Two changes to Sated fury morph and one change to Simmering fury morph?
xdross
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After some tests, sated fury seems much better for pvp players. My only problem is that it got TWO buffs as a morph compared to simmering. In fact, the two changes are so strong that it might be meta play, I know I'll defiantly be using it. Sated is easily countered by vigour due to the reduced cost and provides a HUGE heal when turned off after a while. Simmering was lacklustre in comparison, 600 more cost for 100 wd/sd? Doesn't seem right to me, no one will use it over sated, especially when you can't receive other player heals. To make simmering more attractive, I'd suggest buffing the wd/sd given so that it is more risk/reward for those who want it, or maybe make that stacks come quicker at a higher cost. I wonder what other player tests have brought to light, say your opinion below!
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xdross✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
Have you tested it? WD/SD may be low, but after being up for a while, say 2 mins, it will heal you to full hp when low. It gets reduced cost and a heal when toggled off, whereas simmering only gets 10 extra wd/sd per stack.2 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
Have you tested it? WD/SD may be low, but after being up for a while, say 2 mins, it will heal you to full hp when low. .
Or I could just have 5 stacks of Grim Focus which grant just as much attack power and does not drain my health.
Your also forgetting Simmering Frenzy still has no limit, why would I ever use Sated Fury over it?
Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on February 14, 2022 9:10PM1 -
xdross✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »
Have you tested it? WD/SD may be low, but after being up for a while, say 2 mins, it will heal you to full hp when low. .
Or I could just have 5 stacks of Grim Focus which grant just as much attack power and does not drain my health.
Why not both? Non-nb classes don't have access to grim anyway, so this is a good alternative. The mega heal from sated is enough for solo players, straight back to full hp when low at a low cost of 900-1.1k hp/s.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Your also forgetting Simmering Frenzy still has no limit, why would I ever use Sated Fury over it?
Incorrect, they stopped that.
Simmering Frenzy (morph): This morph now increases the Weapon and Spell Damage granted to a maximum of 40 per stack, rather than adding 66 Weapon and Spell Damage each second the ability is toggled on with no cap.
So Simmering Frenzy caps off at 400 spell and weapon damage with Sated Fury capping off at 300 spell and weapon damage, costing less over time, and healing when turned off.
Honestly, this whole change nerfs my PvE build, but I honestly do understand it. That message in the developer notes talking about the highly skilled players able to make a Blood Frenzy build work were you and me. They nerfed the ability in our hands, made it more accessible, and made the visceral feel of tearing people apart with highly super charged attacks a thing of the past. Was fun while it lasted though!Edited by Vevvev on February 14, 2022 9:23PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
xdross✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Your also forgetting Simmering Frenzy still has no limit, why would I ever use Sated Fury over it?
Incorrect, they stopped that.
Simmering Frenzy (morph): This morph now increases the Weapon and Spell Damage granted to a maximum of 40 per stack, rather than adding 66 Weapon and Spell Damage each second the ability is toggled on with no cap.
Yes, another buff could be removing the cap from simmering, it's the main limiter at the moment. I've used simmering a lot and it feels like an ability that isn't supposed to be sustainable over time. I guess it's just being PvEised, but I doubt anyone in high tier PvE will use it.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's interesting actually. Not sure if one burst healing to full is worth of running huge dot over yourself (thats like 2-3k DPS dot if you think about how it bypasses battle spirit and mitigations), but maybe someone would be able to abuse it.0 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Your also forgetting Simmering Frenzy still has no limit, why would I ever use Sated Fury over it?
Incorrect, they stopped that.
Simmering Frenzy (morph): This morph now increases the Weapon and Spell Damage granted to a maximum of 40 per stack, rather than adding 66 Weapon and Spell Damage each second the ability is toggled on with no cap.
Yes, another buff could be removing the cap from simmering, it's the main limiter at the moment. I've used simmering a lot and it feels like an ability that isn't supposed to be sustainable over time. I guess it's just being PvEised, but I doubt anyone in high tier PvE will use it.
Well no one is gonna use it now.0 -
xdross✭✭That's interesting actually. Not sure if one burst healing to full is worth of running huge dot over yourself (thats like 2-3k DPS dot if you think about how it bypasses battle spirit and mitigations), but maybe someone would be able to abuse it.
On PTS, I've managed to reduce the cost to 1.6k hp/2 seconds and still maintain 5k wd. This way you can keep it back barred, out heal it and use it when you need it. It is counted by hp rec too. With a 5 minute uptime it will heal for a huge amount. I kept it up for 2 mins and it healed more than my max hp. Max hp was 21k to test how it would fare on a low hp player and it took 30 seconds to completely remove my hp (all done inside cyro).2 -
Kaelthorn_Nightbloom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Neither 300 nor 400 damage is worth the bar slot, health cost, and no incoming heals.
They should re-evaluate the amount of damage granted by both Sated and Simmering.
516 capped for Sated (129 x4)
774 capped for Simmering (129 x6)
Simmering needs at least 129 x2 more damage than Sated to be worth it.PC NA3 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Neither 300 nor 400 damage is worth the bar slot, health cost, and no incoming heals.
They should re-evaluate the amount of damage granted by both Sated and Simmering.
516 capped for Sated (129 x4)
774 capped for Simmering (129 x6)
Simmering needs at least 129 x2 more damage than Sated to be worth it.
Even without the penalties I would still say it is not worth it,
On a Nightblade you have Grim Focus which after 5 stacks gives you 300 Attack Power and in it's own right is a powerful single target attack, there are no downsides to it, even if Frenzy had no weaknesses it would still not be worth using over it as it lacks an attack.
At this point they should just scrap Blood Frenzy and replace it with a Gap Closer or something, change the passives around to make more sense, get rid of Strike from Shadows as it is impossible to proc for some builds, make unnatural movement the stage 2 passive and add a flat-out 300 boost to attack power as the stage 4 passive.
Make the first two passives where your supposed to be your weakest as stealth based and the stage 3 and 4 passives should be about combat when your supposed to be at your strongest, call the passive "Supernatural Strength"Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on February 14, 2022 9:52PM3 -
Kaelthorn_Nightbloom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Imagine having to wait 20 seconds for only 300 spell damage. I wouldn't call this a frenzy.
Edited by Kaelthorn_Nightbloom on February 14, 2022 10:28PMPC NA6 -
xdross✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Imagine having to wait 20 seconds for only 300 or 400 spell damage. I wouldn't call this a frenzy.
Yes it does suck, I think it should be a maximum of 10 seconds, or have the damage increased. Sated is more of a heal now than a damage buff imo.1 -
xdross✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Neither 300 nor 400 damage is worth the bar slot, health cost, and no incoming heals.
They should re-evaluate the amount of damage granted by both Sated and Simmering.
516 capped for Sated (129 x4)
774 capped for Simmering (129 x6)
Simmering needs at least 129 x2 more damage than Sated to be worth it.
Even without the penalties I would still say it is not worth it,
On a Nightblade you have Grim Focus which after 5 stacks gives you 300 Attack Power and in it's own right is a powerful single target attack, there are no downsides to it, even if Frenzy had no weaknesses it would still not be worth using over it as it lacks an attack.
At this point they should just scrap Blood Frenzy and replace it with a Gap Closer or something, change the passives around to make more sense, get rid of Strike from Shadows as it is impossible to proc for some builds, make unnatural movement the stage 2 passive and add a flat-out 300 boost to attack power as the stage 4 passive.
Make the first two passives where your supposed to be your weakest as stealth based and the stage 3 and 4 passives should be about combat when your supposed to be at your strongest, call the passive "Supernatural Strength"
I agree with your ideas on passive changes, last passive makes no sense at all. I'd still prefer fury to be there as a tool for solo players. The downside to focus in pvp is that the stacks eliminate when combat ends, whereas fury can be precast. Sure you get them during combat, but fury will allow full damage right away. If these changes stick then I'll run both abilities anyway.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »
Kinda like how it was on the Greymoor PTS before the introduction of the cost increase over time. Might see a flip here with Sated Fury becoming the go-to again over Simmering Frenzy.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Imagine having to wait 20 seconds for only 300 spell damage. I wouldn't call this a frenzy.
Totally agree!
Like most nerfs they have killed the skills to a point where they are not worth using it, might as well just switch it off like Mist Form at this point.PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
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merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »SkaraMinoc wrote: »Neither 300 nor 400 damage is worth the bar slot, health cost, and no incoming heals.
They should re-evaluate the amount of damage granted by both Sated and Simmering.
516 capped for Sated (129 x4)
774 capped for Simmering (129 x6)
Simmering needs at least 129 x2 more damage than Sated to be worth it.
Even without the penalties I would still say it is not worth it,
On a Nightblade you have Grim Focus which after 5 stacks gives you 300 Attack Power and in it's own right is a powerful single target attack, there are no downsides to it, even if Frenzy had no weaknesses it would still not be worth using over it as it lacks an attack.
At this point they should just scrap Blood Frenzy and replace it with a Gap Closer or something, change the passives around to make more sense, get rid of Strike from Shadows as it is impossible to proc for some builds, make unnatural movement the stage 2 passive and add a flat-out 300 boost to attack power as the stage 4 passive.
Make the first two passives where your supposed to be your weakest as stealth based and the stage 3 and 4 passives should be about combat when your supposed to be at your strongest, call the passive "Supernatural Strength"
Blood Frenzy pre this change was too difficult to have up, except in ganking builds and in hyper-optimized group activities where people chunk bosses in vet dungeons and trials from 100% to death in 20 seconds. Outside those two instances, it wasn't worth using at all due to the health cost and slot prereq. Now it can be used in... i dunno, there's not many classes that benefit from this now. So I agree, as it sits now but also as it sits after the change, it really has no builds it would be particularly good for.
They could make it a passive slot skill with a use function like Expert Hunter/Magelight. Make it give a passive bonus of damage while slotted (300 and 400 could work in this instance), reducing your max HP by an amount that is reduced based on your vampire stage, then add a new use ability. The two guild skills reveal invisible enemies, but that'd be kinda boring on this skill (and not thematic). Maybe it reduces your max HP by 5% while slotted and grants a passive 300 damage, with the max hp decreasing by 1% and the damage increasing by 33 per vampire level after 1. It costs % hp to use (maybe 25% of max hp), but makes it so your attacks have a change to cause the hemorrhaging status effect for 10-15 seconds, even if they don't deal bleed damage. Then one morph could be for tanks and one for dps, maybe a damage increase for one up to 400 with the increase from vamp stage being boosted to 66, and a taunt for the other.
Otherwise, as you said, the skill just doesn't hold well on its own and could use a rework entirely.Edited by merpins on February 15, 2022 12:04AM0 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭Or they could just reduce healing effectiveness per stack, up to 50-60%, and remove the "you can't be healed while using this skill" effect. Kind of like old Thrassian Stranglers.Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Further thinking on this change the only good thing that comes to my mind is it'll be as easy to sustain as Blood Frenzy was during Weeks 1-2 on the Greymoor PTS. In essence, forever. The health cost increase has a cap again meaning you just kinda toggle it on and forget about it. Sated Fury will once again herald in the 1 million point heal that it was known for on the Greymoor PTS before week 3 of that PTS cycle when they changed it up to stop people from going all in on the "fire and forget" that the ability became known for.
Funny how things have gone full circle once again.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Further thinking on this change the only good thing that comes to my mind is it'll be as easy to sustain as Blood Frenzy
There will be no reason to sustain it though, micro-managing recourses for a barley noticeable 300 increase? simply slotting another ability would be the more optimal choice.Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on February 15, 2022 1:06AM5 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Further thinking on this change the only good thing that comes to my mind is it'll be as easy to sustain as Blood Frenzy
There will be no reason to sustain it though, micro-managing recourses for a barley noticeable 300 increase? simply slotting another ability would be the more optimal choice.
Maybe, but I'm thinking of the other implications. My build has no need for a stun in PvE so I have always changed it out for Blood Frenzy and sustained Blood Frenzy with the Pale Order Ring. I loved Sated fury for the sole reason of storing up that massive heal and using it when needed. Now I don't even really need the Pale Order Ring to do that and can get away with it in far more content than I otherwise could have.
Edit: And we're also looking at this skill's cost in a vacuum as it's not taking into account the vampire cost decrease buff. Simmering Frenzy will cap at 3,200 health every 2 seconds, and Sated Fury is capped at 2,700 health every 2 seconds.
Sated Fury will scale something like this with the initial cost and it's max cost.- Stage 1: 658 / 2,538
- Stage 2: 630 / 2,430
- Stage 3: 588 / 2,268
- Stage 4: 532 / 2,052
Simmering Frenzy will scale something like this with the initial cost and it's max cost.- Stage 1: 658 / 3,008
- Stage 2: 630 / 2,880
- Stage 3: 588 / 2,688
- Stage 4: 532 / 2,432
Edited by Vevvev on February 15, 2022 2:49AMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
DeathStalker✭✭✭✭✭With these changes then what classes are even worth it to run vampire at all? No mist and now no fury, then what vampire skills to even bother with?Edited by DeathStalker on February 15, 2022 3:35AM0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »Further thinking on this change the only good thing that comes to my mind is it'll be as easy to sustain as Blood Frenzy
There will be no reason to sustain it though, micro-managing recourses for a barley noticeable 300 increase? simply slotting another ability would be the more optimal choice.
Respectfully disagree. Attrition based magblade builds and magblade healers who want to bring lethal in their build in small scale will make great use of sated.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Imagine having to wait 20 seconds for only 300 or 400 spell damage. I wouldn't call this a frenzy.
Yes it does suck, I think it should be a maximum of 10 seconds, or have the damage increased. Sated is more of a heal now than a damage buff imo.
The one application I can think of is on a Warden, which doesn't have a good burst heal right now.
Together with the bonus to Magic damage, Blood4Blood might be a good option for Wardens as well.
I'll certainly try to roll a Volkihar frost vampire next patch, could be interesting.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SkaraMinoc wrote: »Imagine having to wait 20 seconds for only 300 spell damage. I wouldn't call this a frenzy.
Rofl, so true.
Hate the change.Edited by gariondavey on February 15, 2022 3:20PMPC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0