Destro staff in U33: last wish of the suffering mage

lQrukl · February 2022

Thoughts about how simple but effective and fair changes to staves could be to keep them useful and versatile in the era of hybridization.

=== PASSIVES ===

1) Tri Focus:

Fully-charged Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done.
Fully-charged Inferno Staff Heavy Attacks deal 12% additional damage. Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks damage nearby enemies for 100% of the damage done. Fully-charged Ice Staff Heavy Attacks grants you a damage shield that absorbs 4000 damage. While an Ice Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina.

Kaboom!

2)Protection Expert:

While an Ice Staff is equipped, blocking costs Magicka instead of Stamina. Equipping an Ice Staff reduces the cost of blocking by 36% and increases the amount of damage you block by 20%. Fully-charged Ice Staff Heavy Attacks grants you a damage shield that absorbs 4000 damage.
Penetrating Magic:
Your Destruction Staff abilities ignore 10% of the enemy's Spell Resistance.

Now you can decide what you have in your hands - a weapon of destruction magic or a mighty frost shield for allies that drains your magica as well. Just take this passive or not.

3) Destruction Expert:

Increases your chance to apply status effects by 110%. Your Destruction Staff abilities ignore 10% of the enemy's Spell Resistance.
Elemental Force:
Increases your chance to apply status effects by 100%.

Just a bit standardization according to Charged dagger trait effect.

4) Ancient Knowledge:

Equipping an Destruction Staff increases your damage done by 10%.
Equipping an Inferno Staff increases your damage done with single target abilities by 10%. Equipping a Lightning Staff increases your damage done with area of effect abilities by 10%. Equipping an Ice Staff reduces the cost of blocking by 36% and increases the amount of damage you block by 20%.

It's weapon for destruction after all.

5) Elemental Force:

Destruction Expert:
When you kill an enemy with a Destruction Staff ability, you restore 3600 Magicka. When you absorb damage using a Destruction Staff Damage Shield, you restore 1800 Magicka. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

=== SKILLS ===

1) Wall of Elements:

Slam your staff down to create an elemental barrier in front of you, dealing X Magic Damage to enemies in the target area every 1 second. Wall of Fire deals additional damage to Burning enemies. Wall of Frost costs more, but grants damage shields and immobilizes Chilled enemies. Wall of Storms sets Concussed enemies Off Balance.

1.1) Elemental Blockade:

Increases the size and duration of the wall. Wall of Fire fears Burning enemies. Wall of Frost deals less damage, but grants damage shields and immobilizes Chilled enemies. Wall of Storms sets Concussed enemies Off Balance.

Funny tank-oriented morph.

1.2) Unstable Wall of Elements:

Wall of Fire deals additional damage to Burning enemies. Wall of Storms deals additional damage to Concussed enemies. Wall of Frost deals additional damage to Chilled enemies. The wall explodes when it expires, dealing additional damage.

MORE. EQUALITY. IN. DESTRUCTION.

2) Impulse:

Release a surge of elemental energy, dealing X Magic Damage to nearby enemies. Fire Impulse hits Burning enemies with Impulse Afterburn, which deals more damage based on their missing Health. Frost Impulse also provides Minor Protection afflicts non-boss enemies with Minor Mangle, reducing their Maximum Health by 10% for 5 seconds. Shock Impulse's damage increases based on the number of enemies hit.

2.1) Pulsar:

Applies Minor Mangle to non-boss enemies, reducing their Max Health. Triples the innate chance to apply the respective status effect.

2.2) Elemental Ring:

Deals damage at a target location instead of around you.

=== STATUS EFFECTS ===

1) Burning

When you apply burning status effect on an enemy, they take X fire damage over time for 4 seconds. If you also have an fire staff equipped, burning deals 25% more damage.

2) Chilled:

When you apply chilled status effect on an enemy, they take X frost damage over time for 4 seconds. If you also have an ice staff equipped, this will apply Minor Brittle.
Chilled enemy suffers from Minor Maim debuff for 4 seconds, reducing their damage by 5%. If you also have an ice staff equipped, this will apply Minor Brittle.

3) Concussed:

When you apply concussed status effect on an enemy, they take X shock damage over time for 4 seconds. If you also have an storm staff equipped, this will apply Major Magickasteal.
Concussed enemy suffers from Minor Vulnerability debuff for 4 seconds, increasing their damage taken by 5%.

Kept burning advantage, but not with huge gap as before: on live burning can deal 8k+ damage at magdk parse 0_o. Also usefull and unic debuff for concussion status effect.

===DREAMS===

Encratis and Engulfing are deleted from the game.

Thanks for reading! ^^
I hope zos pay attention to this post, I worked on it for more than 4 hours >.<

WrathOfInnos · February 2022

These changes seem to make all the staff types very similar. Lightning Staff is already the worst weapon, no reason to give its heavy attacks to both Inferno and Frost Staves and take away its unique boost to area damage.

The idea about Wall of Storms dealing more damage to concussed enemies and Wall of Frost to chilled enemies is a good one, but don't limit this effect to one morph. Blockade should remain the long duration, large area option and Unstable the high maintenance, high single target damage option.

I think the intent is to make all 3 staves equally strong, but as you point out, Encratis and Engulfing would still mean Fire is best. This can really only be solved by adding skills or sets that make enemies vulnerable to other elements. There are also some balance concerns if you make Frost equal to Inferno for offense, while also having extra defensive bonuses.

Instead off all 3 becoming the same, I'd prefer them all becoming viable or even meta for different scenarios. Stamina gets 3 different offensive skill lines, magicka at least needs their 3 reskinned versions of abilities to feel different. The framework is already in place, Fire for single target bosses, Lightning for trash or adds, Frost for debuff/support DPS. Then it can be taken a step further with class synergy, so Sorcs can use Lightning even for single target, DK's can use Inferno for AoE builds, and Wardens can compete in both AoE and ST damage with Frost Staves. It would just take a few tweaks of passives to make this happen, and we'd stop seeing every class using inferno staves for every encounter.

lQrukl · February 2022

These changes seem to make all the staff types very similar.

That was a main idea, to minimize overall difference to achieve more flexibility for every type of staff, but keep individuality in status effects ( also it keeps cools enchant visuals on the appropriate staff type :^) ).

The idea about Wall of Storms dealing more damage to concussed enemies and Wall of Frost to chilled enemies is a good one, but don't limit this effect to one morph. Blockade should remain the long duration, large area option and Unstable the high maintenance, high single target damage option.

Why not? 0.o
If you need damage - take damage morph. It is great as AoE spamable as well, you do not need blockade for area if you have unstable.

I think the intent is to make all 3 staves equally strong, but as you point out, Encratis and Engulfing would still mean Fire is best. This can really only be solved by adding skills or sets that make enemies vulnerable to other elements.

I have suggested that few month ago. But looking for ZoS, hard trying to make any content in difficult times of remote work, I came up with a simpler solution. They seem to have a hard time creating new types of buffs/maybe it affects the calculations somehow, which is why they haven't been able to introduce this in all these years. I'm just trying to help 0w0
Also, E&E (Encratis and Engulfing) problem could be solved with sets like Frostbite, so I'm not so much pessimistic about that.

There are also some balance concerns if you make Frost equal to Inferno for offense, while also having extra defensive bonuses.

I foresaw it. All defence bonuses of frost staff could be moved to a separate passive skill and united with passive that spends your magica while blocking. It's very annoying for DD, but cool for tank. It's also one of the reason why stamina uses food with regen even in real content, not dummy. So sustain should be a big stop factor for dd who wants to sit on both chairs.

The framework is already in place, Fire for single target bosses, Lightning for trash or adds, Frost for debuff/support DPS.

Noooo pls. Let me just play my sorc anywhere with storm staff. Skills features are enough, keep passives out of that.
It's destruction staff, not support's staff, not tank's staff, not aoe-only staff. Every staff uses an one of the most destructive element In Tamriel, not only fire should be bis for single-target. Separation only makes it harder, almost impossible to balance.

Why does noone care about making restro staff viable for dds? Or making 2-handed viable to healer?

Why exactly the destro staff should please every role, being the only magic weapon? T.T

CP5 · February 2022

Honestly, making all the staves more the same would just invalidate all of them. Fire having 10% more single target damage does this handily, but even removing that bonus the unique fire bonuses are enough as well. And adding gear and skills that amplify frost or shock damage won't work because itemizing for a raid is about having as many of your bonuses applicable to as many people as possible, so no one will dual spec their raid to support both shock and fire when they could just support fire all the way.

While I agree things like 10% bonus aoe or single target damage should be toned down or removed, the staves should be able to shine on their own for different purposes rather than just being slight variants. Things like fire staves having a mini-relequin stacking burn dot to encourage them to be used for single target, or shock staves getting a chain lightning treatment to encourage use in aoe situations, those would make the staves more interesting of a choice. I just remember back when ESO launched, and I was leveling my sorc, swapping between the different staves interested in how they would work differently, only to find they were so similar. Making them more the same would just make it feel like there is even less of a choice.

lQrukl · February 2022

Making them more the same would just make it feel like there is even less of a choice.

But today we dont even have a choice :,c
ZoS maded a big problem, trying to create "variants". They will not be able to come up with an elegant solution in the next one-two years i think. They cannot create new class/skill line since Elsweyer, 3 years in a raw. I do not belive that thay have resourses for rework old skill line as you dream.

I just suggest a viable & fast solution, that keeps everything alsmost the same, but allows you use any staff you want, without pinning you down to a certain type.

And adding gear and skills that amplify frost or shock damage won't work because itemizing for a raid is about having as many of your bonuses applicable to as many people as possible, so no one will dual spec their raid to support both shock and fire when they could just support fire all the way.

Individual sets like Frostbite should suit all parties. ZoS makes tonns of useless sets every update. I belive that its possible to make 1 good for electromancers.

CP5 · February 2022

Technically that would be storm-cursed then, it's actually pretty strong in aoe fights giving shock some flare. As for doing unique things, using exactly the same "if frost staff and chilled then brittle" they could do an "if shock staff and concussed then storm cursed" and that would do a lot. Making each element shine in a given area would give them purpose and a meaningful use. Standardizing them just makes weapon choice less meaningful, and the choice would just boil down to which damage type is the most popular.

WrathOfInnos · February 2022

lQrukl wrote: »

Noooo pls. Let me just play my sorc anywhere with storm staff. Skills features are enough, keep passives out of that.
It's destruction staff, not support's staff, not tank's staff, not aoe-only staff. Every staff uses an one of the most destructive element In Tamriel, not only fire should be bis for single-target. Separation only makes it harder, almost impossible to balance.

I should be more clear on this one, because I mostly agree with you. My vision would be:

Buff lightning staff up to the point where it is BiS for most classes on trial/dungeon trash and fights where adds are important (like Nahvi or Vrol), maybe 12% area damage. It doesn't make sense that the meta is 8 DPS with Flame Pulsar for AoE, then 8 DPS with Inferno for all bosses.
Buff Sorcerer shock damage passive to at least 10% (maybe more if we don't get some sort of Shock Vuln set or debuff skill), allowing them to use a lightning staff even for single target fights, and do approximately the same damage as if they used an inferno
Give Dragonknight a passive that increases their Fire Damage by a % (maybe 5%?), so that they maintain the option to use an Inferno Staff even for AoE fights (approx equal to lightning in that scenario)
Warden with frost is pretty decent now TBH, maybe a slight buff to allow Frost Staff to compete with Inferno/Lightning in ST/AoE fights

The other 3 classes don't really have a strong association with an elemental damage type, and therefore would be more likely to switch between them as needed. That doesn't mean they're forced into it, since the buff to lightning staff would also help things like Templar Sweeps and Necro Blastbones. The end result would be closer DPS for different staff types, but still affecting different skills and emphasizing different playstyles.

I don't have a great answer for Ice Staff. As long as it has tank bonuses it is difficult to buff the damage and make it viable for all classes. I think this only works for Magden because the class is already behind most others, and even having a good and unique weapon option doesn't make them overpowered.

lQrukl · February 2022

Give Dragonknight a passive that increases their Fire Damage by a % (maybe 5%?), so that they maintain the option to use an Inferno Staff even for AoE fights (approx equal to lightning in that scenario)

DK already has this buff in passives. And it doesn't help.
I know what I talk about, I'm trying GS right now with other dk that uses storm staff on trash and I am always far behind him if I take fire staff, even using same skills.

I thought about this staff problem so much last weeks. I did not find another solution. Too much factors, they have to be reduced.

CP5 · February 2022

But reducing them to reskins makes the point of having different staves even more irrelevant.

wolfie1.0. · February 2022

I would actually prefer that ZOS give each of these weapons unique skill lines instead of the same tree.

WrathOfInnos · February 2022

lQrukl wrote: »

Give Dragonknight a passive that increases their Fire Damage by a % (maybe 5%?), so that they maintain the option to use an Inferno Staff even for AoE fights (approx equal to lightning in that scenario)

DK already has this buff in passives. And it doesn't help.
I know what I talk about, I'm trying GS right now with other dk that uses storm staff on trash and I am always far behind him if I take fire staff, even using same skills.

You're right, I forgot they changed World in Ruin in September to apply to all fire damage. Good change IMO, one step of my plan already complete

.

Comparing trash DPS between people is difficult. I'd recommend your DK friend try running an Inferno on trash with Pulsar, it's pretty well established meta for most classes, especially DK.

lQrukl wrote: »

I thought about this staff problem so much last weeks. I did not find another solution. Too much factors, they have to be reduced.

It's too much reduction though. You've solved a minor problem by creating a major one, basically one weapon type available in 3 colors.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

I like the change to unstable wall of elements because it helps to close the dumb gap between fire and the other elements.

J18696 · February 2022

These changes would just more or less put us into the same boat since engulfing and encratis are a thing fire is always going tobe just better unless you add in similar buffs for ice or lightning dmg

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

J18696 wrote: »

These changes would just more or less put us into the same boat since engulfing and encratis are a thing fire is always going tobe just better unless you add in similar buffs for ice or lightning dmg

yep. something needs to happen to engulfing/encratis or additional stuff needs to be introduced for other classes.

lQrukl · February 2022

It's too much reduction though. You've solved a minor problem by creating a major one, basically one weapon type available in 3 colors.

I pretty much disagree. Major problem is that mele weapon skill lines already taked all possible individualies that could be balanced: crit chance, spd/wpd, crit damage and penetration. What does not prevent them from being reskins of each other. There is no difference between axe and dager, you can even change one skin to another.

And anything that left to us is poor damage increase. But you cannot reskin staves. You cannot change of ability type as well as gear. If staff is lightining - it is always lightining and makes lightining damage. You can only try to keep nonsense separation of aoe/single target. Or you can release players.

Remember Skyrim's magic. Wasn't fire/frost/lightining reskin for each other? They did equal damage and contains equal spells. But was each fell the same?
All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

emilyhyoyeon · February 2022

lQrukl wrote: »

All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

yeah I've always been confused how people got the idea that ice destruction magic should be for tanking when, relative to fire and lightning, it has never been so in the history of TES.

I like the suggestions. At the very least, current ancient knowledge HAS to go and I like the simple ''destruction staff increases damage done'' idea

WrathOfInnos · February 2022

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

yeah I've always been confused how people got the idea that ice destruction magic should be for tanking when, relative to fire and lightning, it has never been so in the history of TES.

I like the suggestions. At the very least, current ancient knowledge HAS to go and I like the simple ''destruction staff increases damage done'' idea

Agree. All 3 elements should be for damage dealers, and there could be an Alteration Staff for tanking. Skills would include:
- Armor buff/Resist Magic (oakflesh, ironflesh, ebonyflesh)
- Crowd Control (Paralyze)
- Spell Absorb or Elemental Shield
- Telekinesis (pull enemy)
- A taunt (maybe frenzy, although technically an illusion spell)

And I would personally love a passive "Feather" that increases carrying capacity by 10/20 as a reward for leveling the skill line, even when not using that weapon. It could deal either magic or physical damage on light and heavy attacks. Alteration staff would require no new artwork since staves all share the same models, just some casting animations and spell visual effects.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

yeah I've always been confused how people got the idea that ice destruction magic should be for tanking when, relative to fire and lightning, it has never been so in the history of TES.

I like the suggestions. At the very least, current ancient knowledge HAS to go and I like the simple ''destruction staff increases damage done'' idea

Yep. We've been backed into a corner with this silly idea that a destruction staff is for tanking. They've relaxed it somewhat, but it's still a bit of an issue.

emilyhyoyeon · February 2022

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

yeah I've always been confused how people got the idea that ice destruction magic should be for tanking when, relative to fire and lightning, it has never been so in the history of TES.

I like the suggestions. At the very least, current ancient knowledge HAS to go and I like the simple ''destruction staff increases damage done'' idea

Agree. All 3 elements should be for damage dealers, and there could be an Alteration Staff for tanking. Skills would include:
- Armor buff/Resist Magic (oakflesh, ironflesh, ebonyflesh)
- Crowd Control (Paralyze)
- Spell Absorb or Elemental Shield
- Telekinesis (pull enemy)
- A taunt (maybe frenzy, although technically an illusion spell)

And I would personally love a passive "Feather" that increases carrying capacity by 10/20 as a reward for leveling the skill line, even when not using that weapon. It could deal either magic or physical damage on light and heavy attacks. Alteration staff would require no new artwork since staves all share the same models, just some casting animations and spell visual effects.

Alteration has so many good spells for tanking, it's almost too perfect. I don't think the taunt being illusion-based is too big of a deal since the magic schools overlap sometimes and categories of things change (ex. telekinese being mysticism and alteration depending on which magic schools the devs put in the games)

On another note I noticed the OP doesn't include changes to elemental storm. I think the rage morph has good potential for change.

Currently:
Increases the damage and gains a new effect depending on your staff type.
Create a cataclysmic storm at the target location that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies in the area, dealing [2900 / 2932 / 2964 / 2995] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds. Fiery Rage increases the damage by 15%. Icy Rage immobilizes enemies hit for 3 seconds. Thunderous Rage increases the duration by 2 seconds.

The immobilize on ice is actually annoying to have. The fire version has an unnecessary damage buff. I think all 3 would be better off changed. At least, the morph could be simplified to just an increase in damage with no extra effect; or, the fire one fears enemies instead of does 15% more damage.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

yeah I've always been confused how people got the idea that ice destruction magic should be for tanking when, relative to fire and lightning, it has never been so in the history of TES.

I like the suggestions. At the very least, current ancient knowledge HAS to go and I like the simple ''destruction staff increases damage done'' idea

Agree. All 3 elements should be for damage dealers, and there could be an Alteration Staff for tanking. Skills would include:
- Armor buff/Resist Magic (oakflesh, ironflesh, ebonyflesh)
- Crowd Control (Paralyze)
- Spell Absorb or Elemental Shield
- Telekinesis (pull enemy)
- A taunt (maybe frenzy, although technically an illusion spell)

And I would personally love a passive "Feather" that increases carrying capacity by 10/20 as a reward for leveling the skill line, even when not using that weapon. It could deal either magic or physical damage on light and heavy attacks. Alteration staff would require no new artwork since staves all share the same models, just some casting animations and spell visual effects.

Alteration has so many good spells for tanking, it's almost too perfect. I don't think the taunt being illusion-based is too big of a deal since the magic schools overlap sometimes and categories of things change (ex. telekinese being mysticism and alteration depending on which magic schools the devs put in the games)

On another note I noticed the OP doesn't include changes to elemental storm. I think the rage morph has good potential for change.

Currently:
Increases the damage and gains a new effect depending on your staff type.
Create a cataclysmic storm at the target location that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies in the area, dealing [2900 / 2932 / 2964 / 2995] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds. Fiery Rage increases the damage by 15%. Icy Rage immobilizes enemies hit for 3 seconds. Thunderous Rage increases the duration by 2 seconds.

The immobilize on ice is actually annoying to have. The fire version has an unnecessary damage buff. I think all 3 would be better off changed. At least, the morph could be simplified to just an increase in damage with no extra effect; or, the fire one fears enemies instead of does 15% more damage.

The frost based effects are universally worse than the other ones when it comes to dps. Almost insultingly so. Wall costs more because it immobilises and gives a damage shield which is really frustrating for the dps morph, unstable wall of frost. impulse gives minor protection for a short duration which does literally nothing for dps and tanks don't even use it for that and icy rage immobilizes which is both annoying and redundant because of wall. There needs to be dps based effects for 1 morph of each. Though elemental rage is the only morph with element specific effects, but tanks have no reason to use it anyway.

CP5 · February 2022

I enjoy frost staff tanking, and sure my frost warden could potentially pull higher numbers running flame I greatly appreciate some of the defensive utility it provides. Spamming unstable wall in rockgrove to give my allies a damage shield to sponge the projectiles from the exploding shields, rooting loose mobs in frost blockages, debuffing high damage targets to help the tank and aid the group from wide aoe attacks. Frost staff of all things is in a good place I feel as it can be used almost anywhere to good effect, not the best, but solid all around.

Flame is just 'more damage' which is boring and shock is outclassed by flame in that regard more often than not, so giving both the same treatment as frost got, the "if whielding x staff and applying debuff then do extra thing" as well as making elemental reach be a mono-element spammable with the 100% application rate would work well to even this out I feel.

Tannus15 · February 2022

Ancient Knowledge should be applied by the staff it's cast from, not the staff you're holding.

Lightning staff implies it buffs AOE's however since ground target aoe damage is assessed each tick, unless you're holding a lightning staff you don't get the bonus damage.

So the best aoe build is lightning staff on the front with an inferno on the back because firewall is just better in every way than lightning wall.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

Tannus15 wrote: »

Ancient Knowledge should be applied by the staff it's cast from, not the staff you're holding.

Lightning staff implies it buffs AOE's however since ground target aoe damage is assessed each tick, unless you're holding a lightning staff you don't get the bonus damage.

So the best aoe build is lightning staff on the front with an inferno on the back because firewall is just better in every way than lightning wall.

Yep fire beats both frost and shock to an unhealthy degree. The others need to be brought up to it's level on at least unstable wall.

Faulgor · February 2022

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

yeah I've always been confused how people got the idea that ice destruction magic should be for tanking when, relative to fire and lightning, it has never been so in the history of TES.

I like the suggestions. At the very least, current ancient knowledge HAS to go and I like the simple ''destruction staff increases damage done'' idea

Agree. All 3 elements should be for damage dealers, and there could be an Alteration Staff for tanking. Skills would include:
- Armor buff/Resist Magic (oakflesh, ironflesh, ebonyflesh)
- Crowd Control (Paralyze)
- Spell Absorb or Elemental Shield
- Telekinesis (pull enemy)
- A taunt (maybe frenzy, although technically an illusion spell)

And I would personally love a passive "Feather" that increases carrying capacity by 10/20 as a reward for leveling the skill line, even when not using that weapon. It could deal either magic or physical damage on light and heavy attacks. Alteration staff would require no new artwork since staves all share the same models, just some casting animations and spell visual effects.

Alteration has so many good spells for tanking, it's almost too perfect. I don't think the taunt being illusion-based is too big of a deal since the magic schools overlap sometimes and categories of things change (ex. telekinese being mysticism and alteration depending on which magic schools the devs put in the games)

On another note I noticed the OP doesn't include changes to elemental storm. I think the rage morph has good potential for change.

Currently:
Increases the damage and gains a new effect depending on your staff type.
Create a cataclysmic storm at the target location that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies in the area, dealing [2900 / 2932 / 2964 / 2995] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds. Fiery Rage increases the damage by 15%. Icy Rage immobilizes enemies hit for 3 seconds. Thunderous Rage increases the duration by 2 seconds.

The immobilize on ice is actually annoying to have. The fire version has an unnecessary damage buff. I think all 3 would be better off changed. At least, the morph could be simplified to just an increase in damage with no extra effect; or, the fire one fears enemies instead of does 15% more damage.

In days of old, the frost ultimate had a reduced cost. That wasn't too bad.

Besides not making much sense as a tanking weapon (+1 for Alteration Staff), I think Frost staffs are ... fine. With the addition of Brittle they have a unique DPS niche, especially on Warden. Because they double-dip as tanking weapons they almost feel overloaded, if it wasn't for the lacking +10% damage buff fire and shock get for single target and AoE, respectively.

Fire staffs live by the +10% single target bonus and Engulfing Flames. The bonus damage of WoE to burning targets is nice but not outclassed by e.g. Warden's 10% frost damage bonus, so that's not it. If anything, burning feels underdeveloped, as it only deals damage, so I kinda like the idea of fearing burning enemies in fire blockade.

Shock staffs on the other hand are only used for heavy attack builds. Ever since off-balance is not that important anymore. Minor Vulnerability from concussed is also easier to get from other sources (Wardens took that one, too). On paper it's fine, but in practice nobody really needs it.

IMO it's mainly Sorcerers that need better synergy with shock staffs. Like DKs profit from burning and Wardens from chilled, there should be a benefit for applying concussed for Sorcerers. Templars and NBs are mostly magic damage (what's that new magic status effect called again that applies minor magickasteal? expand that, too), and Necromancers are a jack of all elemental trades. Give Sorcs higher crit chance against concussed enemies, or execute damage like the passive they used to have, just something.

Besides that, I agree they should buff Destructive Touch to spammable status for fire and shock as well, not just frost. Some say a pure fire spammable would make fire even stronger, but that just shows how many sources of fire buffs there are and is not an issue with the skill itself.

Also, I just really like the animation.

lQrukl · February 2022

On another note I noticed the OP doesn't include changes to elemental storm.

Thanks! Always forgeting about this ult, my bad.
You know, I just thought that Ice rage might be a great candidate for a Major Brittle applicator imaao, and ZoS can find a better use for Nunatak :^D
Or return it lesser cost, as Faulgor reminded.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

lQrukl wrote: »

On another note I noticed the OP doesn't include changes to elemental storm.

Thanks! Always forgeting about this ult, my bad.
You know, I just thought that Ice rage might be a great candidate for a Major Brittle applicator imaao, and ZoS can find a better use for Nunatak :^D
Or return it lesser cost, as Faulgor reminded.

definitely would have been a MUUUUUUCH better candidate for major brittle than a really awful uncontrollable set in nuna.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

Faulgor wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

lQrukl wrote: »

All of the difference was in side effects. Lightining had faster bolts and drained magica. Frost slowed down enemies and drain their stamina. Fire had the lowest cast time, a bit more damage and you could ez break Wards with it.

yeah I've always been confused how people got the idea that ice destruction magic should be for tanking when, relative to fire and lightning, it has never been so in the history of TES.

I like the suggestions. At the very least, current ancient knowledge HAS to go and I like the simple ''destruction staff increases damage done'' idea

Agree. All 3 elements should be for damage dealers, and there could be an Alteration Staff for tanking. Skills would include:
- Armor buff/Resist Magic (oakflesh, ironflesh, ebonyflesh)
- Crowd Control (Paralyze)
- Spell Absorb or Elemental Shield
- Telekinesis (pull enemy)
- A taunt (maybe frenzy, although technically an illusion spell)

And I would personally love a passive "Feather" that increases carrying capacity by 10/20 as a reward for leveling the skill line, even when not using that weapon. It could deal either magic or physical damage on light and heavy attacks. Alteration staff would require no new artwork since staves all share the same models, just some casting animations and spell visual effects.

Alteration has so many good spells for tanking, it's almost too perfect. I don't think the taunt being illusion-based is too big of a deal since the magic schools overlap sometimes and categories of things change (ex. telekinese being mysticism and alteration depending on which magic schools the devs put in the games)

On another note I noticed the OP doesn't include changes to elemental storm. I think the rage morph has good potential for change.

Currently:
Increases the damage and gains a new effect depending on your staff type.
Create a cataclysmic storm at the target location that builds for 2 seconds then lays waste to all enemies in the area, dealing [2900 / 2932 / 2964 / 2995] Magic Damage every 1 second for 7 seconds. Fiery Rage increases the damage by 15%. Icy Rage immobilizes enemies hit for 3 seconds. Thunderous Rage increases the duration by 2 seconds.

The immobilize on ice is actually annoying to have. The fire version has an unnecessary damage buff. I think all 3 would be better off changed. At least, the morph could be simplified to just an increase in damage with no extra effect; or, the fire one fears enemies instead of does 15% more damage.

In days of old, the frost ultimate had a reduced cost. That wasn't too bad.

it should either be returned to that, or be given major brittle to be used in-between horns.

ealdwin · February 2022

If I understand correctly, It seems part of the Flame/Shock problem is that Single Target Damage and Area of Effect Damage boosts are too situational, and in many cases Flame's Single Target Damage wins out.

Would a better distinction between the two perhaps be Flame providing a boost to Damage over Time and Shock providing a boost to Direct Damage? I don't know if it would be a perfect solution, but initial thought is it would line the elements up more with DKs and Sorcerers.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

ealdwin wrote: »

If I understand correctly, It seems part of the Flame/Shock problem is that Single Target Damage and Area of Effect Damage boosts are too situational, and in many cases Flame's Single Target Damage wins out.

Would a better distinction between the two perhaps be Flame providing a boost to Damage over Time and Shock providing a boost to Direct Damage? I don't know if it would be a perfect solution, but initial thought is it would line the elements up more with DKs and Sorcerers.

no, fire is supposed to be the best regardless. you're not supposed to use anything else

Tannus15 · February 2022

yeah, inferno is just straight up better.

look at wall of elements.

not only is burning one of the strongest status effects in the game because every player can proc it and increase their damage, but from memory wall of elements damage is buffed by a crazy 20% when the target is burning. so even if they have the same tool tip damage, wall of lightning is doing significantly less damage when burning procs. this is ignoring any benefits from other buffs like engulfing or encratis.

additionally the lightning status debuff is group wide, minor vulnerability or off balance which means the more people are using it the less benefit you're getting from it. it doesn't stack like burning does.

finally on top of all that, if you run lightning on the back and inferno on the front, the staff aoe damage increase only applies when you're on the back bar.
basically if you're running a lighting staff on the back bar, you're doing it wrong.

that's not an opinion, that's just maths.

ESO_Nightingale · February 2022

Tannus15 wrote: »

yeah, inferno is just straight up better.

look at wall of elements.

not only is burning one of the strongest status effects in the game because every player can proc it and increase their damage, but from memory wall of elements damage is buffed by a crazy 20% when the target is burning. so even if they have the same tool tip damage, wall of lightning is doing significantly less damage when burning procs. this is ignoring any benefits from other buffs like engulfing or encratis.

additionally the lightning status debuff is group wide, minor vulnerability or off balance which means the more people are using it the less benefit you're getting from it. it doesn't stack like burning does.

finally on top of all that, if you run lightning on the back and inferno on the front, the staff aoe damage increase only applies when you're on the back bar.
basically if you're running a lighting staff on the back bar, you're doing it wrong.

that's not an opinion, that's just maths.

nah you're supposed to like that fire is overwhelmingly better than the other 2 :P

though i suppose it doesn't matter much. stampede is our new overlord next patch.