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Any Tanks Tried Retreating Maneuver?
Eormenric
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Why do I have a sinking feeling that the moment I bring this up it'll get changed just like Mist Form...
Retreating Maneuver says that all attacks from behind are reduced by 15%. So you can engage your target, turn around (and still block attacks), and have it reduced 15% when needed. While it is a big chunk of stamina to keep this up, it finally gives a use to Vampire's Drain Vigor for a lot of stamina gain. With some awkward WASD work, you can even do the channel from behind, allowing you to reap passive 15% damage reduction while your stamina regens.
Might be too niche, but for the really hard hitting stuff, it could be worth looking into. I didn't see talk of this on the forums, so I thought I'd bring it up.
Retreating Maneuver says that all attacks from behind are reduced by 15%. So you can engage your target, turn around (and still block attacks), and have it reduced 15% when needed. While it is a big chunk of stamina to keep this up, it finally gives a use to Vampire's Drain Vigor for a lot of stamina gain. With some awkward WASD work, you can even do the channel from behind, allowing you to reap passive 15% damage reduction while your stamina regens.
Might be too niche, but for the really hard hitting stuff, it could be worth looking into. I didn't see talk of this on the forums, so I thought I'd bring it up.
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pelle412✭✭✭✭✭I think it's too expensive to be of any realistic use. There are other ways to reduce incoming damage that is nowhere near this expensive.1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not needed for mitigation, to high cost vs time, and would mess up all your targeting for skills.1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As others have said it is a bit expensive and isn't all that good in all honesty for tanking. I will say this though about Vampire's Drain Vigor, it's better than most people make it out to be. On paper it looks like it sucks but it's missing health heal can be boosted by single target healing, healing done, and the Powered weapon trait. Then all boosts to healing received add on top of that incoming heal.
Exhilarating Drain doesn't get boosted by all the healing buffs meaning the only way to increase it's healing is through healing received buffs. Something to keep in mind.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Eormenric✭✭✭As others have said it is a bit expensive and isn't all that good in all honesty for tanking. I will say this though about Vampire's Drain Vigor, it's better than most people make it out to be. On paper it looks like it sucks but it's missing health heal can be boosted by single target healing, healing done, and the Powered weapon trait. Then all boosts to healing received add on top of that incoming heal.
Exhilarating Drain doesn't get boosted by all the healing buffs meaning the only way to increase it's healing is through healing received buffs. Something to keep in mind.
Why would Drain Vigor be affected by that and Exhilarating Drain not? I'm not in-game right now, but the tooltip looks identical aside from Stamina/Ult regen.
I hear your concerns @pelle412 and @paulsimonps. I haven't tested in a live environment, but I'm curious to give it a proper go. Could be not at all viable, or could be the largest skill ceiling ever for tanks--like people would enjoy that... :P0 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭I hear your concerns @pelle412 and @paulsimonps. I haven't tested in a live environment, but I'm curious to give it a proper go. Could be not at all viable, or could be the largest skill ceiling ever for tanks--like people would enjoy that... :P
On paper it looks to me like a solution in search of a problem. Find the problem first that isn't already solved by simpler methods, and maybe you have something
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As others have said it is a bit expensive and isn't all that good in all honesty for tanking. I will say this though about Vampire's Drain Vigor, it's better than most people make it out to be. On paper it looks like it sucks but it's missing health heal can be boosted by single target healing, healing done, and the Powered weapon trait. Then all boosts to healing received add on top of that incoming heal.
Exhilarating Drain doesn't get boosted by all the healing buffs meaning the only way to increase it's healing is through healing received buffs. Something to keep in mind.
Why would Drain Vigor be affected by that and Exhilarating Drain not? I'm not in-game right now, but the tooltip looks identical aside from Stamina/Ult regen.
I have no idea why Exhilarating Drain is exempt. Drain Vigor starts at 25% missing health but sticking it on a powered bar will put it at 27% missing health restored a second. Further buffs will boost the value higher. For example here it is with Powered + Major Mending + 10% Single Target healing CP.
PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Eormenric✭✭✭As others have said it is a bit expensive and isn't all that good in all honesty for tanking. I will say this though about Vampire's Drain Vigor, it's better than most people make it out to be. On paper it looks like it sucks but it's missing health heal can be boosted by single target healing, healing done, and the Powered weapon trait. Then all boosts to healing received add on top of that incoming heal.
Exhilarating Drain doesn't get boosted by all the healing buffs meaning the only way to increase it's healing is through healing received buffs. Something to keep in mind.
Why would Drain Vigor be affected by that and Exhilarating Drain not? I'm not in-game right now, but the tooltip looks identical aside from Stamina/Ult regen.
I have no idea why Exhilarating Drain is exempt. Drain Vigor starts at 25% missing health but sticking it on a powered bar will put it at 27% missing health restored a second. Further buffs will boost the value higher. For example here it is with Powered + Major Mending + 10% Single Target healing CP.
Whoa. Thanks for showing that drastic change in numbers! Stuff like this really gets me thinking.0 -
Eormenric✭✭✭I hear your concerns @pelle412 and @paulsimonps. I haven't tested in a live environment, but I'm curious to give it a proper go. Could be not at all viable, or could be the largest skill ceiling ever for tanks--like people would enjoy that... :P
On paper it looks to me like a solution in search of a problem. Find the problem first that isn't already solved by simpler methods, and maybe you have something
Very wise words. To start, I'm wondering which direction soak mechanics have--if you can be "hit" by them from behind. I'm on the case!0 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well at any rate it's useful traveling through dungeons to chokepoints, as well as specific situations like Castle Thorn and The Cauldron final fights.PC NA0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As others have said it is a bit expensive and isn't all that good in all honesty for tanking. I will say this though about Vampire's Drain Vigor, it's better than most people make it out to be. On paper it looks like it sucks but it's missing health heal can be boosted by single target healing, healing done, and the Powered weapon trait. Then all boosts to healing received add on top of that incoming heal.
Exhilarating Drain doesn't get boosted by all the healing buffs meaning the only way to increase it's healing is through healing received buffs. Something to keep in mind.
Why would Drain Vigor be affected by that and Exhilarating Drain not? I'm not in-game right now, but the tooltip looks identical aside from Stamina/Ult regen.
I have no idea why Exhilarating Drain is exempt. Drain Vigor starts at 25% missing health but sticking it on a powered bar will put it at 27% missing health restored a second. Further buffs will boost the value higher. For example here it is with Powered + Major Mending + 10% Single Target healing CP.
Whoa. Thanks for showing that drastic change in numbers! Stuff like this really gets me thinking.
You're welcome. I also found that the healing from both morphs of Drain is able to critically heal as well. So a Tank build with a lot of healing buffs, a spell critical potion or ability, and time to spare is going to have a powerful self heal in PvE if they can afford to drop block for it. My DK tank uses Exhilarating Drain for the ultimate generation, but I make sure Spiked Armor is up before channeling for the increased healing recieved.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Eormenric✭✭✭After more testing, I found out that the ability checks the source of damage and determines if it is behind you or not in every instance of damage. That means it can reduce the damage of AoEs, DoTs, and Channels dynamically as long as you have you back turned to whatever applied it. Example: There's a Storm Atro WB in Stormhaven that sends a projectile to you that then applies a dot. Whenever you turn your back to the WB, the dot will be reduced. Otherwise, it'll tick as normal. I'd need to test this, but this could mean bosses like Scorion Broodlord (the first boss in vet Dread Cellar) could have their hard-hitting dot reduced by 15% simply by turning your back to them. Environmental instances have no source and therefore cannot be reduced.
I just want to note that Retreating Maneuver affects the entire group (I forgot myself). So I think it also needs to be considered for any hard-hitting content where the group can/does have their back turned to the source of damage.
To that end, maybe a healer would best be the user of this ability--even better if the healer and tank are coordinated for perfect use.
Edited by Eormenric on January 28, 2022 9:49PM1