Why/how is RMT surviving in this game?

Silowyi · April 2014

I don't get it. What is is that people are buying that requires them to turn to RMT? I can craft pretty much anything I want, there's no housing, what is it people are so desperate to have that they are sacrificing their real money for?

What am I missing? What's so freaking valuable that people are willing to support this complete nuisance to the game? I realize the game launched a month ago and if you aren't max level in everything by now you must just suck... what am I missing?

Ysne58 · April 2014

That is a good question. How many people are actually purchasing in the "Real Money Trading' model anyway?

jsilva.casteloub17_ESO · April 2014

Then I must suck... because I'm a 49 lol and I'm not a max level in... actually in anything. But I did clean up every area, including all the lorebooks, world bosses, public dungeons, group dungeons, group challenges, every quest, all the achievements... and I just half way into coldharbour - actually less than half way.

Silowyi · April 2014

I have to imagine that if my economics degree was worth getting that supply is meeting demand. Considering the thousands and thousands of accounts they have had to ban and how many more keep appearing, it must be worth the RMT industry's time and effort to persist. If the buyers didn't support it there should be less so it seems like there must be a huge market ... I just don't get what they're buying...

dennissomb16_ESO · April 2014

As usual it is crafting items. Purple and gold crating upgrade mats, provisioning mats that only come from hireling, that sort of thing. There are always that group of people who want the best of everything but are unwilling to play the game to get it. Never understood the mentality myself. Isn't actually playing the game the fun? Then of course there is PvP which is always dictated by having the best gear combined with being highest level

Schmackei · April 2014

The RMTers would not be in the game if no one is purchasing. I hope to see a rapid decrease in them once the subscriptions start.

There are also a small number of things that you can currently spend your gold on in game, some of which will go away after 1.1 is released.

1. Storage
2. Horses
3. Storage
4. Crafting materials (if you are lazy)
5. Motifs
6. Storage
7. Repairs
8. Did I mention Storage?
9. Bites for Vampire or Werewolf (Hope this trend dies soon)

All up though, sitting on anymore than about 20k gold is just saving it for no reasonable reason.

Taid · April 2014

edit: nvm

Silowyi · April 2014

jsilva.casteloub17_ESO wrote: »

Then I must suck... because I'm a 49 lol and I'm not a max level in... actually in anything. But I did clean up every area, including all the lorebooks, world bosses, public dungeons, group dungeons, group challenges, every quest, all the achievements... and I just half way into coldharbour - actually less than half way.

Yup you suck, you didn't max out the game in the first week so you have to learntoplay better.

Obviously I don't think that, I'm just guessing that's the philosophy of people who are buying gold with real money. I've scrounged up a tidy gold pile. It's nothing huge but I have a horse and I make pretty much everything I need so I am just mystified by what could be so rare and valuable that people are willing to

1) support the nuisance
2) waste real money (send it to me if you have too much!)
3) risk having their account banned

Laura · April 2014

Silowyi wrote: »

I don't get it. What is is that people are buying that requires them to turn to RMT? I can craft pretty much anything I want, there's no housing, what is it people are so desperate to have that they are sacrificing their real money for?

What am I missing? What's so freaking valuable that people are willing to support this complete nuisance to the game? I realize the game launched a month ago and if you aren't max level in everything by now you must just suck... what am I missing?

First of all I wanted to agree with you until that last bit. Sorry I have a busy life, i'm not max in everything nor am I quite v10 yet.

Anyway they aren't stupid they are humans. They are sitting on the gold and items for when gold sinks eventually do get added to the game. They exploit ALL this gold and then just let the value raise as people need it.

Eris · April 2014

It seems to me based on the e-mails that I've gotten from them that they are selling item upgrade materials for cash instead of gold. Why someone would want to buy an item upgrade is beyond me, but it seems to be the market they are catering to at the moment.

I'm 33rd and I don't really upgrade anything beyond green. I save all the upgrade materials that I get and I'll probably have enough to upgrade to gold when I get to 50. So I don't see the appeal, but I guess there are people who need to upgrade to gold every other level or something, who knows.

Silowyi · April 2014

Taid wrote: »

edit: nvm

You're "nvm" is noted, thanks for removing that silliness!

Dita · April 2014

Schmackei wrote: »

...There are also a small number of things that you can currently spend your gold on in game, some of which will go away after 1.1 is released...

Kindly, point me to patch notes you a referring too.

Zarec · April 2014

Self entitlement and impatience are the reasons as to why RMT is alive and well. Now if they ever did a study it would be interesting to see what geographic location is more inclined to turn to RMT. I have my suspicions just from reading the forums, but would be an enlightening read.

Would also give game companies a better idea of where to crack down.

Darzil · April 2014

It may be too early to tell. They have to farm gold before selling it, so may not have many buyers yet. If (as in other games) many of the accounts are bought with stolen cards, the account expenses vanish.

I'd have to say, though, that having strongly limited inventory/bank space, a huge number of materials needed for crafting, trophies that take up that space and then offering a solution that isn't level (ie time) gated based on gold encourages it. Having high repair costs (see the decay thread, may be just buggy) encourages it. Having a high priced horse that also isn't level (ie time) gated based on gold encourages it. That's demand side.

Then supply side you have (or had) dungeons with large (gold) benefits from dull repetitive easily scriptable bosses, few checks to spot client side hacks, a skippable first zone (after beta) so you could quickly reach the mainland where your hacks are most successful all encourage it too. You have megaservers so with only two farming operations you can service all customers. That's supply side.

At launch, the game was practically designed for gold farmers rather than players !

Schmackei · April 2014

Dita wrote: »

Schmackei wrote: »

...There are also a small number of things that you can currently spend your gold on in game, some of which will go away after 1.1 is released...

Kindly, point me to patch notes you a referring too.

Here you go

Silowyi · April 2014

Laura wrote: »

Silowyi wrote: »

I don't get it. What is is that people are buying that requires them to turn to RMT? I can craft pretty much anything I want, there's no housing, what is it people are so desperate to have that they are sacrificing their real money for?

What am I missing? What's so freaking valuable that people are willing to support this complete nuisance to the game? I realize the game launched a month ago and if you aren't max level in everything by now you must just suck... what am I missing?

First of all I wanted to agree with you until that last bit. Sorry I have a busy life, i'm not max in everything nor am I quite v10 yet.

Anyway they aren't stupid they are humans. They are sitting on the gold and items for when gold sinks eventually do get added to the game. They exploit ALL this gold and then just let the value raise as people need it.

Having a busy life is a good thing, that last bit about "sucking" if you aren't max level in everything was intended sarcasm. The game is a month old, the number of people max in everything should be pretty small.

KerinKor · April 2014

Silowyi wrote: »

I don't get it. What is is that people are buying that requires them to turn to RMT? I can craft pretty much anything I want, there's no housing, what is it people are so desperate to have that they are sacrificing their real money for?

Horses, bank/inventory slots, rare/legendary items from guilds. Anything desirable that takes more than 5 minutes to get will have some players willing to spend cash to get. Putting a price-tag of 42K gold on a horse usable at level 1 is Christmas Day to RMT especially when it's bound to a single character.

There are many Free-To-Play games entirely funded by people buying things they think are too hard to get by playing: SW:TOR made $139m last year largely off MT though of course it's a hybrid and some do subscribe.

RMT is a massive industry, research the likes of IGE or those plaguing ESO right now, their revenues are hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Schmackei · April 2014

Silowyi wrote: »

... if you aren't max level in everything was intended sarcasm. The game is a month old, the number of people max in everything should be pretty small.

Yeah, I think you are right, there is so much content, if you are V10 already, I would hate to think how much of the content you have missed or rushed past. I know I have spent a couple of days just going back through the low level areas capping out the achievements from them before I make the push tomorrow onto level 50.

I am really looking forward to seeing the V-ranks and getting a look at the zones on the other 2 corners of the map. I have seen a few threads that have people saying that the idea of sending level 50's+ back to the lower content as end game is stupid and not agreed upon. But some would say 'stupid' is spending 13 months in an LFR system with people that 12 months into still don't understand to stay out of red circles causing 25 man wipes for 2 hours on overly nerfed 'raid' bosses. Or spending 6 months killing the same world boss in Queensdale in hope that a precursor drops because you out leveled all the dungeons and already have your little gold star next to your name for map completion.

Silowyi · April 2014

When you get to go to the other areas it isn't low level content. You will be in a phase where the quests and monsters are all VR rank and the only people you will see are still your own faction.

KerinKor · April 2014

Schmackei wrote: »

Silowyi wrote: »

... if you aren't max level in everything was intended sarcasm. The game is a month old, the number of people max in everything should be pretty small.

Yeah, I think you are right, there is so much content, if you are V10 already, I would hate to think how much of the content you have missed or rushed past.

Keep in mind there were several now-closed exploits that allowed ungodly XP-per-hour rates in PVE and PVP which some exploited for all they were worth and ZOS took no action over.

Some like the PVP 'daily' that was wrongly flagged simply repeatable may arguably not have been an obvious exploit, some in the PVE world were patently not WAI!

Ker.Rakb16_ESO · April 2014

They're buying vampire bites and motif books.

Jeremy · April 2014

Considering the high prices most things of worth have in these Guild Stores I can easily see what people are spending gold on. So I don't get what has the OP confused.

To be honest with you, this game's economy is a breeding ground for desperation and encourages gold-buying.

cjmarsh725b14_ESO · April 2014

Apparently you have a lot of gold and you have leveled quickly. Congratulations, that makes you a minority in the game. Many people don't play long hours and haven't leveled enough to reach veteran ranks, or to obtain the kind of income that makes gold seem useless to end-game players like you. This creates a pool of players among whom are inevitably those who will break the rules for their own convenience. Thus, the demand for RMT and the existence of gold sellers in virtually every successful mmo ever made.

Ker.Rakb16_ESO · April 2014

To be fair, the average thrifty player becomes filthy rich around level 35 or so. If you keep an eye on repair costs, you can buy pretty much everything you could possibly want by VR 2-3.

KerinKor · April 2014

Jeremy wrote: »

Considering the high prices most things of worth have in these Guild Stores I can easily see what people are spending gold on. So I don't get what has the OP confused.

To be honest with you, this game's economy is a breeding ground for desperation and does not nothing but encourage gold-buying.

That applies to most games.

Face it, it's the inevitable result of one of the core principles MMO designers use: make something desirable take a long time to get so people pay more subs to get it. As an aside is also panders to the 'achievers' who demand everything take an age to 'earn' in a game!

For a new player, finding 42k gold for a horse is laughably so way off it's not worth considering. In WOW originally mounts were expensive at level 1 but since you couldn't use them till level 40, what most people found was when they finally hit to 40 they actually had enough, or near enough gold to afford one.

In this game you can use at level 1 something it'll take what seems like forever to get, hours and days of tedious farming (fighting bots for nodes,etc.) whereas RMT are offering a way to get it easily.

Of course it's not 'right' but it IS human nature for many and the developers continue to ignore human nature in pursuit of their time-sinks .. and drive custom directly to RMT's doors.

Developers need to find other ways of implementing time-sinks that are susceptible to being avoided by paying cash.

FFXI and FFXIV for example don't charge a single gil (in-game currency) for mounts, you have to complete quests and reach a certain level to get them, there's no opening for RMT to step in to help. Yes, both have an RMT infestation but in part that's driven by player greed not crass game design, though some things like FFXI truly horrible Relic grind is a gift to RMT even now.

Darzil · April 2014

Ker.Rakb16_ESO wrote: »

To be fair, the average thrifty player becomes filthy rich around level 35 or so. If you keep an eye on repair costs, you can buy pretty much everything you could possibly want by VR 2-3.

I'm sure I could do this too. I'd pick a spec that doesn't rely on armour bonuses (as the armour would usually be broken) make sure I have a good weapon every 2 levels, and wear drops, never repairing. I'd avoid Dolmens, avoid Crafting etc.

Or I could have fun and not afford anything.

I hope the game gets it's economy when levelling fixed so that people can afford the fun gold sinks (horse/bank etc) rather than all going on the unfun one (repairs), whilst also being fun to play !

steveb16_ESO46 · April 2014

Silowyi wrote: »

I don't get it. What is is that people are buying that requires them to turn to RMT? I can craft pretty much anything I want, there's no housing, what is it people are so desperate to have that they are sacrificing their real money for?

What am I missing? What's so freaking valuable that people are willing to support this complete nuisance to the game? I realize the game launched a month ago and if you aren't max level in everything by now you must just suck... what am I missing?

42k gp for a horse. Hundreds of gp for weapons and armour every couple of levels. It all adds up. Some people are time poor and happy to trade cash for time.

I hope they are going to crack down on gold buyers as well as sellers.

Jeremy · April 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Considering the high prices most things of worth have in these Guild Stores I can easily see what people are spending gold on. So I don't get what has the OP confused.

To be honest with you, this game's economy is a breeding ground for desperation and does not nothing but encourage gold-buying.

That applies to most games.

To an extent I agree.

But I find the problem exemplified on this game because it lacks a competitive economy. As a result, it has a higher amount of over-priced items than usual.

Silowyi · April 2014

cjmarsh725b14_ESO wrote: »

Apparently you have a lot of gold and you have leveled quickly. Congratulations, that makes you a minority in the game. Many people don't play long hours and haven't leveled enough to reach veteran ranks, or to obtain the kind of income that makes gold seem useless to end-game players like you. This creates a pool of players among whom are inevitably those who will break the rules for their own convenience. Thus, the demand for RMT and the existence of gold sellers in virtually every successful mmo ever made.

I have gold ( a lot? I have no way to measure if it's a lot... 60k maybe) because I craft everything I need and save my coin. I don't understand the argument about not having a lot of time to play. If you don't have time to play you can't be very high level and therefore don't need a lot of money. I'm not saying that as an insult, I don't judge people by their level, the key is if you're having fun.

Even if I were level 20, which I was at one point, I still don't see what there is to buy that would justify using RMT. Yes, a horse is expensive, I had one day 1 from the Imperial pack and honestly, I seldom use it. I'm not in a hurry and by travelling mostly by foot I don't miss a lot of the resources you might miss going at a faster speed.

I'm almost always on foot... what's the hurry? And maybe that has helped me save more coin.

Silowyi · April 2014

Darzil wrote: »

Ker.Rakb16_ESO wrote: »

To be fair, the average thrifty player becomes filthy rich around level 35 or so. If you keep an eye on repair costs, you can buy pretty much everything you could possibly want by VR 2-3.

I'm sure I could do this too. I'd pick a spec that doesn't rely on armour bonuses (as the armour would usually be broken) make sure I have a good weapon every 2 levels, and wear drops, never repairing. I'd avoid Dolmens, avoid Crafting etc.

Or I could have fun and not afford anything.

I hope the game gets it's economy when levelling fixed so that people can afford the fun gold sinks (horse/bank etc) rather than all going on the unfun one (repairs), whilst also being fun to play !

You actually couldn't do this. I fight mostly at range, don't get hit very much and still armor gets beaten down pretty hard. I'm not sure what algorithm they use but it seems that just being in combat damages your equipment. I'm basically a haler and after a dungeon run where I almost never got hit my armor is still beat to death.

Still I get more in cash and drops then my repairs but it may not be the same for everyone.

Shillen · April 2014

Ker.Rakb16_ESO wrote: »

To be fair, the average thrifty player becomes filthy rich around level 35 or so. If you keep an eye on repair costs, you can buy pretty much everything you could possibly want by VR 2-3.

Yeah, no. Haven't bought a single thing other than inventory space, horses and 1 respec and I'm certainly not rolling in money. I very rarely die too and I never ever pay to teleport anywhere. I'm guessing you're riding around on your crappy white horse or something. I didn't get imp edition so I bought the 43k horse for 3 different characters now.