Rallying cry set Vs. Powerful Asst. + Transmutation: Should these sets be equivalent to one another?

Vaughndaunted · February 2022

Notice the images above… Rallying Cry is shy of making any sense compared to Powerful Assault. We get diminishing returns the more people we have in the group. That doesn’t make much sense. Powerful Assault outperforms it. Rallying cry fails to mold Transmutation and Powerful Assault into one set effectively.

See the sets listed below. While I’m making a point to show equivalent sets… maybe Rallying Cry would’ve been a better equivalent to Powerful Assault instead of merging 2 sets together. Rallying Cry is also obsolete in PVE since there is no battle spirit outside of PVP. As a PVE player, I am not happy with this set. I pay for the game too… at least make it viable in all content.

jaws343 · February 2022

Not every set needs to be viable in every part of the game. And this isn't the first time a set has been specific to either pvp or pve content, like Bahsei only works in PVE, and Imperial Physique only works in Imperial City.

Rallying Cry is also literally a set that is obtained in rewards of the worthy. It usefulness in PVE zones is irrelevant. You can use one of the 100s of other sets that work in PVE.

That all said, Rallying Cry is a pretty strong set for solo and small group play. It has very definite drawbacks to prevent it from being run by every large group in cyrodil, and really strong bonuses for the 5 piece that makes it almost a must run back bar set for smaller scale players. It really doesn't need any adjustments, and is shockingly one of the more balanced PVP sets in quite some time.

BXR_Lonestar · February 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Not every set needs to be viable in every part of the game. And this isn't the first time a set has been specific to either pvp or pve content, like Bahsei only works in PVE, and Imperial Physique only works in Imperial City.

Rallying Cry is also literally a set that is obtained in rewards of the worthy. It usefulness in PVE zones is irrelevant. You can use one of the 100s of other sets that work in PVE.

That all said, Rallying Cry is a pretty strong set for solo and small group play. It has very definite drawbacks to prevent it from being run by every large group in cyrodil, and really strong bonuses for the 5 piece that makes it almost a must run back bar set for smaller scale players. It really doesn't need any adjustments, and is shockingly one of the more balanced PVP sets in quite some time.

But unless they go back to where you can't cross-heal people outside of your own group, I don't see how the set is going to be completely useless. It'll be great to run with 2-3 other players to cap resources and outposts, but as soon as a few random players start following you, it's basically going to become worthless. And you can't control who/when people are following you so I can see most people opting to just not run it. The upside isn't nearly great enough to outweigh running SPC, and the downside is really out of your control.

Vaughndaunted · February 2022

@jaws343 you're absolutely right. I think this makes an amazing amount of sense. We can run small man groups. Someone could throw on SPC, PA, Transmutation, Magma Incarnate to buff a small ball group and tear things up.

Vaughndaunted · February 2022

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Not every set needs to be viable in every part of the game. And this isn't the first time a set has been specific to either pvp or pve content, like Bahsei only works in PVE, and Imperial Physique only works in Imperial City.

Rallying Cry is also literally a set that is obtained in rewards of the worthy. It usefulness in PVE zones is irrelevant. You can use one of the 100s of other sets that work in PVE.

That all said, Rallying Cry is a pretty strong set for solo and small group play. It has very definite drawbacks to prevent it from being run by every large group in cyrodil, and really strong bonuses for the 5 piece that makes it almost a must run back bar set for smaller scale players. It really doesn't need any adjustments, and is shockingly one of the more balanced PVP sets in quite some time.

But unless they go back to where you can't cross-heal people outside of your own group, I don't see how the set is going to be completely useless. It'll be great to run with 2-3 other players to cap resources and outposts, but as soon as a few random players start following you, it's basically going to become worthless. And you can't control who/when people are following you so I can see most people opting to just not run it. The upside isn't nearly great enough to outweigh running SPC, and the downside is really out of your control.

You make a great point as well. Makes sense. May need to be a IC group set or as you said, small resource group set.

jaws343 · February 2022

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Not every set needs to be viable in every part of the game. And this isn't the first time a set has been specific to either pvp or pve content, like Bahsei only works in PVE, and Imperial Physique only works in Imperial City.

Rallying Cry is also literally a set that is obtained in rewards of the worthy. It usefulness in PVE zones is irrelevant. You can use one of the 100s of other sets that work in PVE.

That all said, Rallying Cry is a pretty strong set for solo and small group play. It has very definite drawbacks to prevent it from being run by every large group in cyrodil, and really strong bonuses for the 5 piece that makes it almost a must run back bar set for smaller scale players. It really doesn't need any adjustments, and is shockingly one of the more balanced PVP sets in quite some time.

But unless they go back to where you can't cross-heal people outside of your own group, I don't see how the set is going to be completely useless. It'll be great to run with 2-3 other players to cap resources and outposts, but as soon as a few random players start following you, it's basically going to become worthless. And you can't control who/when people are following you so I can see most people opting to just not run it. The upside isn't nearly great enough to outweigh running SPC, and the downside is really out of your control.

The set only buffs people you are grouped with and only gives negative effects with people you are grouped with. So cross healing won't make a difference. So, if you crit heal an ally, you get the buff, and if you are solo, only you get the buff because it only applies to you and people in your group.

"causes you and up to 11 other group members "

It's very specific about applying the buff to only group members. If it could apply to others outside of the group it would say allies. But it only triggers on crit healing yourself or an ally.

BronzeCaiman · February 2022

Another thing to keep in mind is the 12m range of Rallying Cry, that is pretty small.

xDeusEJRx · February 2022

BlackArgonian wrote: »

Another thing to keep in mind is the 12m range of Rallying Cry, that is pretty small.

Tbh kind of disagree, it's slightly larger than dark convergence, and plus for a small group 12 meters is pretty perfect. In any small scale situation, most people will be right on top of you (except for ranged spammers and siegers) meaning they will almost always get hit even when they try to roll away or suddenly run away.

I can't imagine in a solo/small scale situation where you wouldn't be fighting within a 12 meter range anyway

Rageypoo · January 2023

20 meters makes more sense in pvp, the field is huge and players move around too much.

React · January 2023

What do you mean, at least make it viable in all content? How many sets are there that specifically increase damage to trial/dungeon monsters?

I personally love the concept of rallying cry, but I think they need to drastically increase the diminishing returns on the set and slightly reduce the CR.. It should be stat dense for groups of 1-2, but anything after that it should lose it's effectiveness entirely. Reward people for being willing to put themselves at a group size disadvantage.

My proposal; Reduce the impen to 1200. Increase the diminishing returns to -33% per group member. Solo = 1200 CR + 300 WD, duo = 800 CR 200 WD, trio = 400 CR 100WD, 4+ = 0 CR 0 WD

Thecompton73 · January 2023

React wrote: »

What do you mean, at least make it viable in all content? How many sets are there that specifically increase damage to trial/dungeon monsters?

I personally love the concept of rallying cry, but I think they need to drastically increase the diminishing returns on the set and slightly reduce the CR.. It should be stat dense for groups of 1-2, but anything after that it should lose it's effectiveness entirely. Reward people for being willing to put themselves at a group size disadvantage.

My proposal; Reduce the impen to 1200. Increase the diminishing returns to -33% per group member. Solo = 1200 CR + 300 WD, duo = 800 CR 200 WD, trio = 400 CR 100WD, 4+ = 0 CR 0 WD

Agreed, even with the diminishing returns this is still a set that most likely finds its way into ballgroup builds as is. When you've got 24 slots for five piece bonuses that cross buff in a 12 person group a set that gives everyone an unnamed buff of 120 spell damage and 650 crit resist is still very worthwhile to use.