which bugs are going to get into the next patch. Even if they'd start with allowing input for a handful of bugs, it would probably already go a long way and it would allow for a lot more positive communciation with the playerbase. You could even get a closed ESO Bughunting community going to make the input manageable, people will love it and a lot of people would be more than happy to help shape the future of the game.

Just a random thought though, really

(edited because there was some weird formatting error 😅)

Volckodav · March 2022

if that can give you some perspective my main ultimate as a DK, LEAP, it's still not usable in IC, so as a main PVP player that completly shut me of the zone I love the most to play...and it's like that since +1 year!!!

So yes I imagine that's lot of stuff done, more important etc.. but I would love to have some real communication in the form of a bug backlog shared with the community because I really dont understand what I am paying for atm

francesinhalover · March 2022

Cloudless wrote: »

Just a reminder that the sound bug for Molten Whip's Seething Fury is still a thing and hasn't been addressed yet.

Same for dragon knights leap, relequen missing visual effect , twice fanged missing visual, weapon stuck bellow chars feet, outlaw daggers glitched visual enchant , thieves guild heavy armor left leg glitch while running. Plus others.

It will probably never be fixed

francesinhalover · March 2022

LonePirate wrote: »

I think it’s amazing that people believe ZOS has an army of developers just sitting around their computers waiting for bugs they can fix or other work they can do. If anything, the paucity of fixes, changes and new features in next week’s DLC and this year’s chapter suggests there’s basically a skeleton crew of staff barely keeping the servers running for this game. Players need to drastically tone down their expectations going forward, if only to reduce future disappointments from ZOS.

I have, i and others from the guild just accept that when something critical we love ingame breaks we will report it and probably uninstall eso for years if not forever. Because we know it most likely will never be fixed.

Look up, i have seen so many glitches unfixed. But what bothers me is shiping armor motifs with floating pieces no one wants to use.
Look at the outfit reward for south elsweyr miss 3 has no flaps yet swords float

Jarl_Ironheart · September 2022

I just wanted to give everyone a update on the audio glitch. It is still here even now. They have not fixed it yet. It's been 6 months. This needs to be address. It's keeping me from playing DK. That sound gives me a headache and gets annoying really fast. Please fix it

Warstory · October 2022

This bug is still there and has been since sometime in 2021. Has anyone found a way to disable the sound, and addon to mute it, or an audio file to delete?

Sergykid · October 2022

there's a sound looping on seething fury? i didn't notice anything, let alone a "loud" one. But i played dk in long fight times so maybe didn't "proc" the bug.

anyway this barely deserves attention, there's more important things to care about, when i see such bugs as this one fixed in patch notes i ask myself how they even find these and why do they bother with them when there's others more important