Sub.assault hits twice, it's better in both PvE and PvP.

I'm more worried about stam having access to premium magicka heals, while also having better numbers on them.

@katorga but it's not true. Weapon skills doesn't share the scaling, and it's not "just go any pool and you are grand". I can't split pools 50/50 and be effective. I can't go mag pool + weapon damage boosts.

divnyi wrote: »

@katorga but it's not true. Weapon skills doesn't share the scaling, and it's not "just go any pool and you are grand". I can't split pools 50/50 and be effective. I can't go mag pool + weapon damage boosts.

@katorga All skills get hybrid scaling. Not just class skills. And as far as I can tell, they will scale off of your max wep/spell damage and max resource separately. So you can have high max stam + spell damage and the skills will scale off of that. My stamplar's jabs tooltip goes up by about 2k when I switch my jewelry glyphs to spell damage instead of weapon damage (thanks to minor sorcery).. keeping all points in stam.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

So you can have high max stam + spell damage and the skills will scale off of that. My stamplar's jabs tooltip goes up by about 2k when I switch my jewelry glyphs to spell damage instead of weapon damage (thanks to minor sorcery).. keeping all points in stam.

Lol jeez I guess we'll see some insurgence of max.magica stamsorcs after the patch. Magica ez converts to stam and streaks.

etchedpixels wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

This is very good information. I'm glad that, for once, a Stamplar will have access to all of its abilities and healing. Always sucked losing most of your skills simply because you wanted to run a weapon instead of a staff. Sure we cannot cast magicka abilities as frequently as a fully spec'd magicka player, but we CAN use them on a limited basis but with full strength.

The effectiveness is dependent on your highest stat (which is broken in itself and means you can only put 64 in stam or 64 in mag).

However for casting abilities the pool size is irrelevant except for bursty short things like PvP. Only your resource regeneration rate determines sustain. Today that's mostly obvious on tanks with the ice staff/sword & board setup but it's becoming the case for everything. Thus if you have 64 stamina for blocking and a high magicka regen you can sustain the use of a lot of magicka skills.

That makes lots of peculiar options open up - such as magsorc dual wield with 64 stam (for blocking) and massive stacked magicka regen or Breton StamDKs that can pretty much spam magicka skills.

Basically. However, as you said in pvp, a stam sorc or any stam build for that matter with 64 mag is highly unlikely because you're placing yourself at around 14-20k stamina depending on if you're a hybrid resource race and/or using Sugar Skulls, etc.

All it takes is 1 DK to Talons + Fossilize you and you've just lost a minimum of 10k stamina (2 dodges + CC break). No matter how good your stamina sustain is, it's going to take time to get that pool back which you can't afford to wait for when your main pool is your damage pool. It's simply not worth it.

Maybe if the stam sorc was using a mag spammable it would be fine but options are limited for a melee playstyle, they're most likely still going to use Executioner or Whirling Blades as execute spammables.

The more you lean into using everything as mag, you're simply just a mag sorc at that point. If we're drawing the line in the sand that you use stamina based spammables, with a stamina weapon, but you have 64 mag.. it just sounds like a bad build to me.

As a stam sorc, I can afford to use Haunting Curse, Crit Surge, Dark Deal, and Streak with Khajiit, Magma 1 pc and Jewels of Misrule. I don't see any reason why I'd sacrifice a larger stamina pool when it's already possible to cast what I need? Maybe if you happen to use Flappy Bird for a burst heal or Regen? Again, I think you're getting into the territory of well.. maybe you should just be a mag sorc lol.

Totally confused...do weapon skills scale off highest stat or not?

I'm not certain it matters. Say 2H skills only scale off weapon damage and stamina, but you class skill scale off highest stat pool: if I decide to use 2H, I stack weapon damage and stam, and all my class skills are good to go, provided I can sustain my secondary resource pool for the rate that I cast mag skills.

If everything scales off highest stat pool. Essentially the same thing. I pick the stat that I can pump the highest. For a templar that might be max spell damage / mag because I have minor sorcery. For DK it might be max weapon damage and stam, because DK has access to minor brutality.

The challenge is getting sustains right, because you will have to worry how do I sustain higher consumption of my second stat as part of my skill rotation. Stam sorcs and Stamblades will have a lot of experience with this because they have always been heavy users of secondary stat skills (streak, cloak).

divnyi wrote: »

@MashmalloMan you can convert mag to stam and have a net gain on that. Max magica also gives access to shields. Roll tristat food, 20k isn't that easy to remove. Talons into fossilize doesn't require 2 rolls, unless he waited 4s between. And if you let DK wait 4s in a melee range, you are playing stamsorc wrong anyway.

Magica scales better. WD scales better. Combination of both might get us interesting results, both in PvE and PvP.

I don't consider having a lower stamina pool that I constantly need to refil using Dark Deal while also having less room for error as that is the pool I use for the important combat abilities to secure kills as a net gain. I think it's more complicated then you let on. Especially since an over reliance on Dark Deal while possible, creates a playstyle in which you're constantly doing it instead of fighting which is easily punishable as it's a cast time skill. You want to use it while you LOS or after you break free.

Yeah, Stam Sorcs work well doing that playstyle because they typically deplete their resource, bail, refresh, then enter the fight again, but not being able to cast more than 5 stamina skills before being forced on the retreat is just too much imo. The stamina skills are what will secure kills. If you're using a magicka spammable, execute and Curse/Frags, then you're just a mag sorc with Hurricane and Dark Deal. Or maybe a hybrid.. idk.

I'm sure it could work, I'm just saying it's not ideal for my playstyle and I think it's unnecessary to do as we can already cast the major magicka skills we need with 15k mag, having a higher pool of mag vs stam serves no benefit as you can't stack it any higher, the only skills that stack Mag higher than stam are Bound Armor which is primarly a tank skill and would replace Bound Armaments which buffs Stamina instead OR Inner Light which is redundant because Camo Hunter is objectively better for a Stam Sorc.

But hey, it's subjective, if you think thats a fun playstyle then go for it. If I want to play Stam Sorc, I need 25k minimum to cast the 4-5 stamina skills I use and be offensive, I prefer foods that also provide sustain like Jewels, Haunch, Saltrice or Dubious. Sugar Skulls is a great food, but by depleting my regen away from the food, I'm going to make up for it somewhere else which will end up lowering my damage or utility.

Now.. all that above is in regards to PVP. For PVE, yeah maybe Max Mag would be better because you can do something like Max Mag + Stam Regen food and get by pretty easily, but you would still be missing out on Bound Armaments 8% Stam that I don't feel could be made up for using Bound Armor or Inner Light. Slotting Meteor is also worse than slotting Dawnbreaker so thats mute. So since you can reasonably stack it higher, than for PVE purposes, the only reason to use Max Mag as a stam sorc is for using shields.

divnyi wrote: »

Talons into fossilize doesn't require 2 rolls, unless he waited 4s between. And if you let DK wait 4s in a melee range, you are playing stamsorc wrong anyway.

You don't need to wait 4s..When you roll dodge out of Talon, they can then Fossilize instantly since it can't be dodged. Once you break free from the stun of Fossilize (or Shattering Rocks, w.e), you then need to dodge roll again to avoid being whipped to death. Not roll dodging a whip is usually a death sentence for a Stam Sorc.

With my build. 6 Med, 1 Heavy, 7 Well Fitted.
Roll (1737) - Break Free (5400) - Roll (2606) = 9743 Stamina.

This is one of the best case scenario's though as I'm stacked with Med and Well Fitted, not every build is like this.

For someone in 5/1/1, 5 Impen and 2 Well Fitted it's a lot more costly.
Roll (3878) - Break Free (5130) - Roll (5,817) = 14,825 Stamina.

Thats my point, it's just very risky to have your main resource pool for stamina to be at 25k or below on any Stam Class.. Dark Deal will not fix the amount of stamina you will burst through in moments of pressure, but Stam Sorc is the closest to making this work so I'd be curious to see a build do it. Just don't think it's for me, nor do I think it's cut and dry that you should just go for Mag in every scenario.