How can I measure different character progression after the next update?

etchedpixels · February 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

So there are almost 70 pages of comments on the official thread. I don’t think I have time to even speed read those.

I am on console so I cannot use the PTS myself to see how it works.

So what happens with skyshards and delve clears and such. Do alts get the skyshards automatically if my main has them? That would be helpful to have those skill points automatically.

No - because they are available to buy in the cash shop.

If you use the extra cash shop armoury slots instead of characters however it's different.

Generally speaking you can still do each thing on each character but as it stands on the PTS at the moment
- Tracking what you have done is broken, so you can't tell what you have left to complete (delves, dungeons, group dungeon skill points, public dungeon skill points etc)
- Lots of the questing is broken in various ways and only a few have so far been fixed, so all the dialogue and background chatter that is tied to achievements is wrong which rather wrecks any game immersion

Given the whole mess is supposed to be going live very soon it seems a lot of those bugs will not got fixed, and then presumably will always not get fixed because "people want new content"

Tan9oSuccka · February 2022

It sounds like performance may be improved not tracking all the ticky tack individual character achievements.

I hope that will be true though PVE performance has always been solid for me.

PvP is a different story. Some hard core latent players there.

Daimonion82 · February 2022

I really don't care about achievements or titles, but they are really the only way to check character progression. It's a terrible change. You have an alt, you didn't play with him for two years, you want to play him again - you have no idea, which story content you did. Just great...
Are we supposed to write manually all acquired shyshards, because now we won't be able to check that in achievements tab? And all group dungeons? And... Style pages learned on a specific char...
We'll all end like Valaste, chasing butterflies.

Araneae6537 · February 2022

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

AlnilamE · February 2022

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no decent suggestions apart from having to now do this manually OUTSIDE of the game?!

Does that not show how utterly ridiculous these changes are?

And as for the excuse, that it *may* (note, not *will*) enhance future performance in some vague way?! 🤣🤣

If the database cannot cope with this data, then the database is in incredibly poor shape & needs proper management. And money.

I'll have to wait until NA characters are back on the PTS next week, but I think the full-on zone guide will track things correctly, even if the summary you see while looking at the map will not. But that requires more clicks than now, and I have no idea how consoles handle the Zone Guide.

I will have more info next week.

CombatCoati · February 2022

AlnilamE wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no decent suggestions apart from having to now do this manually OUTSIDE of the game?!

Does that not show how utterly ridiculous these changes are?

And as for the excuse, that it *may* (note, not *will*) enhance future performance in some vague way?! 🤣🤣

If the database cannot cope with this data, then the database is in incredibly poor shape & needs proper management. And money.

I'll have to wait until NA characters are back on the PTS next week, but I think the full-on zone guide will track things correctly, even if the summary you see while looking at the map will not. But that requires more clicks than now, and I have no idea how consoles handle the Zone Guide.

I will have more info next week.

Unfortunately, the zone guide only gives the same information as the map, I just rechecked on the PTS to be sure.

.

Jusey1 · February 2022

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

etchedpixels · February 2022

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

The problem is the mess they've made of implementing it at this point. What's the point of having a second character who from day one gets dialogue as if they had done everything in the game your main had, and where you can't progress the character properly because all the dialogue and all the guidance on what quests you need to do are broken ?

A lot of it isn't the idea, it's the awful implementation. I doubt many would have minded too much if things like the in game maps and zone guides still worked properly, the random background dialogue was not wrong and the quests were not buggy.

So far they've managed to half fix the zone guide, patch one quest where two people sat on the throne at once, and that's about it.

AlnilamE · February 2022

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

50% would be a pretty large percentage by any measure.

I think a lot of people wanted an account-wide tracking of achievement, but I don't think anyone wanted a complete obliteration of character individuality in an MMORPG.

Dojohoda · February 2022

Regarding the achievement journal:
What we have now = luxury mansion
What we are getting = leaky tent

AlnilamE · February 2022

CombatCoati wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

So, no decent suggestions apart from having to now do this manually OUTSIDE of the game?!

Does that not show how utterly ridiculous these changes are?

And as for the excuse, that it *may* (note, not *will*) enhance future performance in some vague way?! 🤣🤣

If the database cannot cope with this data, then the database is in incredibly poor shape & needs proper management. And money.

I'll have to wait until NA characters are back on the PTS next week, but I think the full-on zone guide will track things correctly, even if the summary you see while looking at the map will not. But that requires more clicks than now, and I have no idea how consoles handle the Zone Guide.

I will have more info next week.

Unfortunately, the zone guide only gives the same information as the map, I just rechecked on the PTS to be sure.

.

Ooof. That's not what I expected.

Off-topic: I love the German names for stuff! :-)

zaria · February 2022

etchedpixels wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

The problem is the mess they've made of implementing it at this point. What's the point of having a second character who from day one gets dialogue as if they had done everything in the game your main had, and where you can't progress the character properly because all the dialogue and all the guidance on what quests you need to do are broken ?

A lot of it isn't the idea, it's the awful implementation. I doubt many would have minded too much if things like the in game maps and zone guides still worked properly, the random background dialogue was not wrong and the quests were not buggy.

So far they've managed to half fix the zone guide, patch one quest where two people sat on the throne at once, and that's about it.

Agree, I like the idea of shared titles. And shared achievements help with some of the more gridy ones.
But messing up quest progression is bad and the npc reactions to you is something I enjoy.
Think I done all guests in ESO, have one in Cyrodil but think its just an bugged redirect quest as I know I done it

Tandor · February 2022

etchedpixels wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

The problem is the mess they've made of implementing it at this point. What's the point of having a second character who from day one gets dialogue as if they had done everything in the game your main had, and where you can't progress the character properly because all the dialogue and all the guidance on what quests you need to do are broken ?

A lot of it isn't the idea, it's the awful implementation. I doubt many would have minded too much if things like the in game maps and zone guides still worked properly, the random background dialogue was not wrong and the quests were not buggy.

So far they've managed to half fix the zone guide, patch one quest where two people sat on the throne at once, and that's about it.

Indeed, that's the minimum requirement for me to reinstate my 2 ESO+ subscriptions (which will be cancelled if the present mess goes Live) and start playing my multiple characters on those accounts again.

JKorr · February 2022

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

Brand new level 3 still in coldharbor pjs character stumbles ashore at bleakrock

Random npc: You were there at Faldar's Tooth to stop Thallick!

Brand new level 3: Huh?

Random npc 2:Did they really call Balreth to fight the Daggers at Davon's Watch?

Brand new level 3: Huh?

Random npc3: You stopped the planemeld and saved Tamriel.

Brand new level 3: yells Divines NO and runs back into the water but doesn't get the "killed by slaughterfish" achievement because an earlier alt already did it.

Yeah. I've been playing since beta/early access. My main made at early release character has gotten just about every achievement I'm interested in getting for her. There are achievements I do NOT want to get on her, but if I play the game with alts, she'll get all the ones I don't want her to have. The "dark side" alts that I WANT the darker achievements on will end up with all the achievements my main worked for, even though those achievements don't fit the characters. Not particularly thrilled with the everything is now one thing state of affairs. In fact rapidly losing interest in playing any of my alts, let alone make a new one that will have some quests blocked because my main or other alts already did them. Not looking forward to having the map complete just because my new character walked past a cave/dungeon/delve/ruin my main/other alts already did. Why bother to explore anything?

Vevvev · February 2022

Imagine on an alt not doing a quest because you got tired of a certain line of dialogue..... Evil cackling that slowly shifts to crying.

OldStygian · February 2022

Jusey1 wrote: »

I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

Can you expand on why? So far I've only read people saying they want this so they don't have to grind for some specific, hard to get achievements with each toon. Are there any other reasons?

For the record I'm currently strongly against account wide achievements and titles.

Thanks

Tandor · February 2022

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

Is that purely based on the principle, or have you been either playing on the PTS or following the feedback thread on the PTS forum and still love the change in the way that it is implemented?

Zephiran23 · February 2022

Delve bosses not triggering on the 1st visit is going to be hard one for ZOS to monitor accurately.

"Oh look all these players are now spending longer in these delves that took so many hours to create. We must be doing something better on that team, great work."

Meanwhile you've got a heap of non-forum reading/posting players standing around getting frustrated that the boss isn't there, they aren't getting zone gear drops and their daily quest is taking longer to complete (I know bosses aren't usually part of them, but early on most players seem happy to spend a small amount of extra time to kill them, or at least check if they are up). Then the boss does spawn and dies in a few seconds to multiple ultimates, none of its mechanics get to work and almost no one leaves happy with the experience, except the tank geared player who turned up last.

So less players doing delves for daily quests, fewer motif drops as quest rewards, decreasing the chance of duplicate drops, leading to higher prices being requested, leading to more inflation.

Jeffrey530 · February 2022

KaosWarMonk wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

Can you expand on why? So far I've only read people saying they want this so they don't have to grind for some specific, hard to get achievements with each toon. Are there any other reasons?

For the record I'm currently strongly against account wide achievements and titles.

Thanks

Well i love this change due to the reason you provided and is it not a valid enough reason for you? To me I am the one playing the game, alts are just tools and I don't see why I need to get the same achievement on different alts. Similarly, I like collecting achievements and it has 'forced' me to do pve, pvp, everything on my same main char, which with this change now I can try out othe classes in end game without worrying I would need to grind the same achievement in my main.

I understand people have different opinion/ways to play the game so a toggle or an overall achievement page would make everyone happy imo.

starkerealm · February 2022

AlnilamE wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

50% would be a pretty large percentage by any measure.

I think a lot of people wanted an account-wide tracking of achievement, but I don't think anyone wanted a complete obliteration of character individuality in an MMORPG.

More than 50% of the community don't even know this is coming. So, they can't have an opinion on the subject. What we're looking at here is more like a 0.5%/0.5% split, with the other 99% of the community who either don't care, or aren't aware it's a thing. Even then, statistically? I'm being overly generous, and I suspect more either won't care than will, or will be happy with the change. Suddenly, you no longer need to worry about catching fish, or getting a monster trophy on the wrong character. It won't matter if you get your SCP No Death in a PUG, but it's, again, "on the wrong character," because you've got speed and HM on a different character.

Beyond that, I really suspect it's more lopsided than this.

People who use Skyshards are going to be affected until it's patched up (it's going to need a bit of a rewrite.)

[snip]

[Edit for Bait.]

OldStygian · February 2022

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

I understand people have different opinion/ways to play the game so a toggle or an overall achievement page would make everyone happy imo.

This.

You play the game as a single character so one set of achievements fits. For me I have 9 characters, all very different, and therefore I'd like to track what each of them has done.

I agree being able to choose would be ideal. Or just get the db sorted properly and let us have both character and account achievement pages.

SerafinaWaterstar · February 2022

starkerealm wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Jusey1 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

they failed to anticipate a large percentage of the community seeing the entire idea as a QOL deterioration rather than improvement.

I think the community is more split 50/50 on this. I, for one, love the change and been wanting to have achievements be account wide for a very long time.

50% would be a pretty large percentage by any measure.

I think a lot of people wanted an account-wide tracking of achievement, but I don't think anyone wanted a complete obliteration of character individuality in an MMORPG.

More than 50% of the community don't even know this is coming. So, they can't have an opinion on the subject…….

[snip]

[Edited for Bait.]

The lack of communication on this change is shocking.

[snip]

People have different ways of playing - some only see alts as tools, and some see their different characters almost as if they were separate accounts but at least having individual achievements and Zos has encouraged their way for the last 8 years.

Achievements are intertwined with progress tracking in the game. If you wish to play through the game on another character, its going to be hard to see what they have or haven’t done, especially if your main has done everything after this update. That reduces replayability of a game, which is madness.

Those sounding a warning are not being desperate. They are worried that this is going to be game-breaking, especially if the version on the pts goes live.

[Edit for Bait.]

morrowjen · February 2022

How is this going to effect PUGs, especially for vet trials and arenas? Achievements matter a ton when putting together PUGs for certain content and while I understand the argument that it's the player that has and retains the skills, I also know I have more than one toon that has zero business in a vet trial or arena.

RevJJ · February 2022

A lot of changes and implementations that have happened over the last few months have led me to wonder one thing.

Does anyone at ZOS even play ESO?

Because it seems like they only look at theoretical successes and not what is actually happening and what it’s doing to players’ enjoyment of the game.

katanagirl1 · February 2022

The reason given for doing this was that it is necessary for reducing data to move forward. I can go along with that, if the dev team has done the testing to prove that indeed this will improve things.

Need I remind everyone that reducing group size, and out of group healing, and removing proc sets, was supposed to help but it did nothing but hamper our ability to PvP effectively as a faction.

I wonder if proc sets being ”disabled” meant that they actually still did all the calculations anyway and just didn’t actually go through with the end effect. That would not be the way to reduce the strain on the servers.

Lauranae · February 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

The reason given for doing this was that it is necessary for reducing data to move forward. I can go along with that, if the dev team has done the testing to prove that indeed this will improve things.

Need I remind everyone that reducing group size, and out of group healing, and removing proc sets, was supposed to help but it did nothing but hamper our ability to PvP effectively as a faction.

I wonder if proc sets being ”disabled” meant that they actually still did all the calculations anyway and just didn’t actually go through with the end effect. That would not be the way to reduce the strain on the servers.

So they sold us a game with full animation, sets procs and now because only god know what they are doing, you find it normal they downside the value of the game again and all for PVP ?

Tell me you are kidding ....

and even now, the event is full of reload screen, send back to desktop, booted for no reason, so if i follow your idea .... lets remove totally pve and say good bye so all pvper can have the game, but probably not for long as the game will shut down with not enough subs.

Mayrael · February 2022

FaylenSol wrote: »

Quest progress, zone guide, skill level, crafting levels, undaunted/mages guild/fighters guild levels, skill points, etc.

Tons of ways to track progress. 90% of the achievements weren't useful for tracking progress or were just an annoying grind to get on multiple characters.

I really don't want to get Nature Slayer on every character for example.

This. Side quests in zones aren't represented by achievements anyway. Main quests? Zone guide. When it goes to character development - character and skill windows.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

FaylenSol wrote: »

Quest progress, zone guide, skill level, crafting levels, undaunted/mages guild/fighters guild levels, skill points, etc.

Tons of ways to track progress.

Most of those are just character power/skill level. They don't track anything about your zones, quests, story progression, etc.

And as mentioned, the zone guide will only be partially useful if at all.

Achievements don't work that anyway even on live now. As I wrote before zone story? Zone guide. Side quests? Achievements doesn't represent that on live anyway. The only thing you can lose is info about visiting certain places or not. Personally and most people I talked about this in game are happy with AwA, because most of them play for story and quests which are almost not affected by AwA, they don't care did they visited some place just for view 18 times.

SerafinaWaterstar · February 2022

And as has been demonstrated & explained repeatedly - ZONE GUIDE DOES NOT WORK NOW.

And quests ARE affected.

(See Bug Reports for AWA on PTS forum bit. Not encouraging at all.)

Danikat · February 2022

morrowjen wrote: »

How is this going to effect PUGs, especially for vet trials and arenas? Achievements matter a ton when putting together PUGs for certain content and while I understand the argument that it's the player that has and retains the skills, I also know I have more than one toon that has zero business in a vet trial or arena.

Like that I assume. People who are competent enough to get the achievements PUGs ask for will also be competent enough to know which of their characters they can play there and which aren't suitable.

Either that or it was a flawed system all along and having the achievement doesn't actually demonstrate sufficient knowledge of the content to even known which class/build to bring, let alone how to use it, in which case it won't change anything.

starkerealm · February 2022

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

The lack of communication on this change is shocking.

It's not a lack of communication. This really is not an important issue for the vast majority of players.

Like, yes, it's extremely important for a handful of people, to the point that they're willing to cancel their subscriptions. But, most players don't care. Even I'm not especially worried about it. Yeah, I'm going to have some weird data on characters that completed specific achievements, and I'd argue there isn't a lot of reason to keep the, "earned by," tag on achievements, because that's not particularly relevant piece of information. But the players who use achievements to track individual characters is not the norm.

Most players don't care about their achievements to begin with. At least, not beyond, "do I get a thing for this?"