No symmetrical minor crit buffs for magblade or stamsorc?

xylena_lazarow · February 2022

Are the devs scared of magblades overrunning PvE again? This seems like an weird hill to die on, a big middle finger at two underpowered PvP specs. Stamsorc also received another indirect nerf in that there's one less ability that can be buffed by its Physical damage passive. They already lost out when Twin Slashes was changed to Bleed, now they lose out on Soul Trap.

Firstmep · February 2022

Not sure what you are on about, none of the classes got symmetrical minor buffs.
Not sure how magblades and stamsorcs fit in here.

xylena_lazarow · February 2022

Firstmep wrote: »

Not sure what you are on about, none of the classes got symmetrical minor buffs.
Not sure how magblades and stamsorcs fit in here.

These are both underperforming PvP specs that sorely need access to their class crit chance buff, but instead they're being screwed over for some PvE "unique raid utility" argument. I don't think giving the minor damage buff to mdk or stamplar would break the game either, even if mdk is already strong (the Burning Embers change is a bigger buff anyway).

SeaUnicorn · February 2022

PVE "unique utility" around minors is not that good for PVE either, all it does is shoehorning healers and tanks onto classes that do least damage this patch. So you pick your healer or tank class because group is missing certain minor buff.

MashmalloMan · February 2022

Gotta slow your roll, this has nothing to do with balance or class favouritsm. You gotta read the notes again while also taking into consideration the context of the situation..

Note that player passives and consumables that grant the Minor versions of these have not been adjusted at this time, in order to preserve class unique power contribution for coordinated groups.

We’ll also be dual sourcing buffs on abilities and item sets like Major Prophecy with Major Savagery, with the same thing applying to Brutality and Sorcery. In the long term, we plan on simply merging these bonuses so there are fewer names and effects you need to worry about, but there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes work that will result from that; as such, it may take quite some time before we’re able to do that.

Basically, when they combine the named buffs, NB/Sorc would have the same buff and Templar/DK would have the same buff. This is NOT what they want. The objective is to have each class bring at least 1 unique thing to the table so they actually have a seat, they're choosing to keep that design choice..

So by the time they get around to actually combining them, they will have to design completely new buffs.

Warrior vs Apprentice Mundus Stones.
Physical vs Magical Jewelry Enchantments.
Class minor buffs.
Potions that give Major Brutality/Sorcery/Savagery/Prophecy.
Poisons that give Minor Brutality/Sorcery/Savagery/Prophecy.

I expect these changes for Update 34 or 35 or honestly even 36. When they suggested combining Breach/Fracture and Ward/Resolve, we had to wait 3-4 updates before it actually happened.

MashmalloMan · February 2022

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

PVE "unique utility" around minors is not that good for PVE either, all it does is shoehorning healers and tanks onto classes that do least damage this patch. So you pick your healer or tank class because group is missing certain minor buff.

What is the alternative exactly and when has that actually applied to you or most of the players? At the bare minimum, you want 1 of each class then a few Necro's. Thats about 9/12 slots.

So lets remove that, then what happens? A meta will always exist, even if it's by 3-5% dps, those same snobby group compositions would just be made to only include 12 Necro's or 12 DKs for example.

The alternative to what you hate is much worse. The real issue is how unique class buffs are supplied. The Engulfing Flames debuff or Poop Stagger debuff or even Necro's ulti are examples of better ways to provide them because they require a more specific role (in most cases). Maybe they could adjust that some how, it's definitely a point of trouble but it would be a lot worse without it.

katorga · February 2022

MashmalloMan wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

PVE "unique utility" around minors is not that good for PVE either, all it does is shoehorning healers and tanks onto classes that do least damage this patch. So you pick your healer or tank class because group is missing certain minor buff.

What is the alternative exactly and when has that actually applied to you or most of the players? At the bare minimum, you want 1 of each class then a few Necro's. Thats about 9/12 slots.

So lets remove that, then what happens? A meta will always exist, even if it's by 3-5% dps, those same snobby group compositions would just be made to only include 12 Necro's or 12 DKs for example.

The alternative to what you hate is much worse. The real issue is how unique class buffs are supplied. The Engulfing Flames debuff or Poop Stagger debuff or even Necro's ulti are examples of better ways to provide them because they require a more specific role (in most cases). Maybe they could adjust that some how, it's definitely a point of trouble but it would be a lot worse without it.

Isn't the necro major vulnerability being supplied by a set next patch?

MashmalloMan · February 2022

katorga wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

SeaUnicorn wrote: »

PVE "unique utility" around minors is not that good for PVE either, all it does is shoehorning healers and tanks onto classes that do least damage this patch. So you pick your healer or tank class because group is missing certain minor buff.

What is the alternative exactly and when has that actually applied to you or most of the players? At the bare minimum, you want 1 of each class then a few Necro's. Thats about 9/12 slots.

So lets remove that, then what happens? A meta will always exist, even if it's by 3-5% dps, those same snobby group compositions would just be made to only include 12 Necro's or 12 DKs for example.

The alternative to what you hate is much worse. The real issue is how unique class buffs are supplied. The Engulfing Flames debuff or Poop Stagger debuff or even Necro's ulti are examples of better ways to provide them because they require a more specific role (in most cases). Maybe they could adjust that some how, it's definitely a point of trouble but it would be a lot worse without it.

Isn't the necro major vulnerability being supplied by a set next patch?

Yeah, thats kinda dumb honestly, but also, not sure if people will really do it. It's a tank set and you'd need at least 2 people with it, it's also a lot less range.. There isn't a whole lot of space for tank set swapping and 1 skill from a Necro trumps an entire set change imo.. but we'll see I guess.

xylena_lazarow · February 2022

Good news! After some PTS testing, it's apparent Stamsorc can simply stack Spell Crit as its primary crit stat in order to gain the benefits of its minor crit class passive, though this restricts which potions you can use if you're not slotting Camo Hunter. Magblade can do the same with Weapon Crit, stamplar with Spell Damage, and mdk with Weapon Damage.