Class Identity. Which classes need the most attention?

Drdeath20 · January 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templar.

2 of the ultimates are inferior in almost every way to world ultimates or just world skills. Laying a blood ritual down allows you to move around and do other healing where templars healing ultimate makes you a motionless statue.

Solar disturbance is forever known and the weaker morph of solar prism. It’s effect that makes it unique is useless in pve and very niche for pvp.

Half of their skills are never worth slotting.

Radiant aura is a back bar skill with front bar buffs. It’s primary function is not effective bcz the minor magicka steal can only be used from 1 target and it’s new effect (increased radius) is nice but more of a token gesture in long boss fights. Players rarely need minor magicka steal in trash mob fight’s especially since the meta armor sets give it passively. In reality ele drain does the same thing and applies an important debuff.

There is never a time to ever slot Explosive charge. The stub from focused charge has much more use. Damaging multiple targets is not a desirable morph as opposed to a almost guaranteed stun.

The other morph of vamps bane (reflective light) that effects multiple targets falls in the same category.

Blazing shield has been weakened soo many times and even lost more power with the nerf/change to burning light.

They might just need to go back to the drawing board with Eclipse and morphs. Same goes for healing ritual and morphs.

Alright I’m losing steam here but the point being that the class is littered by skills not worth slotting bcz the alternatives are just more practical or powerful.

Reflective Light is better than Vamps bane. Vamps bane just gives a small duration increase. Whereas, reflective light applies to multiple targets. Ranged magplars are a thing you know.

How does hitting multiple targets help on anything other than trash mobs?

cro25519 · January 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templar.

2 of the ultimates are inferior in almost every way to world ultimates or just world skills. Laying a blood ritual down allows you to move around and do other healing where templars healing ultimate makes you a motionless statue.

Solar disturbance is forever known and the weaker morph of solar prism. It’s effect that makes it unique is useless in pve and very niche for pvp.

Half of their skills are never worth slotting.

Radiant aura is a back bar skill with front bar buffs. It’s primary function is not effective bcz the minor magicka steal can only be used from 1 target and it’s new effect (increased radius) is nice but more of a token gesture in long boss fights. Players rarely need minor magicka steal in trash mob fight’s especially since the meta armor sets give it passively. In reality ele drain does the same thing and applies an important debuff.

There is never a time to ever slot Explosive charge. The stub from focused charge has much more use. Damaging multiple targets is not a desirable morph as opposed to a almost guaranteed stun.

The other morph of vamps bane (reflective light) that effects multiple targets falls in the same category.

Blazing shield has been weakened soo many times and even lost more power with the nerf/change to burning light.

They might just need to go back to the drawing board with Eclipse and morphs. Same goes for healing ritual and morphs.

Alright I’m losing steam here but the point being that the class is littered by skills not worth slotting bcz the alternatives are just more practical or powerful.

Reflective Light is better than Vamps bane. Vamps bane just gives a small duration increase. Whereas, reflective light applies to multiple targets. Ranged magplars are a thing you know.

It's radius is really really small, like 2.5 meter each. Good skill, but almost no content has mobs that close except maybe burn strat robots (second last boss) in hof.

They just need to increase it's radius IMO and it's definitely not a bad skill.

MindOfTheSwarm · January 2022

cro25519 wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templar.

2 of the ultimates are inferior in almost every way to world ultimates or just world skills. Laying a blood ritual down allows you to move around and do other healing where templars healing ultimate makes you a motionless statue.

Solar disturbance is forever known and the weaker morph of solar prism. It’s effect that makes it unique is useless in pve and very niche for pvp.

Half of their skills are never worth slotting.

Radiant aura is a back bar skill with front bar buffs. It’s primary function is not effective bcz the minor magicka steal can only be used from 1 target and it’s new effect (increased radius) is nice but more of a token gesture in long boss fights. Players rarely need minor magicka steal in trash mob fight’s especially since the meta armor sets give it passively. In reality ele drain does the same thing and applies an important debuff.

There is never a time to ever slot Explosive charge. The stub from focused charge has much more use. Damaging multiple targets is not a desirable morph as opposed to a almost guaranteed stun.

The other morph of vamps bane (reflective light) that effects multiple targets falls in the same category.

Blazing shield has been weakened soo many times and even lost more power with the nerf/change to burning light.

They might just need to go back to the drawing board with Eclipse and morphs. Same goes for healing ritual and morphs.

Alright I’m losing steam here but the point being that the class is littered by skills not worth slotting bcz the alternatives are just more practical or powerful.

Reflective Light is better than Vamps bane. Vamps bane just gives a small duration increase. Whereas, reflective light applies to multiple targets. Ranged magplars are a thing you know.

It's radius is really really small, like 2.5 meter each. Good skill, but almost no content has mobs that close except maybe burn strat robots (second last boss) in hof.

They just need to increase it's radius IMO and it's definitely not a bad skill.

One possibility that I see that could improve it is something like this.

Reflective Light:

Fires a single projectile that splits on impact into 6 projectiles that seek out nearby enemies.

Would improve its AoE capabilities.

Also, I would change Vamps Bane.

Vamps Bane:

Deals 20% more damage to undead and Daedra. This effect cannot be purged by enemy undead and Daedra.

I mean it’s called Vamps Bane right? Surely it should have such utility.

Knockmaker · January 2022

Necromancer. Stamcro any day, in particular.

Strong? Yes. But severely lacks class identity. Especially, if you aim at dealing damage on par with other players. In that case, you usually can't even use any offensive class skills aside from blastbones which is clunky af, don't even get me started about that...

A figure such as Death Knight comes to my mind when I think of stamcro and I think that would make sense, if only the actual utilization of the class skills would match that.

proprio.meb16_ESO · January 2022

I thought we stamcro were almost extinct by now... glad to see someone still loving them enough

ajkb78 · January 2022

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think that in every instance if you decide to use a weapon / world / guild ability, instead of your class ability, because your class ability is inferior (non - class ability does same thing, but way, way better) - then it is a sign that "class identity" is dwindling.

A classic example would be NB's Mass Hysteria vs Fighters Guild's Turn Evil:

Mass Hysteria:
Summon a dark spirit to terrify up to 6 enemies, causing them to cower in fear for 3 seconds.

Turn Evil:
Brand the earth at your location with a rune of protection for 20 seconds. You and your allies in the area gain Minor Protection and Minor Endurance, reducing your damage taken by 5% and increasing your Stamina Recovery by 15%. Upon activation, enemies in the area are feared for 5 seconds.

Fear CC used to be one of the class defining things. If you wanted to have access to it, you had to be a NB, or alternatively you could use fear CC in WW form (WW skill) or equip a gear set that has fear CC effect. That was it. By adding fear CC to Fighters Guild, ZOS not only removed some of the NB's class identity, but they also made a guild skill better than a class skill.
^ That is an equivalent to... lets say adding a "blink" ability (copy - paste Streak, but better with additional effects) to mages guild. There would be less reasons to play certain class (Sorcerer in this case), so Sorc would lose a lot of class identity.

TLDR: Class Identity = a reason to play certain class, other than "flavour".

I disagree, and I actually think there is a danger in making class identity too strong. Where there is a class skill with a similar weapon skill neither should be clearly superior - instead they should present different options, some might be preferable in some situations and others in other situations. I get your point about nightblade but that's one example and nightblade would certainly be my choice for the class that most needs a boost to its class identity. But consider sap essence / pulsar - in that case the skills do offer complementary choices: sap essence gives the healing, pulsar gives the elemental effect (and therefore generally more raw damage if you're looking for an optimised trash setup). Or force shock gives a viable alternative to class spammables, maybe slightly lower damage than class spammables but the interrupt can be op in some situations and the 3-element damage is perfect for an EC buff DD.
In answer to the original question, nightblade. They don't really have a great class identity, too many of the individual skills feel underwhelming and the thing where relentless focus gives a buff after 5 light attacks just feels bad on a class that should be about stealth and instant assassination. I know MMOs are about prolonged fights but the 'feel' of an assassin class should be about winding up to deliver one overpowering blow, not hammering away for ages at an enemy.