Help, Advice needed regarding Cyrodiil no cp no proc campaign

xiphactinus · January 2022

Hi everyone.

I've been playing the game for nearly a year now and in the last week have decided to try the no cp no proc ravenwatch campaign in Cyrodiil. I'll list my stats etc then explain the situation as I see it.

Wood elf Stam DK
unbuffed stats

max mag 17346
max health 24160
max stam 31503

weapon dmg 3585
weapon crit 21%
Weapon penetration 17016
spell and weapon resistance 18520 (buffed 24766)

I'm running 5 pieces of heartland conqueror 4 heavy reinforced and 1 light (belt) reinforced
1 piece medium Kraghs for the pen
1 piece medium velidreth for the dmg

hundings jewels and tools

two handed maul, sharpened, poison enchant
bow back bar infused weapon dmg

neck wpn dmg bloodthirsty
ring1 wpn dmg bloodthirsty
ring 2 wpn dmg bloodthirsty

All the armour enchants are stam.

front bar, stampede, dizzy swing, executioner, green dragon blood, igneous shield ULT barrier
back bar, lethal arrow, acid spray, igneous weapons, resolving vigor, volatile armour, ULT ferocious leap

I have lots of abilities ready to be slotted for situational circumstances, What is above is just my general walkabout set up. Hundings is also going to be replaced by marksman crest but I'm still grinding for the amulet. Would Spriggans be better to push pen closer to 20k?

Ok, First off I'm getting kills...plenty of them. I'll also repeat this is the no cp no proc campaign.
Currently encountering sorcs and DK's that are literally impossible to damage and can heal in a split second from 5/10% health to full instantly. One battle I'm killing them in 4 lethal arrows quickly and next instance 6 of us can't even damage the same player. I'm also having my stamina and magicka drained instantly too, like from 80% to 0 instantly after taking damage. I'm hitting all my shields, buffs and dropping barrier and still I'm dead in 2 seconds flat, Blocking does not work and neither does any of my stuns.

I'm a dragon knight and I wish I had those shields and heals, It only happens fighting one specific group of people and I'm at a loss at what I'm doing wrong because its like a switch gets flicked and we can kill them and vice versa. My abilities are firing off fine and in a one to one or one v two I can hold my own. Maybe I'm clueless, I don't know but it's seriously putting me off pvp. Can anyone shed some light on this or help me with my build.

I have not levelled up all of my skills yet and will be swapping bit about as I find my feet. Any input/advice would be appreciated.

However I am also open to the idea that I may be just a terrible player....

vesselwiththepestle · January 2022

You don't need pen on armor, but use Corrosive armor as Ulti.

Get a mythic item into your build, like Gaze of Sithis. Yes, it works. Consider Pariah + Vampire Stage 3. Run swift jewelry.

You are missing the heal from Rally (2h skill).

Kartalin · January 2022

Agree with @vesselwiththepestle , Gaze of Sithis + Vamp stage 3 + pariah is super tanky, and you don't even need to worry about blocking. Also I noticed your jewelry is bloodthirsty, which on stam dk is not bad I guess. I feel like you might try a couple swift there to boost your ability to position/reposition. DKs and Templar are pretty slow classes innately so a little speed always helps I feel.

xDeusEJRx · January 2022

My suggestions would be maybe lose some bow abilities and use a heal to replace it like Cauterize. I don't think you need acid spray, lethal arrow, and dizzying swing all at the same time. It's basically having 3 spammables at once, could drop maybe acid spray for cauterize for active healing in a fight. Could also considering running less penetration as well, opting maybe for more WD or resistances. If sorcerers are your problem, you honestly don't need 17k pen, especially in no CP against sorcs. Their defenses are crap, probably over-penning(remember penetration only makes your target mitigate less damage, at a certain point your damage output is dependent on weapon damage). I think 11k pen in no cp is a decent threshold in no cp especially since no one has any defense CP. Might suck fighting pariah players, but chances are they don't have insane damage either since they're specc'd into defense.

xiphactinus · January 2022

Thanks for the advice, So Pariah on the body?

Is it worth going for 1,1,5 for the undaunted/fighters guild passives? Some of the folk we've been fighting just don't take damage or very little but I get hit a couple of times and I'm dead. I just swapped out some armour for FB and the extra armour made no difference at all. They walk through all our shields including barrier and its almost as if they have unlimited stamina and magicka. I'm never going to learn how to pvp like this as everything I'm trying ends the same, my shields don't work and stuns don't work and my stam and magicka gets drained to zero after I take damage. I'm not even that bothered about dying but I don't have an answer for them at all when they have that kind of heal and defense, they hit like trucks too. Didn't think you could have it all but apparently this is not the case.

vesselwiththepestle · January 2022

xiphactinus wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, So Pariah on the body?

I personally would recommend to have several medium pieces, so you would play Pariah for examples 3 pieces on body, 2 on weapons and then combine with a medium 5-piece (and 2 different monster set pieces or 1 monster set piece + 1 gaze of sithis/mythic item).

Those players you describe probably have strong combos and are focusing you really good. It's not easy to tank that, you will need to play with speed, line of sight etc. and you shouldn't fight players like that alone. Even when you play with friends against them, you will need to realize when they focus you really fast to get into defense mode, which often might include retreating to a safer position to get ressources back up. Having a tanky build helps, but then it's just a lot of "L2P". You might try to whisper some of those players if they want to duel you in a 1v1, that would maybe make it easier to learn how to fight them.

Thraben · January 2022

xiphactinus wrote: »

Hi everyone.

I've been playing the game for nearly a year now and in the last week have decided to try the no cp no proc ravenwatch campaign in Cyrodiil. I'll list my stats etc then explain the situation as I see it.

Wood elf Stam DK
unbuffed stats

max mag 17346
max health 24160
max stam 31503

weapon dmg 3585
weapon crit 21%
Weapon penetration 17016
spell and weapon resistance 18520 (buffed 24766)

All the armour enchants are stam.

front bar, stampede, dizzy swing, executioner, green dragon blood, igneous shield ULT barrier
back bar, lethal arrow, acid spray, igneous weapons, resolving vigor, volatile armour, ULT ferocious leap

I have lots of abilities ready to be slotted for situational circumstances, What is above is just my general walkabout set up. Hundings is also going to be replaced by marksman crest but I'm still grinding for the amulet. Would Spriggans be better to push pen closer to 20k?

Ok, First off I'm getting kills...plenty of them. I'll also repeat this is the no cp no proc campaign.
Currently encountering sorcs and DK's that are literally impossible to damage and can heal in a split second from 5/10% health to full instantly. One battle I'm killing them in 4 lethal arrows quickly and next instance 6 of us can't even damage the same player. I'm also having my stamina and magicka drained instantly too, like from 80% to 0 instantly after taking damage.

However I am also open to the idea that I may be just a terrible player....

You are too squishy for a StamDK with those stats. Almost every StamDK is running 35k+ health with Malacath's Band of Brutality. Still, you were moderately succesful, so you are definitely not a bad player.

Here a tipp if you want to keep your current (ranged, then melee for Executioner) playstyle:

Have you tried weaving a ranged skill with Silver Shards? I would't even rule out that a Heavy (DK- improved) Firestaff attack followed up by a Silver Shard at the end of the animation out-damages Lethal Arrow.

Armor enchants should be tristat.

I don't understand why you have Barrier as an Ultimate. Ferocious Leap already fullfills that role for half the cost. More usual would be Corrosive Armor as an offensive Ultimate.

xiphactinus · January 2022

Thank you all for the advice, It is much appreciated. Need to do some farming now but not in a hurry. Yeah I'm a real pita already at range and get focused quite heavily when engaging the enemy. Had some success in melee range but weak when going up against multiple targets but I don't do too bad 1 v 1. Makes sense to have more health, I made up a set of Pariah body pieces and ended up with 32720k resists buffed and went looking for trouble...MUCH better thank you!

Slotted magma and I can kinda see where this is all going now. Just needed a nudge forwards.

For the covenant!

OBJnoob · January 2022

Looks like you’re already pretty satisfied with your changes so… I guess I’m just here mostly to express surprise at some of the answers. My main is a stamdk and I exclusively play no proc… I even use my no proc setup for battlegrounds because I’m lazy and it works fine.

Like somebody else said… I agree you have too many spammables. It’s kinda sad to say but I think most pvp builds use their skill slots for survivability and utility… and only have 3 or 4 damaging abilities. Total. Including ultimates. 1 spammable/dot or whatever for pressure, and a 3 skill kill combo that includes a damaging skill that also stuns. This’ll mean you probably want to use one bar almost exclusively as a buff bar. I use sword n shield mostly but have nothing bad to say about bow.

Like somebody else said… definitely use cauterize I think you’ll like it. And maybe don’t use green dragon blood? I won’t say it’s bad but I don’t think most people use it… and again you want to streamline skill usage. Rally, vigor, and cauterize should do the job with the help of igneous shield.

What I confess to be a little confused about is the pariah and heavy armor talk. In no proc I find sustain to be a bit difficult I can’t imagine wearing a heavy armor purely defensive set. I wear 5 medium on my dk and I use the medium armor skill shuffle. The 20% reduction in aoe damage (which will be every ultimate you get hit with in any engagement bigger than 5v5, warden beetles, Snd Templar jabs just to name a few,) plus the brief snare ability which helps you avoid some direct damage as well….. wait what was I saying? Oh yeah shuffle is awesome.

Anyway… my bars look like this: 2h - Poison breath, (flex spot either poison claw for pressure and sustain, revealing flare for major protection, ) rally, dizzy, execution. Dragon leap ulti.
Sword n shield - hardened armor, shuffle, vigor, igneous shield, cauterize. Psijic ulti temporal guard for passive minor protection

And uh, like somebody else said, you’re probably over penetrating. Dragon knights are fairly unique in that we can give ourselves minor brutality so we benefit more from weapon damage than other people. Which closes the gap between the benefits of dmg -v- pen and adds to our healing power. I use igneous shield to give myself this buff. Igneous shield also returns stamina every 4 seconds I think due to class passives… and applying the poison status effect also returns stam to us. So if your sustain gets in a pinch you can use the venom claw as a spammable and apply igneous every 4 seconds until your magic runs out… in which case hopefully you now have a potion or an ultimate ready!

xiphactinus · January 2022

@OBJnoob

Lots to think about there. I'm levelling up the spam abilities just so I have options to swap out. I have not settled yet on anything. I prefer medium armour but I figured go heavy to start with just for that extra protection and I'm already missing having medium on. Kinda trying to get used to the abilities. Still dying a lot but staying alive longer and giving almost as good as I get. I've been in Cyrodiil a week if that and enjoying way more than I thought I would. I'm getting most of my kills with the bow. I've mained a sorc for almost year so it was time for a change. One thing that struck me was the movement speed of my opponents... I will have to address that. Testing out poisons tomorrow. Silver leash has been quite useful for pulling them in but I'm just lacking the damage to finish them off quickly and they are quite difficult to stun. It's been luckily more fun than frustrating but the healing thing from like 10% to 100% in an instant is a real kicker as by that time I am out of all resources and I am killed...I just don't know how they can heal like that and it's like they have infinite sustain. However though on the odd occasion that I'm paying attention I am able to get more kills in melee range and have avenged many of my earlier deaths, Plus I'm being specifically targeted which imo means I'm doing something right. I have a lot of experimentation to do, Thank you. I think with some of the points/suggestions you have made I'm well on my way now.

schmistertyler · January 2022

i see everyone advising you to get better health sustain and no suggestions on how to kill people using hybrid DPS build that can heal so fast it appears you do no damage. Surely replacing DPS skills with heals will not increase your ability to kill said player. That is because PvP is broken in this game right now may as well not play unless you want to fight the same guy for 20 minutes straight not being able to kill each other if you both know what your doing.

OBJnoob · January 2022

We’re talking open world not a duel… you don’t have to fight anyone for 20 minutes if you don’t want to. Like where do you even go to 1v1? I wish, lol

OBJnoob · January 2022

P.s. @xiphactinus re reading some of the thread, I noticed you don’t have anything to give major breach for more penetration. Swapping one of your “spammables” with noxious breath will definitely give you more damage. Also, since you’re using a bow on one bar, and can use ferocious leap on the other… I tend to not use/need a gap closer on my dk.

xiphactinus · January 2022

OBJnoob wrote: »

P.s. @xiphactinus re reading some of the thread, I noticed you don’t have anything to give major breach for more penetration. Swapping one of your “spammables” with noxious breath will definitely give you more damage. Also, since you’re using a bow on one bar, and can use ferocious leap on the other… I tend to not use/need a gap closer on my dk.

I have Noxious breath slotted. Always liked Razor Caltrops for breach on my stam builds. I've made up some Pariah jewels and Bow, Ran out of transmutes...so right about now cursing the grind which I can't repeat here. Took him out for a spin and squishy as hell with medium armour on but it's playable and only in purple. Flat armour stats have dropped to 18k unbuffed, 24k buffed plus I guess what I get from Pariah as I lose health which will reach the resist cap? Once I've found a set for the body I like it'll get golded and I'll gain a little bit more obviously. Losing the heavy armour is noticeable in both respects as I've gained weapon damage and I seem a bit easier to damage but I can see with the things you have suggested there is quite a bit of mitigation to stack over to compensate in one way or another. There is just one thing left to address and that is my health pool, its sitting at around 22/23k and I cannot seem to find a craftable set in that will boost my health stats significantly. Even if I exclusively use health glyphs it won't reach anywhere near what others have suggested so I will try changing my mundus stone from serpent to the health one and see what I can juggle about. Tbh I was doing ok with 30k health and in answer to the other poster, Fights do not last that long where I am unless it's a siege. Most of the 1 v 1 I have won have been over in less than 30 seconds. They tend to go on longer if there are more of us and we've had some epic battles in the last few days with 4 against 6/7 enemies. Only problem I'm seeing is after being killed a few times folk get upset and run away or get reinforcements and I can't take on 15 of them and win. I'm stuck at the moment though because I just have no crafting mats left, So everything except the weapons is either blue or purple. No purple jewellery mats left, 90k gold to my name. Meh. I'm thinking deadly might work on the body...I dunno sometimes there’s just too much choice and it ruins everything.

Necrotech_Master · January 2022

caltrops is decent as a dps tool for pve, or or choke points in pvp, but overall its pretty hard to use it to good effect in pvp especially in open area

its too easy to avoid/get out of

noxious breath on the other hand applies the dot and breach to the enemy, so they would have to purge it to remove the effect, or disengage from you long enough for it to wear out

for your health being at 22-23k, is that with or without food? generally you will always want to run a food that has the effect of boosting max hp in pvp (ideally 2nd effect is boosting your max stamina)

i primarily use a stam NB in pvp, and with food im sitting at almost 28k hp, so if 22-23k hp is your base, then you should be fine once you add the food on top of that

xiphactinus · January 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

caltrops is decent as a dps tool for pve, or or choke points in pvp, but overall its pretty hard to use it to good effect in pvp especially in open area

its too easy to avoid/get out of

noxious breath on the other hand applies the dot and breach to the enemy, so they would have to purge it to remove the effect, or disengage from you long enough for it to wear out

for your health being at 22-23k, is that with or without food? generally you will always want to run a food that has the effect of boosting max hp in pvp (ideally 2nd effect is boosting your max stamina)

i primarily use a stam NB in pvp, and with food im sitting at almost 28k hp, so if 22-23k hp is your base, then you should be fine once you add the food on top of that

Health is sitting at 25k with food, It felt better at 30k for sure so will be sorting that out, I'm liking the Pariah though so it gives me a little wiggle room to experiment on the body with medium armour. Finally got all my passives and abilities levelled up and to be fair it feels already like a different character, Hitting much harder and staying alive much longer. Racking up the kills with the bow still and it would seem by the lack of mercy given I am having a positive effect on the battlefield

Really enjoying it. I have razor caltrops for my stamsorc and it pairs so well with arrow barrage when I'm on my own in dungeons.