Adding a guild kick message ?

CaliphStudio · January 2022

Currently as a guild master/officer, if you kick a member, all they get is the small top right message, that disappears after about 3 seconds, and only if you are online.

My small suggestion is to add:
1: a notification to players who get kicked.
2: an attached message to the notification, written by guild master/officers to the kicked player.
3: a default "kick" message, just to simplify step 2.

I know it sounds like the type of suggestion that affects less than 1% of the players and even for them its not a big change, mainly because most of us have not considered this a problem but properly telling players what happened and why enhances the experience greatly, specially around frustrating situations like getting kicked out of a guild.

Personal experience: after simply adding "You are welcome back into the guild regardless of being kicked rightly, or mistakenly" in the guild description, the amount of people joining back after getting kicked nearly doubled, most of them not knowing why they were kicked even tho it was quite obvious, not meeting the sale requirements in a trading guild. to specifically see why Im asking for the 3 suggestions:

1: this one just makes sense, getting notified when something as importantly as getting kicked out of a guild is the base of any system, certainly more important than leaderboard notifications that we do have.
2: a guild description text is far less effective than a personalized and specialized message, its you, and getting kicked, instead of an entire guild and every matter in it. so if the former helped, the latter will do much more, it helps guild masters explain exactly why the member is being kicked, offering them the way back if its possible, and as a result, less confusion and frustration built around guilds.
3: Pretty sure more than 90% of members being kicked in guilds are being kicked for one or several fixed, specific reasons, a default message will help officers have a smooth rather than annoying experience, not having to click and paste a pre-written message every time.

To see why I care read this little story:
In the (trading) guild we have a small sales requirement for keeping the inactives out, which is counted for every trading week, meaning the time between each trader reset (which is on tuesday evenings), meaning if officers are busy on tuesday, kick a player on wednesday who has sold something on tuesday night, the kick has been correctly but the player feels betrayed becaue they got kicked right after selling. this same thing happened, and we were lucky enough to have the player to join our discord, share images of his sales, get a proper explanation and join back, but many more get kicked, feel betrayed and continue without a word, a proper message would be appreciated on both sides and make the experience more healthy.
I talk of trading guild but the same mistakes could happen as getting kicked for not being online in a social guild while youre just hiding, or getting kicked out of an active PvE/PvP guild because you didnt have internet for a week.

For those who disagree:
This forum is to give ZoS suggestions not orders, in the end its ZoS that decides how many devs they need and what those devs should be working on, so it'd be appreciated if we keep comments like "It takes hours of dev time to make something that is not needed" out of the way and focus on why this would be a bad/good idea, I too know its a small matter, but it also takes a small amount of resources.

Amottica · January 2022

It makes sense there would be an in-game generic mail that states they were removed from the guild and the guild's name included.

As for attaching a message from the guildmaster or officer, if they want to send a specific message then they can already do that. That does not need to be added.

CaliphStudio wrote: »

For those who disagree:
This forum is to give ZoS suggestions not orders, in the end its ZoS that decides how many devs they need and what those devs should be working on, so it'd be appreciated if we keep comments like "It takes hours of dev time to make something that is not needed" out of the way and focus on why this would be a bad/good idea, I too know its a small matter, but it also takes a small amount of resources.

This forum is for fostering discussion amongst the players and with Zenimax. Creating a thread is asking for a discussion on the topic which includes posts in agreement and disagreement.

SilverBride · January 2022

A generic mail announcing the removal would be appropriate, but the rest isn't necessary. Guild leaders should be communicating with their members and letting them know if there are problems before it gets to that point.

Amottica · January 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

A generic mail announcing the removal would be appropriate, but the rest isn't necessary. Guild leaders should be communicating with their members and letting them know if there are problems before it gets to that point.

I agree, which should be obvious based on my other post.

However, there is one instance where the guild leadership should not bother communicating anything before kicking the player and that is a heavy drama situation. It is the worst thing that can happen in a guild. Guilds I have led in the past always had a zero tolerance for drama. Guild leaders can send such a message afterward.

spartaxoxo · January 2022

I think such a thing couldn't hurt given the way traders work in this game. Simple generic messages could be selected for inactivity, trade, or just a generic have a good one. And then the option to select "other" for a more personalized message.

It should be locked though to 30 minutes after the kick though, in case it's a high drama kick so that cooler heads can prevail.

Or they could just leave it the way it is tbh

DreamyLu · January 2022

I'm guild leader in another MMO in which we have exactly the same problem. What I do is that I have a text file in which I have written down several "standard" guild notifications (for usual situations repeating often), like typically a message for when I kick off a members. So, before to kick, I open a mail, copy/paste the standard text from my .txt file, adapt a bit if necessary and send it. First after that, I kick the person from the guild.

It's a bit annoying but well, since it's only a copy/paste, that goes fairly fast.

To me, the solution of an automatic message from the system would be OK only if I have the possibility to adapt it. I have regularly situations in which the message needs a bit more than just a standard content.
However, well, I could still send a mail in such cases, aside of the automatic sending.

CaliphStudio · January 2022

Since everybody talks about mails, Im gonna answer all in one message.

I never talked about a mail, but a proper notification, like the one you get when the message of the day for a guild changes.

but before getting to that lets answer some comments:

The guild master should discuss the matter with members beforehand: We kick approximately 70 members every week just based on their sales (no drama or unique situation), discussing the matter with 70 members beforehand with some even not being online for the entire week, is just out of the question, as I told you, this is not about unique situations where theres some drama, this is about guilds kicking members in mass, your suggestion works only and only for small scale, usually social guilds.

The guild master should write a mail to the member: I simply say no:
First, eso doesnt have a fuild "send mail" button, for me to send a mail to 70 members a week, it means for each kick (usually taking about 5 seconds) I need to memorize the player name, open mail, "type" the name down with is a pain for people with non English alphabet, then paste my already written message from an external txt file or some discord server, write the subject, then wait for afew seconds for the slow mailing system to send the mail, while constantly making sure you are not doing it to the wrong member(meaning mail and kick match), we already jumped from 5 seconds to about 2 minutes here, and kicking every member like that for a guild like me is a job on itself.

Second, Mails can be full, yes thats a thing, a guild master manually sending a mail is simply unreliable.

Third, A mail can be overlooked very easily, a notification not, anybody here agrees with message of the day being shown in mails? probably no, and you are right.

Considering these 3, you know very easily why no large scale guild has ever sent mails to members, we all have considered it, its simply not worth it unless your members dont exceed 300 (in which case you can easily afford not kicking people regularly).

As much as I appreciate this, we are again falling down into the pit hole of its not important and people have to do it manually without saying why it is bad for such a system to exist.

Amottica wrote: »

This forum is for fostering discussion amongst the players and with Zenimax. Creating a thread is asking for a discussion on the topic which includes posts in agreement and disagreement.

In regards to this, I totally agree and if you read my post properly you see I have asked for disagreement. I am asking for simple dismissive comments to be kept away (Like some above about how you should do it yourself, without any logical explanation as to why exactly the suggestion is bad or how it can be hurtful or wrong, who usually use the "Its not worth the effort" as their logic, which is not the purpose of forums. saying "somebody should do something" isnt helpful, its saying "why you should do something" that is. please disagree, but with reason.

As for why notifications, because for such a core system (guilds in a MMO), notifications just make sense, exactly like what you get when joining (or getting rejected) a guild via applications, the server sending a mail telling you, you got kicked, is simply a flawed design. mails are used either for messages including an item, when things can be considered a spam, meaning they are used alot, things that might need to be logged like a message with important information in it, or for exceptions (A game master sending a mail), simple systematic text is why we have notifications in the first place.

I dont see a guild kick message being in any category.

Necrotech_Master · January 2022

i think i understand what you are suggesting, something similar to how when you request a friend invite you type in the name, and an optional message, which is then sent to the person as a notification

in this instance you are wanting this type of feature for guild kicking, however i do not know if they could implement that for say a mass kick

the current friend request only takes in 1 user name at a time, which in your situation of needing a mass inactive kick you would have to be able to list 1 OR MORE users that would have to get removed in addition to the (optional) message

i personally dont see a problem with this if it would be technically possible to add something that can hit multiple users, and i also agree that mail is not reliable (i have several friends who have their mail constantly full all the time)

SilverBride · January 2022

CaliphStudio wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

This forum is for fostering discussion amongst the players and with Zenimax. Creating a thread is asking for a discussion on the topic which includes posts in agreement and disagreement.

In regards to this, I totally agree and if you read my post properly you see I have asked for disagreement. I am asking for simple dismissive comments to be kept away (Like some above about how you should do it yourself, without any logical explanation as to why exactly the suggestion is bad or how it can be hurtful or wrong, who usually use the "Its not worth the effort" as their logic, which is not the purpose of forums. saying "somebody should do something" isnt helpful, its saying "why you should do something" that is. please disagree, but with reason.

We can't choose what kind of feedback we get for our suggestions. All feedback is appropriate whether a reason for their opinion is given or not.

CaliphStudio · January 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

in this instance you are wanting this type of feature for guild kicking, however i do not know if they could implement that for say a mass kick

It is not really required for a mass kick, thats why a default message could be used, something exactly as adding friends, but with the message box being already filled with a previously set message, which can be changed based on the person if you decide.

Long as it works for one person, it is good enough, a mass kick would be somewhat useless anyways as mostly kicks are done by right clicking on the player not putting their name down.

We already get a "Are you sure you want to kick this player" message when we try to kick people, we could simply change it to "Are you sure you want to kick this player for this reason".

hafgood · January 2022

No.

It is isn't needed and may not be appropriate, there will be times when you kick for someone's behaviour and then you want them gone quickly. You don't want to have to choose a message to send from presumably a list of those available.

If someone is inactive then sending them a message telling them they have been kicked for inactivity is rather redundant, that message may never be read but still sits there on the server taking up space.

And if its a trading guild - well you know what your weekly requirements are, if you don't meet them expect to get kicked, and there are not going to be many that fulfil your requirements - especially when you consider that is a PC problem. On Console its a lot easier, you pay your fee or you get kicked, there are no sales requirements.

So you are asking for something to tell players they have been kicked from the PC trading guild because they haven't met sales requirements so they know why they have been kicked? So given your highlighted case where they had met the requirements but still got kicked sending a message wouldn't stop this from happening. They would still be kicked.

This feels more like an officer / GM issue than a Zos issue, sorry but if the officers were doing their job properly the player wouldn't have been kicked as the officer would have known about the sales requirement having been met.

CaliphStudio · January 2022

hafgood wrote: »

No.

It is isn't needed and may not be appropriate, there will be times when you kick for someone's behaviour and then you want them gone quickly. You don't want to have to choose a message to send from presumably a list of those available.

As I have said, you should be able to change the message, shouldnt take more than 5 seconds to select a default text and press delete, seems quick enough to me.

hafgood wrote: »

If someone is inactive then sending them a message telling them they have been kicked for inactivity is rather redundant, that message may never be read but still sits there on the server taking up space.

A simple notification is just a string, not even reaching 1kb of space, we invest much more than that to already inactive people who come in during free to play events, never to return, if that is an issue ZoS can delete any notification after 30 days, as they do with mails.

hafgood wrote: »

And if its a trading guild - well you know what your weekly requirements are, if you don't meet them expect to get kicked, and there are not going to be many that fulfil your requirements - especially when you consider that is a PC problem. On Console its a lot easier, you pay your fee or you get kicked, there are no sales requirements.

This feels more like an officer / GM issue than a Zos issue, sorry but if the officers were doing their job properly the player wouldn't have been kicked as the officer would have known about the sales requirement having been met.

As I have said, things arent black and white, from personal experience many people dont even know their sales, or they dont know exactly trading weeks work. a message allows officers to explain, a chance for the player to know if he got kicked rightfully, and a chance for the guild to keep its reputation. nobody spoke of officers not doing their job right, I spoke of people not knowing how the system works and blaming it on the guild. even for those who blame themselves, it is good for them to get a message to know whether they are welcome back or not should they want it.

NettleCarrier · January 2022

As someone who runs a light trading (no dues based) casual guild, we had to set a new rule a few months back with a 3 week inactivity limit because of all the newer players that would join and then stop playing. It was seriously at the point where we had 200+ members that had been offline a year or more. We've been doing much better now that applications are coming in as fast as we remove players but it would be really nice if we could remind players that we remove somehow that they are welcome back at any point no questions asked. I *could* mail each person saying this but there's no addon I can find to help cut down how many screens I'd have to open. Hopefully players know through our info/MOTD about this policy but I wouldn't be surprised if many just don't read it.

Another response here said something like "an officer should have been talking to them before it got to that point" but this just doesn't fit my scenario at all. If they were online or otherwise reachable through discord or game then they wouldn't be someone we'd target for inactivity lol. Also like most guilds if we have someone who we know has told us they'll be gone for an extended time, they just get a "do not kick" style role and we don't kick them.

SilverBride · January 2022

NettleCarrier wrote: »

As someone who runs a light trading (no dues based) casual guild, we had to set a new rule a few months back with a 3 week inactivity limit because of all the newer players that would join and then stop playing. It was seriously at the point where we had 200+ members that had been offline a year or more. We've been doing much better now that applications are coming in as fast as we remove players but it would be really nice if we could remind players that we remove somehow that they are welcome back at any point no questions asked. I *could* mail each person saying this but there's no addon I can find to help cut down how many screens I'd have to open. Hopefully players know through our info/MOTD about this policy but I wouldn't be surprised if many just don't read it.

Another response here said something like "an officer should have been talking to them before it got to that point" but this just doesn't fit my scenario at all. If they were online or otherwise reachable through discord or game then they wouldn't be someone we'd target for inactivity lol. Also like most guilds if we have someone who we know has told us they'll be gone for an extended time, they just get a "do not kick" style role and we don't kick them.

I said that someone should have talked to the member before it got to that point, but I should clarify. If the reason was for disruptive behavior or some similar situation then talking to them first may resolve the issue. If not, then whisper them or send them an in game mail explaining.

As far as trade guilds, it is up to the member to track their sales and make sure they are meeting requirements. If they aren't no further explanation is needed because they knew this would result in being kicked.

The same for inactivity. If they fail to inform the guild master or an officer that they will be inactive for an extended time it's on them if they get kicked.

So there is really no need for detailed explanation for most of these situations.

hafgood · January 2022

I'm sorry but this just feels such a niche feature I can't see the point of it.

If players don't read the MOTD then that's on them.

If players don't understand how the trading guild works then that's on both the trading guild and the player.

And while the string won't be 1kb in length multiply that up across 6 servers, thousands of guilds and the small string becomes a lot of small strings which becomes a lot of space.

And the amount of work involved is going up as it now needs linking to the 30 day expiry routine....

CaliphStudio · January 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

I said that someone should have talked to the member before it got to that point, but I should clarify. If the reason was for disruptive behavior or some similar situation then talking to them first may resolve the issue. If not, then whisper them or send them an in game mail explaining.

As far as trade guilds, it is up to the member to track their sales and make sure they are meeting requirements. If they aren't no further explanation is needed because they knew this would result in being kicked.

The same for inactivity. If they fail to inform the guild master or an officer that they will be inactive for an extended time it's on them if they get kicked.

So there is really no need for detailed explanation for most of these situations.

It is one thing to say "Its up to people to know" and another for them to actually know. unfortunately, people do not know most of the time. they feel hurt, or even if they do know, as a newbie getting kicked makes you afraid of social interactions, but having a nice message beside the kick saying "We would be happy to have you back if you want to continue with us" makes the game healthy for all the players out there getting kicked in such guilds.

There is something I seriously dont get about these comments, you keep saying why its on players to do this and that but nobody talks about what is the harm in such a system existing?

Most of the comments keeps talking about what people should do instead of what people actually do, that is not useful, certainly not from a design stand point.

The guy getting kicked from his guild who has been playing for a month and doesnt even know the game has forums, doesnt really care about what you and I thing he should do.

spartaxoxo · January 2022

CaliphStudio wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I said that someone should have talked to the member before it got to that point, but I should clarify. If the reason was for disruptive behavior or some similar situation then talking to them first may resolve the issue. If not, then whisper them or send them an in game mail explaining.

As far as trade guilds, it is up to the member to track their sales and make sure they are meeting requirements. If they aren't no further explanation is needed because they knew this would result in being kicked.

The same for inactivity. If they fail to inform the guild master or an officer that they will be inactive for an extended time it's on them if they get kicked.

So there is really no need for detailed explanation for most of these situations.

It is one thing to say "Its up to people to know" and another for them to actually know. unfortunately, people do not know most of the time. they feel hurt, or even if they do know, as a newbie getting kicked makes you afraid of social interactions, but having a nice message beside the kick saying "We would be happy to have you back if you want to continue with us" makes the game healthy for all the players out there getting kicked in such guilds.

There is something I seriously dont get about these comments, you keep saying why its on players to do this and that but nobody talks about what is the harm in such a system existing?

Most of the comments keeps talking about what people should do instead of what people actually do, that is not useful, certainly not from a design stand point.

The guy getting kicked from his guild who has been playing for a month and doesnt even know the game has forums, doesnt really care about what you and I thing he should do.

Not to mention people handle rejection a lot better when they understand a reason why, helps bring closure.

NettleCarrier · January 2022

I'm also not suggesting it be an email, it can just be a notification like MoTDs or new collectibles. Those shouldn't expire until they are cleared out, just like returned gift notifications. I don't see any harm in it, especially when it works towards being a more positive community. Yes, the guildie will probably understand why they were kicked for inactivity, but why put obstacles in my way when I'm looking for a way to leave a nice message for them ensuring they don't have to feel bad/weird about asking to come back.

SilverBride · January 2022

CaliphStudio wrote: »

It is one thing to say "Its up to people to know" and another for them to actually know. unfortunately, people do not know most of the time.

Put the requirements in the message of the day and make it clear that these are the requirements and this is what will happen if they don't meet them.

CaliphStudio wrote: »

There is something I seriously dont get about these comments, you keep saying why its on players to do this and that but nobody talks about what is the harm in such a system existing?

Most of the comments keeps talking about what people should do instead of what people actually do, that is not useful, certainly not from a design stand point.

Guild leaders are responsible to post their requirements and the consequences of not meeting them and direct members to where this information is posted.

Members are responsible to read the information they were directed to.

If a member was given information and didn't read it, or read it but didn't comply that is their own fault. Guild leaders should not have to watch every single member to make sure they are doing what they should be. Members have responsibilities too.

CaliphStudio · January 2022

@SilverBride

What you say is correct, and I assume every single serious guild out there does so (I personally have it both in my advertisement message and my application message for people to read the guild description once when they join, and every single guild rule is explained there).

What you are not considering tho is that still more than half the people dont do that (Its like ZoS tells its players they need to read the long privacy policy message before playing the game, sure it is true, but still less than 1% do so if any).

And you still are not answering my question, if a nice kick message can help with all of that, what is the harm in it existing?

What you say about their responsibility is true and not my point of debate, my question is, should we give a better experience to those who dont care about guild rules? which include the majority of players in fact. eso is not the court and we are not deciding on whom to blame, we want to help players regardless of all of that, and this extremely simple system allows that.

And as much as I get all of that, I personally never ever read any guild rules, I wouldve not minded being kicked either but my point is, myself and most of my friends even dont care about reading stuff, so what we are talking about is not a matter of the small group of weirdos or slackers, for us to dismiss them so easily.

SilverBride · January 2022

CaliphStudio wrote: »

What you say is correct, and I assume every single serious guild out there does so (I personally have it both in my advertisement message and my application message for people to read the guild description once when they join, and every single guild rule is explained there).

What you are not considering tho is that still more than half the people dont do that (Its like ZoS tells its players they need to read the long privacy policy message before playing the game, sure it is true, but still less than 1% do so if any).

And you still are not answering my question, if a nice kick message can help with all of that, what is the harm in it existing?

We do not need to implement a new system because some members don't do what they are supposed to.

CaliphStudio wrote: »

What you say about their responsibility is true and not my point of debate, my question is, should we give a better experience to those who dont care about guild rules? which include the majority of players in fact. eso is not the court and we are not deciding on whom to blame, we want to help players regardless of all of that, and this extremely simple system allows that.

No we shouldn't implement a new system to give a better experience to guild members who don't take 30 seconds to read the guild rules.

CaliphStudio wrote: »

And as much as I get all of that, I personally never ever read any guild rules, I wouldve not minded being kicked either but my point is, myself and most of my friends even dont care about reading stuff, so what we are talking about is not a matter of the small group of weirdos or slackers, for us to dismiss them so easily.

Then why have rules and kick players based off of those rules? Either don't kick members or whisper them or send an in game mail explaining why they were kicked. But implementing a new system to make it easier for guild leaders to give special consideration to noncompliant members is not reasonable.

spartaxoxo · January 2022

I don't understand why it's a problem to implement QOL features for guild leaders to facilitate their communication with 500 people.

SilverBride · January 2022

I don't see this as a quality of life feature. It is contradictory to write guild rules, post the rules, tell members where they can find the rules, then ask for a new system so they can more easily explain to noncompliant members why they were kicked. Enabling members to remain noncompliant is not the answer, and we certainly don't need a new feature to help with this.

hafgood · January 2022

I see this as something managers will love but actual users will just click through. I've seen this loads of time in the line of work I do, managers like pop ups and messages, staff learn the order to click through them without reading them.

As QoL goes this is actually pretty poor, it gives the manager the ability to tell the staff member why they are being made redundant with a twee little message telling them they can come back anytime they can meet the requirements.

It tells the staff member (the player being kicked) that their manager feels good because he has communicated with the player telling them that if they are a good person and learn the rules they can come back. It makes the manager feel good, makes no difference to the player.

Send me a condescending message like that and I'd never come back to your guild and would tell everyone else to avoid it like the plague.

spartaxoxo · January 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see this as a quality of life feature. It is contradictory to write guild rules, post the rules, tell members where they can find the rules, then ask for a new system so they can more easily explain to noncompliant members why they were kicked. Enabling members to remain noncompliant is not the answer, and we certainly don't need a new feature to help with this.

Giving someone a message after they were kicked in no way enables them to remain non-compliant. They were already kicked. Often these messages go out anyway, so that people know why they were kicked and if given a second shot what they would need to do to be compliant with the rules..

This just makes it easier to manage guilds in ways that are already happening.

spartaxoxo · January 2022

hafgood wrote: »

Send me a condescending message like that and I'd never come back to your guild and would tell everyone else to avoid it like the plague.

I wish someone would tell me they were raging against a guild because the guild leader let them know why there kicked with an automated message that everyone in the game was getting. It would make filling my banlist way easier. I'd never want someone in my guild who couldn't handle something that minor without starting a boycott.

SilverBride · January 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see this as a quality of life feature. It is contradictory to write guild rules, post the rules, tell members where they can find the rules, then ask for a new system so they can more easily explain to noncompliant members why they were kicked. Enabling members to remain noncompliant is not the answer, and we certainly don't need a new feature to help with this.

Giving someone a message after they were kicked in no way enables them to remain non-compliant. They were already kicked. Often these messages go out anyway, so that people know why they were kicked and if given a second shot what they would need to do to be compliant with the rules..

This just makes it easier to manage guilds in ways that are already happening.

It does enable them to remain noncompliant if they are told "We kicked you because you didn't follow the rules, but you can come back if you want." If they can come back without changing whatever they were kicked for why even kick them in the first place?

Aren't there any addons for stuff like this?

hafgood · January 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Send me a condescending message like that and I'd never come back to your guild and would tell everyone else to avoid it like the plague.

I wish someone would tell me they were raging against a guild because the guild leader let them know why there kicked with an automated message that everyone in the game was getting. It would make filling my banlist way easier. I'd never want someone in my guild who couldn't handle something that minor without starting a boycott.

Thats the difference between you and me, and I respect that. I disagree with your point of view of course but that's my perogative as it is yours to disagree with me.

You see it as QOL, I see it as anything but, it's certainly not something I'd implement in a guild I was running.

spartaxoxo · January 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see this as a quality of life feature. It is contradictory to write guild rules, post the rules, tell members where they can find the rules, then ask for a new system so they can more easily explain to noncompliant members why they were kicked. Enabling members to remain noncompliant is not the answer, and we certainly don't need a new feature to help with this.

Giving someone a message after they were kicked in no way enables them to remain non-compliant. They were already kicked. Often these messages go out anyway, so that people know why they were kicked and if given a second shot what they would need to do to be compliant with the rules..

This just makes it easier to manage guilds in ways that are already happening.

It does enable them to remain noncompliant if they are told "We kicked you because you didn't follow the rules, but you can come back if you want." If they can come back without changing whatever they were kicked for why even kick them in the first place?

Aren't there any addons for stuff like this?

They wouldn't be kicking them if it was going to work like that.

It would be more along the lines of

"Hello,

You were removed from the Mega Trader Super Guild for failure to meet donation requirements (or sales reqs on PC, I suppose). While we would love to be able to have you and you're welcome to reapply, all members must meet minimum requirements to remain in the guild. If you would like to discuss this further or believe you were kicked in error, please contact Guild Leader.

Thank you and safe travels adventurer,

Guild Leader."

The typical player upon reading the message will then generally fall into 3 categories.

1) I broke the rules on purpose and know why I am kicked. I'm not gonna bother to read this. Or I simply don't care.

2) WTH, I DID donate?!?! This must be a mistake. *contact guild leader*

3) Oops, I totally forgot. I will do better next time. Let me contact guild lead and see if can get back in.

At which point the guild leader will have a conversation with them about what they must do to come back and remain in good standing with the guild. Typically this involves paying whatever dues they were missing and promising not to make the same error again.

You wouldn't even kick them in first place if you were just trying enable them to break the rules of the guild. It's just to ensure people understand why they were kicked, and if a mistake was made there's a chance to rectify it. Obviously most people will fall under number 1, and they will just delete it without even reading it and that will be that. But number 2 and 3 happens more often than people may realize, and it can often resolve amicably with just a bit of communication. Which is why plenty of guild leads send messages anyway.

spartaxoxo · January 2022

hafgood wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Send me a condescending message like that and I'd never come back to your guild and would tell everyone else to avoid it like the plague.

I wish someone would tell me they were raging against a guild because the guild leader let them know why there kicked with an automated message that everyone in the game was getting. It would make filling my banlist way easier. I'd never want someone in my guild who couldn't handle something that minor without starting a boycott.

Thats the difference between you and me, and I respect that. I disagree with your point of view of course but that's my perogative as it is yours to disagree with me.

You see it as QOL, I see it as anything but, it's certainly not something I'd implement in a guild I was running.

To be clear, it's not so much the leadership style that I would have issue with. Different guilds have different leadership styles and sometimes a person just isn't a good fit for a guild. It doesn't mean the guild or that person are bad.

I have no problem with that. But when someone decides to take it further and tells me why I should never join a particular guild and I was running one (am not currently but have in the past) I would evaluate what they were telling me. If what they were telling me made the guild look bad, then I would try to see if that's true and go from there.

If however, that person told me that the other guild leader was a "condescending" person for using a feature of the game that I myself am using, well then obviously that person would not be a good fit for my guild. I wouldn't want to be the next person they trashed for using the same exact feature, after all. And I certainly wouldn't my guild to get boycotted too for using a game feature.

Which is all anyone would be doing should this be implemented.

SilverBride · January 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It would be more along the lines of

"Hello,

You were removed from the Mega Trader Super Guild for failure to meet donation requirements (or sales reqs on PC, I suppose). While we would love to be able to have you and you're welcome to reapply, all members must meet minimum requirements to remain in the guild. If you would like to discuss this further or believe you were kicked in error, please contact Guild Leader.

Thank you and safe travels adventurer,

Guild Leader."

Wouldn't it be better to have that discussion before kicking the member?

Either way, if the guild leader has to write out an explanation anyway then why not just write it in a mail?